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I'm sorry...some modern drivetrains are stupid

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I'm sorry...some modern drivetrains are stupid

Old 04-01-20, 06:13 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Yeah, we should all be running Campy NR derailleurs with their cracked pulleys and narrow range, just like Eddie did!

Yeah, 1 x 11 is just stoopid.
Or Simplex Prestige! Steel is real, and plastic is fantastic!

Cool bike, btw.
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Old 04-01-20, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Give me a lever long enough and I can shift the position of the Earth. Assuming the lever is sufficiently stiff and durable.
What are you going to lever against?
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Old 04-01-20, 06:27 AM
  #53  
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Old 04-01-20, 07:38 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post

50T Front.
10-42 rear.
Hopefully you also have the anatomy skin suit to wear when you ride it.
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Old 04-01-20, 07:44 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
That's about what is recommended for fully loaded touring. Most die-hard world tourers won't like a 1X setup because they are conservative and tend to prefer proven/readily available technology. But you see the technology a lot on long-distance randonneur bikes.


(Link)
What tool develops this view? I like Sheldon's calculator, but this visual is preferable, imo.
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Old 04-01-20, 07:52 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
What tool develops this view? I like Sheldon's calculator, but this visual is preferable, imo.
Ritzelrechner (Gear Calculator) There is a link to that particular setup in the link below the image.
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Old 04-01-20, 08:02 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mrv View Post
I don't know. It seems like the rear ends of the modern bikes keep getting wider and wider to accomdate a 1 x 13? 1 x 20? when they gonna stop? how wide a rear-end on a bike? 200mm?
I would love to get something like a 135mm rear hub with a 3X5 gearing and a lot less dish on the wheel. Wouldn't that give a long lasting durable rear wheel set up? I think so. It's OK to say tell me how I'm wrong. (and yep, I'm still talking rim brakes....)

ciao!
I wondered for years why road didn't go 135 for for a better wheel back when it was 8sp and everything was becoming 9sp. Just seemed rediculous to not and when I had a frame custom made I specified 135mm rear end and room for 40c tires which meant a road bike with xtr instead of DA which were some strong wheels with velocity aeroheads. Personally I like my 1x11 mtb setup for the simplicity of quick shifts to respond to random terrain off-road though I don't always like the jumps at the higher end. Nor do I think it's ugly.
for road there's a lot to be said about a nice, wider range double like a 50/34 and an 11-32 for going fast and climbing most things. But even then I like my 10sp for nice close jumps since I've never met a flat road and I do get tired over time. 5 speeds just doesn't have enough range without dramatic jumps that I can avoid with 10sp
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Old 04-01-20, 08:35 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Most die-hard world tourers won't like a 1X setup because they are conservative and tend to prefer proven/readily available technology.
Sort of funny because the 1x system isn't really new technology. If anything, it's a lot simpler with less parts to break than a traditional FD system that a tourer would use.

A large cassette is the same tech as a small cassette - it's more of a new implementation of a proven technology. I suppose you could say that a clutch in the rear derailleur and the narrow-wide chainring are "new", but they've been used for many years in the MTB world so in my mind they are both proven and readily available. In other words the 1x system would be less likely to break on tour and also I wouldn't need to worry about finding FD parts in a remote area.
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Old 04-01-20, 08:47 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
Sort of funny because the 1x system isn't really new technology. If anything, it's a lot simpler with less parts to break than a traditional FD system that a tourer would use.

A large cassette is the same tech as a small cassette - it's more of a new implementation of a proven technology. I suppose you could say that a clutch in the rear derailleur and the narrow-wide chainring are "new", but they've been used for many years in the MTB world so in my mind they are both proven and readily available. In other words the 1x system would be less likely to break on tour and also I wouldn't need to worry about finding FD parts in a remote area.
It isn't but as you can see in this thread (1x Drivetrain for all round gravel touring bike - Touring subforum) the reactions are a bit mixed.
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Old 04-01-20, 10:14 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Yeah, we should all be running Campy NR derailleurs with their cracked pulleys and narrow range, ...
I'll give good odds that there's not 1 cracked pulley wheel on any of your rideable vintage classics.
And that goes for most of you folks.
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Old 04-01-20, 10:30 AM
  #61  
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Well, duh. If they had cracked pulleys they wouldn't be rideable.
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Old 04-01-20, 11:33 AM
  #62  
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Wow, I had no idea narrow-wide chainrings even existed. Thank you everyone for keeping me from doing or saying something stupid in the future! (Also for all the other interesting information in this thread.)
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Old 04-01-20, 12:13 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by tashi View Post
Well, duh. If they had cracked pulleys they wouldn't be rideable.

Nice site, nice adventures.
I wouldn't take a bike on adventures through India or Guatemala with a cracked jockey wheel, either!
I wonder what the inventory of 50tooth cassettes is in those places if it needs replacement? Or the rear derailleur? or even 11/12sp chains?

We all face trade-offs as cyclists. The joy of choice.
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Old 04-01-20, 12:26 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
Sort of funny because the 1x system isn't really new technology. If anything, it's a lot simpler with less parts to break than a traditional FD system that a tourer would use.

