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Help identify Richard Sachs bike

Old 10-07-19, 03:28 PM
  #1  
pedilato
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Help identify Richard Sachs bike

hello bikeworld!

Although a day before I have heard nothing regarding Richard Sachs, just few hours ago I had the pleasure to arrive home riding on a Richard Sachs ( I think '80s) that now happens to be mine after a great deal that I had or I hope that I had!!!

As I mention above I don't have a clue regarding those bikes but I am willing to search.

What can I say for the moment is:

1. Definitely all the components are not original....I don't know even regarding the frame if its original...
2. Its not one of the most exotic Richards bikes for sure
3. There is quite a few non perfect points
4. I need help to figure out what is happening on this bike
5. The bike rides super great, although it needs maintenance

I tryed to post some photos but I am not allowed. If anyone want to post for me I can sent by email.

I will be delightful if any of you can give me your light on this trip.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by pedilato; 10-07-19 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 10-07-19, 04:45 PM
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Never encountered a Sachs that was not perfect. Are you sure it is a Richard Sachs frame?
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Old 10-07-19, 04:56 PM
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You can try to contact Richie Sachs via his website: richardsachs.com

E-mail some pictures to him: at the very least, a picture of the whole bike from the drivetrain side and a picture of the serial number.
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Old 10-07-19, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pedilato View Post

I tryed to post some photos but I am not allowed. If anyone want to post for me I can sent by email.

I will be delightful if any of you can give me your light on this trip.

Thanks in advance.
You could reach the magical 10 posts by welcoming new members, and participating in a few other threads of interest.

https://www.bikeforums.net/introductions/
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Last edited by Homebrew01; 10-07-19 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 10-08-19, 01:55 AM
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Thanks Trakhak,

I already sent him some pictures and guess what....
.....Its not his creation

I was almost sure about it, but the excitement of the possibility to own a Richard Sachs bike didn't allow me to see clearly.
So I spent 150Euro for just another bike.
Although when I try the bike I find that it rides super ok. Maybe just the idea of ridding a Richards bike makes me feel like that....

One way or an other I will post the pictures in order to prevent others to be stupid as I was!
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Old 10-08-19, 01:56 AM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Never encountered a Sachs that was not perfect. Are you sure it is a Richard Sachs frame?
No its not the one!
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Old 10-08-19, 02:01 AM
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Thanks Homebrew01

I will follow your advices!
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Old 10-08-19, 02:12 AM
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and the photos....










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Old 10-08-19, 04:31 AM
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Someone went to a lot of trouble trying to turn that pig's ear into a silk purse.
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Old 10-08-19, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pedilato View Post
and the photos....










Ugh. What were you thinking? At least it was only 150 euros, so...ride it and learn your lesson.
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Old 10-08-19, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Someone went to a lot of trouble trying to turn that pig's ear into a silk purse.
and someone had to pay him....this one was me
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Old 10-08-19, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
Ugh. What were you thinking? At least it was only 150 euros, so...ride it and learn your lesson.
Yes, probably I was not thinking....I was dreaming
But 150 euros to feel for few hours that I own a dream bike and to exchange few nice emails with Mr. Richie it sounds expensive but I really liked it and definitely I learn my lesson....who knows what the future will bring....
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Old 10-08-19, 10:20 AM
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Blatant fraud by the seller.
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Old 10-08-19, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Blatant fraud by the seller.
It's pretty lousy thievery, though. If you're going to go through the trouble of forging something, you'd think you'd want to make a decent profit.

Seems a bit elaborate for 150 euros. Once you have to find a slightly plausible frame, paint it, put some parts on it, and then find a buyer, the hourly wage on this has got to be pretty poor.

Are the Sachs stamped parts for real? Anyone recognize that frame? I think the story of the forged bike is possibly interesting. Who would actually do this and why?
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Old 10-08-19, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
It's pretty lousy thievery, though. If you're going to go through the trouble of forging something, you'd think you'd want to make a decent profit.

Seems a bit elaborate for 150 euros. Once you have to find a slightly plausible frame, paint it, put some parts on it, and then find a buyer, the hourly wage on this has got to be pretty poor.

Are the Sachs stamped parts for real? Anyone recognize that frame? I think the story of the forged bike is possibly interesting. Who would actually do this and why?
The frame looks like every other low level, road frame. A notch or 2 above department store.
Could have been done as a joke, but selling it that way is wrong.
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Old 10-08-19, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Are the Sachs stamped parts for real? Anyone recognize that frame? I think the story of the forged bike is possibly interesting. Who would actually do this and why?
There was such a thing as a Sachs Huret FD. No relationship to Richard Sachs.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-any-good.html

Sachs Huret RD:



The color scheme and decals appear to be "inspired" by this:

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Old 10-08-19, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Who would actually do this and why?

Lots of BF members fake other bikes, quite elaborately too.
And those fake bikes get lots of positive kudos from some Forum members.
Many of us, however, frown on the practice.

Making cheaper bikes look like upscale models is forgery.
"But I'll never sell it" = a poor excuse for forgery.
Even exceptionally good forgeries should be verboten.

@pedilato - it's a nice looking english bike. Ride it and enjoy it. You paid a small price and got a bicycle and a lesson worth remembering.

