Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Removing 3 Sturmey-Archer speed hub rebuild

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Removing 3 Sturmey-Archer speed hub rebuild

Old 03-20-20, 03:49 PM
  #1  
WGB
WGB
Thread Starter
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 1,641

Bikes: League Fuji, Ross Aristocrat and soon to be a Takara Tribute

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 46 Posts
Removing 3 Sturmey-Archer speed hub rebuild

I was given two early 70's Raleigh Sports





They have seriously rusted rims and I can't see trying to save the rims but wanted to see if the internal hubs are worth saving and rebuilding. I've never taken apart one of these but there are a lot of how to videos available. Problem is all the videos start with the hubs already free from their rims.

I'm pretty sure that it's okay to simply cut out a Sturmey Archer hub (unlike a hub with a cassette or freewheel attached) but wanted to check first.

Do I need to leave the hubs attached to the rims to start the dismantle process?





WGB is offline  
Old 03-20-20, 04:28 PM
  #2  
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 7,495
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 644 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 84 Posts
You definitely want to unscrew the ball ring before you cut the spokes. After that, no issues.
It can be done with a bare hub. I have done it numerous times, but it is way easier when it is still in the wheel.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Likes For Dan Burkhart:
Old 03-20-20, 04:42 PM
  #3  
WGB
WGB
Thread Starter
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 1,641

Bikes: League Fuji, Ross Aristocrat and soon to be a Takara Tribute

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 46 Posts
Thanks Dan.

I'm letting the bikes sit with a little dab of PB Blaster on every bolt anyway. They will be my entertainment next week.
WGB is offline  
Old 03-20-20, 04:56 PM
  #4  
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 7,108

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1001 Post(s)
Liked 348 Times in 263 Posts
Originally Posted by WGB View Post
I was given two early 70's Raleigh Sports
They have seriously rusted rims and I can't see trying to save the rims
That'll buff right out!
dsbrantjr is offline  
Old 03-20-20, 06:25 PM
  #5  
Gresp15C
Senior Member
 
Gresp15C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,947
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 748 Post(s)
Liked 157 Times in 118 Posts
A master might be able to get a bare hub apart, but I was unable to. I ended up temporarily building it onto a rim so I could get it apart. I clamped a portion of the rim down to my workbench with a board and C clamp, which gave me good purchase for loosening the ring.

Agreed about giving it some penetrating oil and letting it sit for a while before starting the project. Meanwhile, you can undertake the project of finding 40 spoke rims. In my experience, the hub can look horrible on the outside and be practically like new on the inside.
Gresp15C is offline  
Old 03-22-20, 07:24 AM
  #6  
thumpism 
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 5,685

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Trek 510 city build, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Liked 346 Times in 248 Posts
Your bikes might be old enough to have 40 spoke rear wheels. My Sportses are slightly newer and have 36. If you cut the hubs out it might be difficult to find more 40 hole rims. If you have a bench vise it helps when disassembling the hub; holds it steady while you use a hammer and punch to loosen the ball ring.

If you're hung up on the looks of the rims, try cleaning them up first before you decide to cut them loose. That rust might not be too serious.
thumpism is offline  
Old 03-22-20, 08:20 AM
  #7  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 6,199

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1093 Post(s)
Liked 461 Times in 323 Posts
Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Your bikes might be old enough to have 40 spoke rear wheels. My Sportses are slightly newer and have 36. If you cut the hubs out it might be difficult to find more 40 hole rims.
The Sun CR-18 is a frequently used upgrade rim in 40 hole for this application if you're planning on the original 26 X 1 3/8 size.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62891

I'd also second the try cleaning up first. You'd be surprised how well some old chrome cleans up. In fact pitting on the brake surfaces might actually be an upgrade in braking performance
dedhed is offline  
Likes For dedhed:
Old 03-22-20, 08:24 AM
  #8  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 6,199

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1093 Post(s)
Liked 461 Times in 323 Posts
Also be aware a number of fasteners on those bikes will be Whitworth, not SAE or Metric. Adjustable wrench or "close enough" 6 pt socket normally works.
dedhed is offline  
Old 03-22-20, 03:43 PM
  #9  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 38,790

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 467 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6310 Post(s)
Liked 843 Times in 553 Posts
Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
The Sun CR-18 is a frequently used upgrade rim in 40 hole for this application if you're planning on the original 26 X 1 3/8 size.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62891

I'd also second the try cleaning up first. You'd be surprised how well some old chrome cleans up. In fact pitting on the brake surfaces might actually be an upgrade in braking performance
No joke. My 1962 Rudge has lost some chrome from its rims, and it's true that it has improved braking a lot. I don't plan to replace the rims.