A large cassette is the same tech as a small cassette - it's more of a new implementation of a proven technology. I suppose you could say that a clutch in the rear derailleur and the narrow-wide chainring are "new", but they've been used for many years in the MTB world so in my mind they are both proven and readily available. In other words the 1x system would be less likely to break on tour and also I wouldn't need to worry about finding FD parts in a remote area.
Sorta on topic, maybe, but IMNHO many things like flat bars and tubeless tires that make total functional, practical sense in the MTB realm do not make the same functional practical sense in road bikes, but get pushed as new and cool and usefull. I am not sure where wide range 1x systems fit. yes they cover a similar range, but with fewer steps to fine tune.

and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....something can be really functional and still fugly
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Old 04-01-20, 12:28 PM
  #65  
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If there was a polished silver long cage rear derailleur with clutch I would definitely put it on my rando bike though. The 52/42/26 X 11-34 drivetrain could use a bit more tension and less chain slapping when I drive it up places it shouldn't be going.
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Old 04-01-20, 01:29 PM
  #66  
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I'm not convinced by the op's apology in the thread title.
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Old 04-01-20, 01:54 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by tashi View Post
Well, duh. If they had cracked pulleys they wouldn't be rideable.
On the contrary, I have bought used Campy RDs with cracked jockey wheels that show signs that they were ridden with such for many miles......
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Old 04-01-20, 02:03 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
On the contrary, I have bought used Campy RDs with cracked jockey wheels that show signs that they were ridden with such for many miles......
Do they continue to hold up if ridden hard?
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Old 04-01-20, 02:18 PM
  #69  
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Here's what I believe to be the original truss fork and frame, on an 1896 Pedersen bicycle. They were strong, rigid and light. Claimed weight was 17 lb in the smallest frame size. Note the hammock style saddle to compensate for the frame's stiffness on the rough roads of the day. Production of the Pedersen stopped in 1917 but was resurrected in 1978 and continues to this day.
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Old 04-01-20, 02:45 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
That's about what is recommended for fully loaded touring. Most die-hard world tourers won't like a 1X setup because they are conservative and tend to prefer proven/readily available technology. But you see the technology a lot on long-distance randonneur bikes.

(Link)
It actually a bit high for a touring bike. Itís what manufacturers might put on a touring bike but itís not as low as touring gearing can go with just a little modification.

1x gearing is showing up in touring bikes but itís got a lot of limitations. You can generally have a high gear or a low gear but not both. That means that you can climb well and spend your time on the flats poking along or you can go fast on the flats and struggle up hill. Most touring bikes arenít going to accommodate a boost hub some the 10 tooth cog is kind of out of the question. Thereís also the cost of a 10-50 1x system. Just the cassette is nearly $200.

I can make a wider range system that has a good high and a very good low for less than the cost of the cassette.

Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
What tool develops this view? I like Sheldon's calculator, but this visual is preferable, imo.
Itís a very good gear calculator. It also allows for comparisons of different drive trains. For example, this compares the 1x system above to a traditional mountain bike like touring setup. The high is much higher with a similar low. Itís not too difficult to get a lower low with just a 36 tooth cog on the cassette. Changing to a 20 tooth inner, either by using a 58mm BCD crank or by modifying a Shimano 64mm BCD crank (itís not difficult), gives and even lower low with the same high gear. I fully appreciated this gearing on several tours in the eastern US where the mountains lack altitude but they donít lack for attitude! The roads on the hills are much, much steeper there than here in the west.
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Old 04-01-20, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
It actually a bit high for a touring bike. Itís what manufacturers might put on a touring bike but itís not as low as touring gearing can go with just a little modification.

1x gearing is showing up in touring bikes but itís got a lot of limitations. You can generally have a high gear or a low gear but not both. That means that you can climb well and spend your time on the flats poking along or you can go fast on the flats and struggle up hill. Most touring bikes arenít going to accommodate a boost hub some the 10 tooth cog is kind of out of the question. Thereís also the cost of a 10-50 1x system. Just the cassette is nearly $200.

I can make a wider range system that has a good high and a very good low for less than the cost of the cassette.



Itís a very good gear calculator. It also allows for comparisons of different drive trains. For example, this compares the 1x system above to a traditional mountain bike like touring setup. The high is much higher with a similar low. Itís not too difficult to get a lower low with just a 36 tooth cog on the cassette. Changing to a 20 tooth inner, either by using a 58mm BCD crank or by modifying a Shimano 64mm BCD crank (itís not difficult), gives and even lower low with the same high gear. I fully appreciated this gearing on several tours in the eastern US where the mountains lack altitude but they donít lack for attitude! The roads on the hills are much, much steeper there than here in the west.
I am interested in refining the gearing on my 81-speed. I've lived in the east for 53 of my almost 61 years. I know about the hills here... plus my power/weight ratio isn't what it was when I was 20.
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Old 04-01-20, 04:24 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Here's what I believe to be the original truss fork and frame, on an 1896 Pedersen bicycle. They were strong, rigid and light. Claimed weight was 17 lb in the smallest frame size. Note the hammock style saddle to compensate for the frame's stiffness on the rough roads of the day. Production of the Pedersen stopped in 1917 but was resurrected in 1978 and continues to this day.
Great info with a picture to boot! You da man. What size wheels/tires are those? A more modern wheelset might push the weight down even more.
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Old 04-01-20, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tashi View Post
Do they continue to hold up if ridden hard?
Maybe I don't ride hard. Cracked Campy pulleys work "forever". However, I don't know how long a cracked Shimano pulley will work. Does anybody know?
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Old 04-01-20, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Because of liability issues, they will only do that surgery for the track crowd. Issue is with threaded cranks. As of now, the pin at the "foot" needs to be threaded into the crank. In a crash a rider will NOT release from that crank. Lawsuits will happen. But the track crowd have been doing bolt-in fastening, double toestraps, toestraps over clipless, etc. for years to prevent accidental un-cleats fixed at speed. Locked in for a crash? That's life. They wouldn't even think about suing.
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Old 04-01-20, 05:55 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
This bike would be OK until you had a crash. It would not be as strong in a head on collision, or even hitting a large pot hole.
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