Driver kills while license suspended,punishment... another suspended license.
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Driver kills while license suspended,punishment... another suspended license.
Trucker With Suspended License Killed a Cyclist — And Got Only Another Suspended License
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/10/...ended-license/
Unbelievable!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
227 Posts
Hearbreaking. This is why I ride in the far left side of the bike lane and sometimes, well into the actual vehicle lane, depending on what is going on. Dooring is a clear and present danger when riding in any urban environment. Insanely defensive riding is the only answer, in my opinion.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,955
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4845 Post(s)
Liked 3,974 Times
in
2,581 Posts
I didn't read the whole article but - the rider got doored and thrown into the path of a vehicle and the enemy is that vehicle, not the opener of the door?
I have long known that if I get doored with a vehicle behind me, I probably am going to die. Never expected them to suffer legal consequences. Always figured it was my duty to ride so I didn't get doored. I've been doored twice, decades ago. Both times I was thrown into the vehicle path. Both times I knew there was a car behind me; not very close but chose to pass the parked cars, both the sole parked car on the street and seeming unoccupied. Big mistake, Fortunately those following cars were not close and that wasn't an issue. The first time I was 14. The second was the big wake-up call.
From the link:
"The other driver involved in Padwee’s death — driver Louise Bien-Aime, who recklessly opened her door into the cyclist’s path — received even less of a punishment than Osorio-Torres. She also had her license suspended for 180 days, but the DA declined to prosecute her for illegally dooring Padwee — even though a video of the fatal incident shows Bien-Aime started the chain of events that led to Padwee’s death."
The bolded test is the real issue here. That driver made a choice that caused a death and was contrary to the law in every state I've lived in. The truck driver just happened to be in the wrong place. If he wasn't there, another vehicle might well have taken his place.
Ben
I have long known that if I get doored with a vehicle behind me, I probably am going to die. Never expected them to suffer legal consequences. Always figured it was my duty to ride so I didn't get doored. I've been doored twice, decades ago. Both times I was thrown into the vehicle path. Both times I knew there was a car behind me; not very close but chose to pass the parked cars, both the sole parked car on the street and seeming unoccupied. Big mistake, Fortunately those following cars were not close and that wasn't an issue. The first time I was 14. The second was the big wake-up call.
From the link:
"The other driver involved in Padwee’s death — driver Louise Bien-Aime, who recklessly opened her door into the cyclist’s path — received even less of a punishment than Osorio-Torres. She also had her license suspended for 180 days, but the DA declined to prosecute her for illegally dooring Padwee — even though a video of the fatal incident shows Bien-Aime started the chain of events that led to Padwee’s death."
The bolded test is the real issue here. That driver made a choice that caused a death and was contrary to the law in every state I've lived in. The truck driver just happened to be in the wrong place. If he wasn't there, another vehicle might well have taken his place.
Ben
#4
eMail Sold to Spammers
As heart breaking as this is, you can't criminally prosecute every traffic accident. In every traffic accident, you can find negligence. There has to be gross negligence for manslaughter, not just negligence. In other words, the person has to have blatant disregard for the safety of others. Making a dumb mistake, even if it kills another person, is not criminal.
Civil liability is a different matter. Absolutely the one who opened the door should be sued for wrongful death.
Civil liability is a different matter. Absolutely the one who opened the door should be sued for wrongful death.
#5
Senior Member
The OP title is a little misleading. Regardless the persons responsibility, he ignored the first penalty so it MUST be escalated. This is just one example of the millions of paper cuts (the license violation) rapidly degrading at least the US. I could give dozens of examples just based on traffic behavior during my commute per day. Most basic of all, speed limits have become a waste of stamped metal. Not even getting into the typical more serious crimes you see on the news daily, the white collar crime that's often less prominent in the news, white collar behavior that's unethical, but perhaps not illegal. Unethical and illegal behavior by all political parties that often goes unpunished or minimally punished.
Likes For gear64:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947
Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times
in
936 Posts
Sheesh... sounds like they said, "Now don't do it again, or else we'll tell you not to do it again a second time."
Likes For Milton Keynes:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
I feel sorry for the bicyclist, the drivers of the vehicles and the bicyclist's family but...
Riding at speed in the door zone. What could possibly go wrong?
#1. Bicyclist at fault for riding at speed in the door zone.
#2. Driver at fault for opening the door and thereby dooring the bicyclist.
#3. Driver of a a stopped truck at fault for not seeing the bicyclist knocked under the truck.
Of the three I think the driver of the truck was the LEAST at fault. Even had he been driving with a current license I doubt the outcome would have been any different. When ever I ride with a group or an individual and see people riding a bicycle in the door zone I try to warn them of the hazards of doing that. There are videos on You Tube that do an excellent job of showing just how far a bicyclist needs to be away from a parked vehicle in order to avoid being hit by a door that's suddenly opened.
and
Do NOT ride in the door zone!
Cheers
Riding at speed in the door zone. What could possibly go wrong?
#1. Bicyclist at fault for riding at speed in the door zone.
#2. Driver at fault for opening the door and thereby dooring the bicyclist.
