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1979 Trek 510 build

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1979 Trek 510 build

Old 03-30-20, 05:53 PM
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1979 Trek 510 build

I picked up a 1979 Trek 510 a few years ago and I figured it was time to get it on the road. This is a crazy time with the coronavirus. It just feels good to hang out in my shop, put on some tunes, drink a beer or two, and work on a fine machine from back in the day.

I'm a big fan of old Treks. I worked in a bike shop in the 80s. I liked the way that Trek took on the Europeans and the Japanese and built a fine bike that could stand up against anything being built in the day. I know I sold a lot of Treks in the shop where I worked. I believed in them then and I'm still a fan of steel vintage Treks.

The 500 series bikes sort of flies under the radar since they were built with Ishiwata tubing rather than Reynolds or Columbus like the higher end models but they are very fine bikes. The bike is low temperature silver brazed as are the higher end bikes. And Ishiwata 022 tubing is just as good as Reynolds or Columbus.

Current plans are to build the bike with parts on hand and try to use parts that will look right on a bike from 1979. I'll go with different and sturdier wheels. I'm not a fan of the narrow Rigida rims that came on so many Treks. They were soft and did not keep their true well. I'm also going to change out the crank since I want to go 3 x 6 on this build. The SR Apex crank that came on the bike has an obsolete bcd in any case. I'll keep the original derailleurs since they are suntour but I'll likely change out all the other parts.

Here is a picture of the bike as found in the "wild" as well as the spec sheet from the '79 catalog:



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Old 03-30-20, 07:10 PM
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Yours is a size smaller than the one I started with, a $40 frameset that I stripped and had numerous braze-ons added. The 022 feels a little whippy to me but it's a good city bike. I may go back to drops on it.

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Old 03-30-20, 07:28 PM
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Agree on the Rigidas. I'm currently rehabbing a 710 and contacted my friend to buy back the NOS Rigida 1320 rims I sold to him when I moved. Thought more about it and for now have polished the wheels and serviced the bearings. There are a couple of edge dents but after I put the bike back together then I'll decide on the rims following a couple of rides.

Maybe the Soma Eldons which are a dead ringer for the Rigida? Maybe still too narrow but look cool as hell.

The SR Apex is beautiful but of course you can't find smaller rings. Maybe a 110 bcd double with smaller rings instead of going triple? Will look more period.
I'm in the middle of the same considerations.
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Old 03-31-20, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by IsleRide View Post
Agree on the Rigidas. I'm currently rehabbing a 710 and contacted my friend to buy back the NOS Rigida 1320 rims I sold to him when I moved. Thought more about it and for now have polished the wheels and serviced the bearings. There are a couple of edge dents but after I put the bike back together then I'll decide on the rims following a couple of rides.

Maybe the Soma Eldons which are a dead ringer for the Rigida? Maybe still too narrow but look cool as hell.

The SR Apex is beautiful but of course you can't find smaller rings. Maybe a 110 bcd double with smaller rings instead of going triple? Will look more period.
I'm in the middle of the same considerations.
Those are all really good ideas.

The SR Apex that came on the bike has a 118 bcd. It's a very good crank but I want different gearing than the 52/40 rings that are on it. The SR Apex cranks came in a few different bcds including 86. An 86 bcd crank makes a good compact crank. But I'm trying to keep this a parts bin build so I'm likely to go with a sugino AT crank that I have lying around. Those cranks were sold in the 80s so I think it's close enough for my purposes.

For wheels, yeah the rigida 1320 rims just weren't that good. Mavic, superchampion, and araya all made better narrow rims. For modern rims, I like the Somas and Sun rims but I'm going to try to keep this a parts bin build. I may fall of that wagon before this is all done, though. .

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Old 03-31-20, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Yours is a size smaller than the one I started with, a $40 frameset that I stripped and had numerous braze-ons added. The 022 feels a little whippy to me but it's a good city bike. I may go back to drops on it.

That's a good looking bike. Interesting that you find the frame whippy. The tubing thickness of Ishiwata 022 is 0.9/0.6 which is the same as Columbus SL.

http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/col...umbuschart.htm

And of course on a larger frame such as yours, it was common (assuming the bike was made of Columbus steel) to use Columbus SP at least for the downtube; it's thicker at 1.0/0.7.