The CR-18 rim is an excellent rim, but do try to make the steel rims work first. You might succeed.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 03-22-20, 05:19 PM
  #10  
WGB
WGB
Thread Starter
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 1,641

Bikes: League Fuji, Ross Aristocrat and soon to be a Takara Tribute

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 46 Posts
I'm in no rush. No Co-op means no cotter press. Able to loosen all the lock nuts on the pins on the cotters but three of the four wouldn't move with a very light tap of the hammer. I don't want to have to cut them out so trying the PB route again. As soon as the rain stops and it warms up I shall be in the backyard puttering away on them with a can of ale. Rims look seriously bad but won't cost much to try and save them.
WGB is offline  
Old 03-22-20, 05:36 PM
  #11  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 6,199

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1093 Post(s)
Liked 461 Times in 323 Posts
C-Clamp or vise and a socket for a press.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...r-tools-2.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ter-press.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ter-press.html

dedhed is offline  
Old 03-25-20, 05:34 PM
  #12  
WGB
WGB
Thread Starter
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 1,641

Bikes: League Fuji, Ross Aristocrat and soon to be a Takara Tribute

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 46 Posts
Too cheap to buy the Bikesmith one and caught again

Someone on here was going to make me one of the hand-made ones like Randy Jawa posted. I can't, no access to a shop. Have to search my emails or give in and buy a tool
WGB is offline  
Old 03-25-20, 06:05 PM
  #13  
desconhecido 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,729
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked 87 Times in 65 Posts
I've never had any luck removing cotters from old Raleighs without a cotter press. Even with a Bikesmith cotter press, I've fubared some. One thing to consider, whatever your method of choice, is heat. My best success has been to tighten the cotter press somewhat, heat that puppy up, and then apply a little more force with the press. Repeat until the cotter comes free or it gets bent over, in which case you can try a punch on the stub (while supporting the crank end) or a drill.

When you get one of the cotters out and look at it, I think you'll see why those suckers resist so much. It's not a matter of corrosion, it's that the cotter is pressed in so hard that it gets deformed by being pressed in between the hard spindle and the hard crank. The cotters are pretty soft in comparison.

If you do end up drilling, be carefull with the chainring so close to the rotating drill -- that always frightens me a tad, being the victim of many stupid accidents over the years. If you do drill, don't worry too much about damaging the spindle or crank as the cotter is much softer and the bit will follow it.
desconhecido is offline  
Old 03-25-20, 06:46 PM
  #14  
Moe Zhoost
Half way there
 
Moe Zhoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,947

Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 595 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 184 Posts
My home shop method for cotters is the vise and socket method. The local co-op has the Bikesmith press, but I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet. Both methods require you to tighten the vise/press up, then wait. I've been told that the reason for this is that the pressure on the pin causes it to heat up and expand. Waiting allows the pin to cool down at which point you can tighten some more. I don't know if this has been documented, but it makes sense to me.

Re: the rust on the rims and hubs -> I've had some worse than those that cleaned up nicely with an oxalic acid dip followed by some chrome polish. If you are not OCD about keeping them original, CR-18 rims are the way to go.
Moe Zhoost is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 04:08 PM
  #15  
WGB
WGB
Thread Starter
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 1,641

Bikes: League Fuji, Ross Aristocrat and soon to be a Takara Tribute

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 46 Posts
Got the wheels off of the ladies frame and working on the rear wheel.

Serious rust issues (used about 1/4 jug of Barkeepers Friend on about 5 spokes worth of the front rim and even with rust gone, rim still heavily pitted). Some spoke loose, one snapped and the nipples are rusted tight



Still, must not quit. I watched videos on how to dismantle the rear hub. Most of these videos start with the presumption you have the gear wheel removed. I didn't have mine out, but finally got past that and onto the step where you are removing the lock-ring (right hand locking washer?). It was suggested that I find the hole opposite where the clips are and insert a thin slot screwdriver blade in that hole opposite the clips.

Here is my issue. The two remain holes are roughly equidistant from the clips and no slot screwdriver will fit in either one. I don't want to wreck anything.

Any suggestions as to which hole? Does it even matter? What tool should work if a slot screwdriver doesn't fit?