#3. Driver of a a stopped truck at fault for not seeing the bicyclist knocked under the truck.
Of the three I think the driver of the truck was the LEAST at fault. Even had he been driving with a current license I doubt the outcome would have been any different. When ever I ride with a group or an individual and see people riding a bicycle in the door zone I try to warn them of the hazards of doing that. There are videos on You Tube that do an excellent job of showing just how far a bicyclist needs to be away from a parked vehicle in order to avoid being hit by a door that's suddenly opened.
and
Do NOT ride in the door zone!
Cheers
#8
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,854
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2136 Post(s)
Liked 1,649 Times
in
830 Posts
Must be nice being able to keep a commercial driving job while your license is suspended.
#9
Full Member
Thread Starter
Looks like the reason drivers aren't being held accountable is that NY laws are toothless. This may change things.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/10/...s-accountable/
This statement is the best. You would hope that it invokes swift action.
Someone in New York City is equally as "likely to be killed by a car as he or she is to be murdered by a knife or a gun," says Manhattan DA Cy Vance."
— Vincent Barone (@vinbarone) October 29, 2019
You must ask "What took them so long?" (and yet it's only a proposed change) It hopefully will be fast tracked without being watered down.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/10/...s-accountable/
This statement is the best. You would hope that it invokes swift action.
Someone in New York City is equally as "likely to be killed by a car as he or she is to be murdered by a knife or a gun," says Manhattan DA Cy Vance."
— Vincent Barone (@vinbarone) October 29, 2019
You must ask "What took them so long?" (and yet it's only a proposed change) It hopefully will be fast tracked without being watered down.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Looks like the reason drivers aren't being held accountable is that NY laws are toothless. This may change things.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/10/...s-accountable/
This statement is the best. You would hope that it invokes swift action.
Someone in New York City is equally as "likely to be killed by a car as he or she is to be murdered by a knife or a gun," says Manhattan DA Cy Vance."
— Vincent Barone (@vinbarone) October 29, 2019
You must ask "What took them so long?" (and yet it's only a proposed change) It hopefully will be fast tracked without being watered down.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/10/...s-accountable/
This statement is the best. You would hope that it invokes swift action.
Someone in New York City is equally as "likely to be killed by a car as he or she is to be murdered by a knife or a gun," says Manhattan DA Cy Vance."
— Vincent Barone (@vinbarone) October 29, 2019
You must ask "What took them so long?" (and yet it's only a proposed change) It hopefully will be fast tracked without being watered down.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, DON'T RIDE IN THE DOOR ZONE!
Cheers
Likes For Miele Man:
#12
Full Member
Thread Starter
I suppose that it could be said that a prison escapee status of being an "escapee" is likewise irrelevant when he commits transgressions against society while out on the lam.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
It does seem irrelevant other than the fact the he shouldn't have been driving and that he dealt the lethal strike.
I suppose that it could be said that a prison escapee status of being an "escapee" is likewise irrelevant when he commits transgressions against society while out on the lam.
I suppose that it could be said that a prison escapee status of being an "escapee" is likewise irrelevant when he commits transgressions against society while out on the lam.
Cheers
#14
Full Member
Thread Starter
An argument can be made that all parties involved in an accident are at fault.
Had they NOT been at that place and time the accident would NOT have occurred. You Know!!!
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Again. #1 . The bicyclist was riding in the door zone which is a risky place to ride a bicycle.
Again. #2 . the driver of the vehicle opened the door of that vehicle and knocked the bicyclist under the truck.
Again. #3 . The driver of the truck, not knowing the bicyclist was under the truck drove off.
Thus it can be seen from the sequence of events that even had the driver of the truck had a current license that the outcome of events #1 and #2 would have been the same. The bicyclist would still have been knocked under the truck and the truck driver would not have been aware of that.
Cheers
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,955
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4845 Post(s)
Liked 3,974 Times
in
2,581 Posts
You who are blaming the truck driver - I have a question for you. Have you been doored or watched a rider get doored? Do you have any idea how fast you get shot into the traffic lane? Opening car doors are basically catapults that change your forward speed to a toss into the car lane. The only defense a following driver has is to not be there. But their presence behind the bike is completely legal and can be entirely proper.
Ben
Ben
#17
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 154
Bikes: 1996 Cannondale R900, 2016 Trek Boone, 2005 Giant Yukon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 584 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
54 Posts
The truck driver was 100% not at fault. IMO though if driving on a suspended license, should result in some minor jail time. When I'm biking in these type of streets, I do so slowly. People are going to mess up and throw their doors open at you. It will happen. Either stay far enough away, or go slower.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Don't ride in t he door-zone! If you do insist on riding in the door-zone then do so slowly so that you can stop instantly although evn that might not stop you from being deflected into traffic if doored.
Cheers
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,955
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4845 Post(s)
Liked 3,974 Times
in
2,581 Posts
30 years for driving without a license and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Wow! Rydabent, would you be comfortable with getting a week behind bars for having an elderly woman bump into you, fall and break a bone while you are holding an overdue library book?
#21
Cycle Year Round