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Old 03-31-20, 04:59 PM
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The frame--ishiwata 022 tubing

I stripped the bike down to the frame and headset so I could deal with the few paint issues and use frame saver. The frame, fork, and headset weigh 6.2 lbs which isn't bad. Without the headset, the frame and fork likely weigh right around 6 lbs. Ishiwata 022 was very good stuff; it was top notch seamless double butted chrome moly with similar tubing thickness (0.9/0.6) as Columbus SL.

Ishiwata was sort of the Rodney Dangerfield of tubing sets. It didn't get a lot of respect, at least not like Reynolds or Columbus. There were some top notch builders who used it though. Bridgestone made a lot of bikes with Ishiwata tubing.

Equus has the catalogs for Ishiwata. I like the ad copy for the tubing: "run farther with less effort." http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/ish...ages/cover.jpg




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Old 03-31-20, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I picked up a 1979 Trek 510 a few years ago and I figured it was time to get it on the road. This is a crazy time with the coronavirus. It just feels good to hang out in my shop, put on some tunes, drink a beer or two, and work on a fine machine from back in the day.

I'm a big fan of old Treks. I worked in a bike shop in the 80s. I liked the way that Trek took on the Europeans and the Japanese and built a fine bike that could stand up against anything being built in the day. I know I sold a lot of Treks in the shop where I worked. I believed in them then and I'm still a fan of steel vintage Treks.

The 500 series bikes sort of flies under the radar since they were built with Ishiwata tubing rather than Reynolds or Columbus like the higher end models but they are very fine bikes. The bike is low temperature silver brazed as are the higher end bikes. And Ishiwata 022 tubing is just as good as Reynolds or Columbus.

Current plans are to build the bike with parts on hand and try to use parts that will look right on a bike from 1979. I'll go with different and sturdier wheels. I'm not a fan of the narrow Rigida rims that came on so many Treks. They were soft and did not keep their true well. I'm also going to change out the crank since I want to go 3 x 6 on this build. The SR Apex crank that came on the bike has an obsolete bcd in any case. I'll keep the original derailleurs since they are suntour but I'll likely change out all the other parts.

Here is a picture of the bike as found in the "wild" as well as the spec sheet from the '79 catalog:


Nice bike! Interesting to note the original purchaser ordered optional braze-ons for the water bottle cage, and rear brake cable, but neglected the down tube shifters.
Tim
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Old 04-01-20, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
Nice bike! Interesting to note the original purchaser ordered optional braze-ons for the water bottle cage, and rear brake cable, but neglected the down tube shifters.
Tim
My '79 is equipped with the same braze-ons. Maybe it was a suggested package at that point? I like strapped down tube shifters myself, especially if they're Suntour!
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Old 04-01-20, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
Nice bike! Interesting to note the original purchaser ordered optional braze-ons for the water bottle cage, and rear brake cable, but neglected the down tube shifters.
Tim
Originally Posted by IsleRide View Post
My '79 is equipped with the same braze-ons. Maybe it was a suggested package at that point? I like strapped down tube shifters myself, especially if they're Suntour!
I don't think brazed on down tube shifter bosses didn't really become a thing until the 80s. Trek was using stops on the frame rather than bosses in the early 80s. I'll bet that in 1979 have a stop for a clamped on shifter gave you more choices than a brazed on boss.

The build specs for the 1979 Trek 510 series called for suntour ratcheting downtube shifters and I'll likely use them as they're really good. Here is a page from the suntour catalogs and the page from the Trek catalogs:





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Old 04-01-20, 03:28 PM
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The original owner of my 77 900, actually the guy I bought it from, ordered all options, including the shifter bosses

1977 Trek TX 900

Tim
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Old 04-01-20, 04:44 PM
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Wheels = superchampion 58 rims & campy nuovo tipo hubs

I've overhauled the hubs and intalled new tires on a set of wheels with 700c superchampion 58 rims and campagnolo nuovo tipo hubs. The tires are soma "shikoro" which they call an "armored speed tire." It has bead to bead protection and the weight is good: 430 grams for a 700 x 33c tire with a wire bead. Although the tire is nominally 33c, it measures 30c on my rims.

