Flat Paddle Pedals on a Road Bike
10-07-23, 12:22 AM
#26
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I ride with VP Vice on all my bikes, including my road bike, without reservation or restriction. I currently wear Altra Lone Peak trail shoes whose soft rubber cleated soles allow for permanent indentations from the pins of the pedals. (My feet are size 14, I ride 150mm cranks and place my feet nearer midfoot than ball of the foot.) My feet are effectively "in place" where I want them without being restricted/attached and without slipping, and yes I can spin out as fast as possible without ever losing my feet. I've never had my feet slip regardless of the effort. What I like the best is the Altra shoes are so much more anatomic and comfortable for my feet. Nobody makes a cleated shoes like that. I cringe at all the cramped feet I experienced with cleated shoes dating back when I bought the original Look and then Time shoes and pedals in the mid/late 80's. But still, the shoes and their ill fit were constricting, and feet should never be that. While they are better designed shoes today from the likes of Bont and all, they're still rock hard road shoes. A stiff sole isn't necessarily a best one. Wearing comfortable shoes on the bike and being able to walk around normally is the best thing ever.
I'd say your experience with unattached compared to attached ones is all about the technique/ability of the rider in conjunction with selecting a suitable pedal for that rider and shoes that will offer the proper grip. Having ridden rollers for a long time I became familiar with every nuance of bodily movement on the bike, especially the lower half. There isn't anything a clipless pedal can offer me now that I don't already have with the setup I have. One thing for sure, clipless pedals allow for any technique. That's a good thing for some, not so good for others.
I'd say your experience with unattached compared to attached ones is all about the technique/ability of the rider in conjunction with selecting a suitable pedal for that rider and shoes that will offer the proper grip. Having ridden rollers for a long time I became familiar with every nuance of bodily movement on the bike, especially the lower half. There isn't anything a clipless pedal can offer me now that I don't already have with the setup I have. One thing for sure, clipless pedals allow for any technique. That's a good thing for some, not so good for others.
10-07-23, 04:46 AM
#28
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I use these, made out of Magnesium, with a titanium spindle
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10-07-23, 05:55 AM
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All of that has nothing to do with riding flat pedals on a road bike of course ! Regardless of where you place your feet as long as you select shoes that the pedals can grip and pedals that can grip the shoes, you're good to go.
10-07-23, 06:09 AM
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Don't be an expletive? Yes, the product is designed for a specific purpose (often) but ... the engineers who design the product are, in most companies, not the ones who make the decisions on anything written associated with that product. That's often marketing and the legal team. The engineers often have input but rarely the final say. And more than occasional, those labels leave the engineers shaking their heads.
10-07-23, 07:01 AM
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I thought its been found that the foot clips do not increase efficiency, contrary to what has been common belief.
In college, I had a road bike with cages wrapping my feet. I was sure I was getting extra power out of those pedals, because I would pull up on the pedals during the backside portion of the pedal stroke. In those days, I did not have trouble getting my foot out quickly enough. That was 40 years ago. When I got the bike I have now, I started out with similar pedal cages but found when the bike is going down, it goes down FAST, so I had to adjust.
In college, I had a road bike with cages wrapping my feet. I was sure I was getting extra power out of those pedals, because I would pull up on the pedals during the backside portion of the pedal stroke. In those days, I did not have trouble getting my foot out quickly enough. That was 40 years ago. When I got the bike I have now, I started out with similar pedal cages but found when the bike is going down, it goes down FAST, so I had to adjust.
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10-07-23, 07:12 AM
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My wife has big Deity platform mountain pedals on her road bike (despite being an Atheist).
The one situation where they become problematic is off-road, where she gets pedal strikes. She has 165mm crank arms, but that isn't enough.
I was thinking of getting some smaller child-sized platforms, or small Spank Spoons, to see if that might help.
FWIW, I find it is easier to release from 2-bolt cleats than it is to pull my 5-10s free of the spikes on flat pedals. Also, spikes on flat pedals restrict float.
The one situation where they become problematic is off-road, where she gets pedal strikes. She has 165mm crank arms, but that isn't enough.
I was thinking of getting some smaller child-sized platforms, or small Spank Spoons, to see if that might help.
FWIW, I find it is easier to release from 2-bolt cleats than it is to pull my 5-10s free of the spikes on flat pedals. Also, spikes on flat pedals restrict float.
Not sure how platform pedals would mitigate the problem of pedal strikes, though
10-07-23, 09:41 AM
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10-07-23, 09:53 AM
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Pinned flat pedals are definitely not for me on a road bike. Always have to hunt around for the right foot placement, need to be careful not to come off and get shin or calf gouged out. I use them begrudgingly when I dabble in actual mountain biking, where the trade-off for me is between those downsides vs. breaking an ankle. The worst part is my muscle memory is to twist before taking my foot off the pedal, which doesn't work with grippy pins and soles.