If it helps it's marked 74 12 so assuming Made December 1974


Last edited by WGB; 03-27-20 at 04:32 PM.
WGB is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 05:53 AM
  #16  
WGB
WGB
Thread Starter
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 1,641

Bikes: League Fuji, Ross Aristocrat and soon to be a Takara Tribute

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 46 Posts
Bump - still need advice for removing.
WGB is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 06:13 AM
  #17  
Kovkov
Senior Member
 
Kovkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 341

Bikes: 1957 Alpa Special, 1963 Condor Delta, 1967 Tigra Sprint, 1977 Oltenia, 1987 Mondia, 1965 Staco de luxe, 1969 Amberg

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by WGB View Post
Bump - still need advice for removing.
Doesen‘t matter which hole.You can’t wreck anything. Might be that you‘ll need to be patient. That ring sometimes likes to jump back into position.
Kovkov is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 06:25 AM
  #18  
Moe Zhoost
Half way there
 
Moe Zhoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,947

Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 595 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 184 Posts
I'd insert your screwdriver into the cut-out at 10 o'clock in your picture. That clip end should easily pry up and over. Once it is up you will find it very easy to work around the retaining ring to completely remove it. You really cannot screw anything up here so go for it.
Moe Zhoost is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 09:08 AM
  #19  
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 7,495
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 644 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 84 Posts
Using a high quality screwdriver makes a difference. I have a small Klein flat blade that makes the job a cinch, and a cheapo one the same size that makes it a struggle.
Also, don't be afraid to push hard to work the tip in there. Just be careful you don't slip and stab yourself.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 09:17 AM
  #20  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,169
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 54 Times in 49 Posts
If you have a library close they may have an old Number 6 edition of Sutherland's manual for bikes. There is a section on taking apart the 3 speed hub.
davidad is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 09:34 AM
  #21  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 641

Bikes: Novara Safari, Fuji Gran Tourer, Schwinn Traveler FG

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 24 Posts
A Project Farm video on rust removers.
__________________
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 09:49 AM
  #22  
bertinjim 
Senior Member
 
bertinjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 1,137

Bikes: 1960s Bertin C37, 1970s Bertin C 37

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 40 Posts
Wes -

I have a Sutherland's 4th Edition with complete SA AW disassembly instructions including exploded diagrams, parts list and trouble shooting guide. You are welcome to borrow it. A free,complimentary wipe down with alcohol is included! PM me if you need it.

Jim
bertinjim is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 11:38 AM
  #23  
WGB
WGB
Thread Starter
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 1,641

Bikes: League Fuji, Ross Aristocrat and soon to be a Takara Tribute

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 46 Posts
Thank to all for help. Guess I just need a finer or smaller blade on the driver. I have a neighbor with a vise and will prevail on him to let me have access to prevent stabbing self with a dirty screwdriver blade (if anyone will do that it would be me).

As for the rust, I'll start cheap then and I'll make a bathtub out of a tarp and soak the rims for a few days in vinegar. I'm partial to Evaporust but it's expensive in Canada and can't go to NY for the foreseeable future. I was looking for a cheap kiddie pool and was going to try the electric rust removal method but understand that can kill chrome, same with oxalic acid??

As for libraries, no books because libraries are all closed here by government.

bertinjim I'll wait and see if the online photos are all I need to dismantle. So far I'm good except for that locking ring. I am photographing all parts in removal order so hopefully I can rebuilt with little difficulty. If I need the book we might be able to meet. Hopefully this quarantine works as planned and we can go back to our old lives and we'll grab lunch.

As for the alcohol to kill germs. I prefer the Iranian method where you drink it. I just want to use rum or bourbon instead of wood alcohol
WGB is offline  
Old 03-28-20, 01:09 PM
  #24  
Kovkov
Senior Member
 
Kovkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 341

Bikes: 1957 Alpa Special, 1963 Condor Delta, 1967 Tigra Sprint, 1977 Oltenia, 1987 Mondia, 1965 Staco de luxe, 1969 Amberg

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 29 Posts

Somewhere on the internet there is an english pdf-version of this.

Last edited by Kovkov; 03-29-20 at 03:09 PM.
Kovkov is offline  
Old 03-29-20, 08:43 AM
  #25  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 21,308

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2080 Post(s)
Liked 432 Times in 306 Posts
Originally Posted by Kovkov View Post
Somewhere on the internet there is an englisch pdf-version of this.
Yes, at Sturmey-Archer Heritage
JohnDThompson is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.