The bike came to me with Rigida 1320 rims. They came stock on a lot of old Treks and they weren't very good. They were soft and difficult to keep in true. Plus there's no reason for me to run a narrow rim on this bike. They make sense if switching back and forth between tubulars for racing and clinchers for training since the width is around the same and the brakes will not need adjustment. This is not the kind of bike you'd use tubulars on.

Superchampion 58s were probably my favorite vintage rims. They trued up nicely and held their true over time. The small flange nuovo tipo hubs are very solid hubs. These wheels are a good fit for a bike from 1979. I love the old ad for Superchampion rims with the drawing from Daniel Rebour.







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Old 04-01-20, 09:57 PM
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Way to go, Bikemig! With all your other neato bikes, I like how your making this part of the fleet.

Especially a frameset with interesting storyline of Ishiwata. You're right on with the 'no respect' - lol. I too have an all Japan made Trek Ishiwata 022 frameset awaiting in the raw. Its getting full Shimano Arabesque, Sunshine tall flange hubs with Araya aero 2 tubulars.
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Old 04-01-20, 10:17 PM
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Totally agree with your view on Super Champion rims bikemig. Don’t know if you could see the rims on my TX 900, but here’s a better pic.
Tim


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Old 04-02-20, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
Way to go, Bikemig! With all your other neato bikes, I like how your making this part of the fleet.

Especially a frameset with interesting storyline of Ishiwata. You're right on with the 'no respect' - lol. I too have an all Japan made Trek Ishiwata 022 frameset awaiting in the raw. Its getting full Shimano Arabesque, Sunshine tall flange hubs with Araya aero 2 tubulars.
Excellent idea. I like the idea of using early Shimano 600 for this build as well. The shimano 600 EX, FC 6200 stuff was out by 1978 so it could have been mounted as original equipment on this bike. The FC 6207 stuff was out by the mid 80s. I have a Shimano FC 6200 brakeset for the bike. I'm not sure if I have a full arabesque group for the bike but I can mix 6200 and 6207.
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Old 04-04-20, 06:30 AM
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Working on the frame

The paint is in good shape; Treks have terrific paint jobs. There is a fair amount of scratching on the downtube and a bit of rust on the top tube cable guides. I used clear nail polish over the missing paint. I really like evapo-rust gel for dealing with issues on the frame as it clings to the bike. You leave it on overnight and the rust is gone. I also used frame saver. Next up is the fun part which is scavenging for parts since this bike is a parts bin build.



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Old 04-04-20, 11:54 AM
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I found my ‘79 514 on Facebook marketplace.
It was in sad shape, and I almost passed it over. I went to look at it, and was really struck by the finish quality of the radiused drop outs. Then I saw the tubing and fork blade stickers stating it was a fully butted chromo tube set including fork and stays!

Chromo forks were only on the best of the best in ‘79! The Miyata 710, another mid level bike by a respected name didn’t get a chromo fork until ‘86!

I am really surprised at how light and agile this bike feels, and that’s with 44.5cm chain stays! Mines a 24” size too, and I’m no light weight, but I find the frame to have a lovely sprung feel. I know that 022 tubing was used in Zebra’s touring bike, the “Tour de Force, so it was at least considered stiff enough for touring by somebody.

I don’t know if it’s the tubing or build, but it might be my favorite riding bike. If I find another full ishy 022 frame I’d be seriously tempted.





That Zebra’s a cool bike, ‘84 or 5 or so, and it has vertical rear drop outs and brazes on top mounted aero shifters 🙂
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Old 04-04-20, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
I found my ‘79 514 on Facebook marketplace.
It was in sad shape, and I almost passed it over. I went to look at it, and was really struck by the finish quality of the radiused drop outs. Then I saw the tubing and fork blade stickers stating it was a fully butted chromo tube set including fork and stays!

Chromo forks were only on the best of the best in ‘79! The Miyata 710, another mid level bike by a respected name didn’t get a chromo fork until ‘86!

I am really surprised at how light and agile this bike feels, and that’s with 44.5cm chain stays! Mines a 24” size too, and I’m no light weight, but I find the frame to have a lovely sprung feel. I know that 022 tubing was used in Zebra’s touring bike, the “Tour de Force, so it was at least considered stiff enough for touring by somebody.

I don’t know if it’s the tubing or build, but it might be my favorite riding bike. If I find another full ishy 022 frame I’d be seriously tempted.