Last edited by Wildwood; 10-08-19 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 10-08-19, 12:25 PM
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No offense, but lol at this bike.
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Old 10-08-19, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
The frame looks like every other low level, road frame. A notch or 2 above department store.
Could have been done as a joke, but selling it that way is wrong.
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
There was such a thing as a Sachs Huret FD. No relationship to Richard Sachs.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-any-good.html

Sachs Huret RD:



The color scheme and decals appear to be "inspired" by this:

Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Lots of BF members fake other bikes, quite elaborately too.
And those fake bikes get lots of positive kudos from some Forum members.
Many of us, however, frown on the practice.

Making cheaper bikes look like upscale models is forgery.
"But I'll never sell it" = a poor excuse for forgery.
Even exceptionally good forgeries should be verboten.
I know next to nothing about classic bikes so thanks for the info! In general, I just have a bit of a fascination with forgers as it really is at the intersection of art and crime.

I think you guys have it right--this is too much work to create something that could only be sold for 150 Euros, so it probably was made for some other reason than profit, but no question selling it as authentic is wrong, whether legal or not.

@Wildwood , I think it's practice in other fields to label reproductions indelibly (if inconspicuously) as reproductions to prevent these dishonest sales. I also think with mechanical things, the line between restorations and reproductions tends to get rather blurry. I'm obviously not saying there's anything blurry in this particular case, this is an out and out fake.
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Old 10-08-19, 02:46 PM
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Guys the seller he didn't sold a Richard Sachs bike. He didn't mention that name at all.

He was selling a "vintage racing bike" that he almost never used. He said that he bought it 6 years ago from an other guy and thats all.

It was me the stupid that I was thinking that I can get a dream bike on this price from someone that doesn't know what he sells.

I was so excited that even when I saw it in real life I didn't want to accept that was not real. I ride the bike and I liked how I felt, so I bought it.

Even in legal terms the seller doesn't have any guilt.


This weekend I will try to refresh it a bit and to fix it on my preferences and I will start to ride it.

I will post a list with the components, together with my ride experience.


Thank you all for your replies.
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Old 10-08-19, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I know next to nothing about classic bikes so thanks for the info! In general, I just have a bit of a fascination with forgers as it really is at the intersection of art and crime.
A couple of threads in C&V of bikes stripped, sometimes modified, re-painted, decals, upscale components - for creating something the frame is not.

I don't care the legality - I find it a bit twisted that every forger has their personal alibi to justify their actions.
And I'm not vilifying the people - many alibis are so heartwarming one can feel sympathy for their misplaced motivations.


Want a specific bike? Fine. Then wait/search to find it, but don't create it from another and ride or sell a phony.
JMHO
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Old 10-08-19, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
A couple of threads in C&V of bikes stripped, sometimes modified, re-painted, decals, upscale components - for creating something the frame is not.

I don't care the legality - I find it a bit twisted that every forger has their personal alibi to justify their actions.
And I'm not vilifying the people - many alibis are so heartwarming one can feel sympathy for their misplaced motivations.


Want a specific bike? Fine. Then wait/search to find it, but don't create it from another and ride or sell a phony.
JMHO
Riding the phony is kind of funny to me because kind of pitiful. Selling one is definitely immoral, probably illegal just from the trademark end of things as well.
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Old 10-08-19, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pedilato View Post
Guys the seller he didn't sold a Richard Sachs bike. He didn't mention that name at all.

He was selling a "vintage racing bike" that he almost never used.

Even in legal terms the seller doesn't have any guilt.


This weekend I will try to refresh it a bit and to fix it on my preferences and I will start to ride it.

I will post a list with the components, together with my ride experience.


Thank you all for your replies.
Yes. We understand, no guilt on any side.

Just an occasional subject in the Classic & Vintage forum (re-labeling frames, mostly to upscale brands).

And I misspoke above saying, 'Lots of BF members...' - when the fact is only a few members have posted - and for varying personal reasons - and some are quite superb in their copying/painting/component details.

But a bad practice.
Not the restoring,... just labeling something it never was and never will be.
Except in an alibi addled mind, regardless of the illogic.

And again, just my humble opinion - your mileage may vary.
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Old 10-09-19, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Yes. We understand, no guilt on any side.

Just an occasional subject in the Classic & Vintage forum (re-labeling frames, mostly to upscale brands).

And I misspoke above saying, 'Lots of BF members...' - when the fact is only a few members have posted - and for varying personal reasons - and some are quite superb in their copying/painting/component details.

But a bad practice.
Not the restoring,... just labeling something it never was and never will be.
Except in an alibi addled mind, regardless of the illogic.

And again, just my humble opinion - your mileage may vary.
I think if there's a homage intended, the better practice would be to do a decal that indicates that -- e.g., make a pun of the brand's name or something.

It is something of an insult to Mr. Sachs' artistry to slap his name on something he'd be embarrassed by.
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Old 10-09-19, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I think if there's a homage intended, the better practice would be to do a decal that indicates that -- e.g., make a pun of the brand's name or something.

It is something of an insult to Mr. Sachs' artistry to slap his name on something he'd be embarrassed by.
I agree completely.

I felt also really embarrassed when I mail to Mr. Richie to ask if this was his creation and he answer me "I didn't make this"

So I feel the need to apologize to Mr Richard Sachs in public from my ignorance and I can assure him that ASAP I will make clear and permanent on the frame of this bike that its an imitation
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