Liquidspacehead

Slowly getting into the light touring world I LOVE my salsa casseroll, so does my wife. So much so that she is asking me for my bike! I want to upgrade in order to pass on my wheels... which will not be east but I want to know out of the two which the people prefer! I understand the differences but I mostly commute right now. With bike camping on weekends and touring in the near future. I also live in a mountainous area so the commute is not easy!

MarcusT

Check out these previous threads


https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...marrakesh.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...l#post20668237

sumgy

Have a look at the Surly Midnight Special too.

bakerjw

Even though they are owned by the same company, I'd go with the Surly. I've never liked Salsa for some reason.

Liquidspacehead

Actually I am looking heavily at the Salsa Journeyman right now! I like the shifters better, a little cheaper than either of the other two bikes and it has all I need! Any thoughts on the journeyman?

pdlamb

After riding the three bikes you've mentioned, which one(s) make you think, I'd like to ride more on that one?

indyfabz

Call me a retrogrouch, but I want a triple on a bike for fully loaded touring because I ride in mountainous/hilly terrain and I hate being caught between gears. But if you don't see yourself doing that, that 30x34 low gear might be enough. (I am currently running a 24x34 low.)

bakerjw

Not to derail the thread, but like you, I hate getting caught between gears as well which is one reason why I will likely never go to a 1x drivetrain.
I've ridden South out of Banff 4 consecutive years in a row now with loaded bikes on pavement, gravel and trails. This last time was on a mountain tandem with my wife. I typically run 2x10 drivetrains with 24/38 up front and 11-36 in the back which gives real decent spacing on the ratios. For our tandem, I dropped the front down to 22/36 which gives a high end of about 26MPH at 90 cadence. Our road tandem does have a triple though.

indyfabz

Not a derailment at all. It's an important consideration when choosing a bike you might tour on. So many "adventure bikes" are now doing 1x and 2x. I think people who haven't toured need to give careful thought to gearing. Does it match the terrain they expect to ride? Might they one day decide to tour in mountainous areas. What sort of load are they going to be carrying over time. Wheel strength is another important consideration.

sumgy

That is because you have bigger gears out back though isn't it?
Triples often saw duplication of gears, which is something that 2x and 1x with wider range cassettes works to overcome.

indyfabz

Preferring lower gears is like preferring to ride in cooler temps with layers as opposed to hot weather. You can always put on and take off layers. Decency laws prevent you from stripping down too much when it's really hot out.

And while there may be an overlap here and there, I would rather have, say, 24 gears to chose from in a 3x9 setup than 10 or 11 gears in a 1x setup (regardless of what the low end is), especially when climbing a 15 mile, relatively rough, unpaved pass with varying grades and a ruling grade of 9%.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30007721?beta=false

Hiro11

The Surly is a very tried and true design. The Marrakesh is more modern, but not necessarily "better". Personally, I like the more mountain-bikey / adventure touring type bikes here. I feel they're more versatile. There are lots of options, some of which have already been mentioned. I'll also throw in the very cool All City Gorilla Monsoon and new Marin bikes like the Lombard, Gestalt or Four Corners, all of which are great designs with varying degrees of trail-worthiness.

indyfabz

Four Corners chain stay length is either 432 mm for x-small and small or 450 mm for the largest sizes. By contrast, the LHT is 460 mm across all sizes. If you are going to be using rear panniers, short stays could raise heel strike issues. If you are going to be using frame bags, etc., it's not a problem. As I note above, there are many things to consider when choosing a bike that will be well suited for how and where you plan to tour.

Caber Guy

Loving mine so far, although the Claris drivetrain is a touch finicky. Great for puttering around pretty much anywhere and everywhere!

greatscott

I looked at all those bikes that Marcus T mentioned and more when I was looking to buy a touring bike, and after a process of elimination and 6 months of making sure, I settled for a Masi Giramondo 700c. I just got the bike about 3 weeks ago but so far it's been a fantastic bike. There are some issues with the original factory equipped tires, they are Kenda Drumlin KS tires, very heavy tires at 1600 grams a piece, I will use them for the time being but I will change them to Schwalbe Marathon Supreme that have about the same puncture resistance but weigh only 500 grams a piece, that's a huge weight difference. The Masi weighs 28 pounds with those Kenda tires, switching means the bike would drop to 24 pounds which would make it one of the lighter touring bikes. Also, though this point is easy to do afterwards, but the Masi came with the lowest gear ratios of any of the other bikes.

My second place bike was the Kona Sutra, it's a very nice bike, but it weighs as much as the Masi however you can't decrease it much at all since it comes with the Marathon Supreme tires! Plus Kona uses aluminum pannier racks instead of steel Tubus racks on the Masi that are renown for being the best, aluminum racks are known for cracking at welds under the weight of gear over time. Kona comes with fenders whereas the Masi does not, but top of the line plastic fenders cost under $60, and you can get them as low as $35 for full coverage fenders. Also, if I remember correctly, the Masi is the only one that comes with mechanical disk brakes which are much more field serviceable and friendly than hydraulic disk brakes, they use a dual piston brake, plus they were the only one that put a larger 180 mm rotor on the front (160 on the rear) whereas everyone else used 160 front and rear, since most of the stopping force is on the front the 180 is a better size rotor to have.

Anyway Google the Masi Giramondo 700c and see what you think; at the end of the day you have to find a bike that fits your needs, the Masi fit all my needs.