That Zebra’s a cool bike, ‘84 or 5 or so, and it has vertical rear drop outs and brazes on top mounted aero shifters 🙂
Both are cool bikes. Yeah Ishiwata just doesn't get a lot of love here. And the Trek 500 series flies under the radar. But at least in the 70s, the 500 series had a full Ishiwata frame and low temp silver brazed. That's a fine way to build a bike.

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Old 04-04-20, 01:46 PM
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May not apply to the bikes above but caveat '81 Trek 610/613/614 and '82 Trek 613/614 because the Ishiwata CCL fork crown does not have a proper lug point so it is a failure vector. The 412 has the same Ishiwata 0265 forks as the 613/614/616. May have to dig and research but believe they were recalled.
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Old 04-04-20, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
May not apply to the bikes above but caveat '81 Trek 610/613/614 and '82 Trek 613/614 because the Ishiwata CCL fork crown does not have a proper lug point so it is a failure vector. The 412 has the same Ishiwata 0265 forks as the 613/614/616. May have to dig and research but believe they were recalled.
That's not a problem with this model. That Ishiwata CCL fork crown appeared on the 600 series in '81 and '82 and the 400 series from those years. I picked up an '81 412 which I ended up using as a parts donor because of the potential fork issue (although the fork on mine is in perfect shape).

Here's a pic of the CCL fork on my 400 series Trek and the chrome moly investment cast fork crown on the '79 Trek 510 which has very short tangs as well. The light blue is the CCL fork crown; the dark blue the Trek 510 investment cast fork crown. The investment cast 510 fork crown is just a nicer quality crown. If you look at the 3d image below, it has the tech specs for the '79 models including the fork crown.


Ishiwata CCL fork crown

Trek 510 investment cast chrome moly fork crown with integral tangs


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Old 04-04-20, 05:47 PM
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My '79 930 has brazed on shifter mounts. My '80 414 does not. The 414 is Ishiwata 022 main triangle only. Both nice bikes
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one general tip for when the exact hub cone is not readily available. discovered that the curvature of the bearing surface on the shimano 600 was a pretty good "skeleton key" for many applications. it would sometimes require a small change in ball size to make everything come out correctly.
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Old 04-05-20, 08:28 AM
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I’m going to have to check the fork crown on my ‘81 412 now...

@bikemig, did your 500 come with 27” wheels? My ‘78 and ‘81 both came with 27” wheels, which made for great 700c conversions.

Agree that the Ishiwata 500 series are fantastic bikes and often great deals.

I think my ‘79 710 looks great with a Sugino AT crank - you should go for it! (See sig in desktop mode.)

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Old 04-05-20, 09:14 AM
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I
Originally Posted by mountaindave View Post
I’m ping you have to check the fork crown on my ‘81 412 now...

@bikemig, did your 500 come with 27” wheels? My ‘78 and ‘81 both came with 27” wheels, which made for great 700c conversions.

Agree that the Ishiwata 500 series are fantastic bikes and often great deals.

I think my ‘79 710 looks great with a Sugino AT crank - you should go for it! (See sig in desktop mode.)

Wheels: The bike came with 700c wheels but I think it could easily take 27 x 1 and 1/4 tires as well. In fact I may end up using 27 inch wheels as I have a set with shimano 333 hi flange hubs and sun cr 18 rims that need a good home. I'll run a test with 27 x 1 and 1/4 tires to see if that is a possibility.

Parts: My original idea was to go with a sugino AT crank. But I have a mixed shimano FC 6200 and 6207 group that would look pretty sweet on this bike.
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Old 04-05-20, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Parts: My original idea was to go with a sugino AT crank. But I have a mixed shimano FC 6200 and 6207 group that would look pretty sweet on this bike.
Right, I skimmed over the Arabesque group. Agreed - very appropriate for the bike.
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Old 04-05-20, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mountaindave View Post
Right, I skimmed over the Arabesque group. Agreed - very appropriate for the bike.
So I just checked. A pair of 27 inch wheels with 27 x 1 and 1/4 pasela protite tires fits nicely. I think I'm going with those wheels (shimano high flange hubs and sun CR 18 rims).
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Old 04-05-20, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
So I just checked. A pair of 27 inch wheels with 27 x 1 and 1/4 pasela protite tires fits nicely. I think I'm going with those wheels (shimano high flange hubs and sun CR 18 rims).
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