OP must be running some crap tires at way too high pressure if they are frequently sliding out. Having to put a foot down to avoid crashing is the territory of high speed cornering in CX and gravel, not typical road/commuting situations.
OP must be running some crap tires at way too high pressure if they are frequently sliding out. Having to put a foot down to avoid crashing is the territory of high speed cornering in CX and gravel, not typical road/commuting situations.
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10-07-23, 05:59 PM
#35
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I like pinned flats exactly because I can change foot position. I often have knee pain due to arthritis; usually I can find a pain-free position bu moving my foot around.
10-07-23, 07:15 PM
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Outside of sprint situations, clipless performance advantages are negligible. GCN did a couple of videos on the subject. Some trainers say to not consciously pull up and push down on the pedals, rather push forward at the top and pull back at the bottom, you can easily do that with some flats with pins.
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10-08-23, 05:21 AM
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While it's true that you only get a real improvement in sprint performance and very short efforts like a minute anaerobic full up effort up a short hill... "just sprint power"
Good luck racing without that, even at the level of smashing it on a group ride for bragging rights. The sub 1 minute stuff is a significant part of your performance envelope and it's silly to ignore it. Lose the group on a sharp short climb, your FTP isn't important, you are finishing after them with the next group or stragglers.
Sure, got flats on my commuter / gravel bike, also have a power meter on it, can confirm FTP is the same but sub 1 min and especially sprint isn't). Road pedals will assist you get the maximum performance from your road bike and it has been thoroughly proven.
"Only" sprint power, it isn't insignificant 😉
Good luck racing without that, even at the level of smashing it on a group ride for bragging rights. The sub 1 minute stuff is a significant part of your performance envelope and it's silly to ignore it. Lose the group on a sharp short climb, your FTP isn't important, you are finishing after them with the next group or stragglers.
Sure, got flats on my commuter / gravel bike, also have a power meter on it, can confirm FTP is the same but sub 1 min and especially sprint isn't). Road pedals will assist you get the maximum performance from your road bike and it has been thoroughly proven.
"Only" sprint power, it isn't insignificant 😉
Last edited by Branko D; 10-08-23 at 05:31 AM.
10-08-23, 07:45 AM
#38
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Outside of sprint situations, clipless performance advantages are negligible. GCN did a couple of videos on the subject. Some trainers say to not consciously pull up and push down on the pedals, rather push forward at the top and pull back at the bottom, you can easily do that with some flats with pins.
10-08-23, 07:45 AM
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While it's true that you only get a real improvement in sprint performance and very short efforts like a minute anaerobic full up effort up a short hill... "just sprint power"
Good luck racing without that, even at the level of smashing it on a group ride for bragging rights. The sub 1 minute stuff is a significant part of your performance envelope and it's silly to ignore it. Lose the group on a sharp short climb, your FTP isn't important, you are finishing after them with the next group or stragglers.
Sure, got flats on my commuter / gravel bike, also have a power meter on it, can confirm FTP is the same but sub 1 min and especially sprint isn't). Road pedals will assist you get the maximum performance from your road bike and it has been thoroughly proven.
"Only" sprint power, it isn't insignificant 😉
Good luck racing without that, even at the level of smashing it on a group ride for bragging rights. The sub 1 minute stuff is a significant part of your performance envelope and it's silly to ignore it. Lose the group on a sharp short climb, your FTP isn't important, you are finishing after them with the next group or stragglers.
Sure, got flats on my commuter / gravel bike, also have a power meter on it, can confirm FTP is the same but sub 1 min and especially sprint isn't). Road pedals will assist you get the maximum performance from your road bike and it has been thoroughly proven.
"Only" sprint power, it isn't insignificant 😉
Few people are regularly making full bore sprint efforts out on the road where they might exceed the limits of a good flat pedal. Crit racing is probably the exception and all those racers will be clipped in as a matter of course. If your racing events are more endurance based then losing the very top end of your sprint power is not going to be a big deal. But I still prefer clipless road pedals and shoes and don’t find it difficult to unclip. Walking in cleats is less than ideal, but I don’t walk far when I’m road biking.
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10-08-23, 08:11 AM
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There were granfondos I was in - the definition of endurance group racing (you pin a number, it's timed, and even if you aren't going to be on the podium, you'll compare your time to your mates, which makes it a "competitive" race) - where hanging with the group for a single sharp climb or not was the determining factor which group you're going to end with. Whatever your sprint and anaerobic power is, you will improve it on the road where grip and so on isn't an issue with clipless. My point is, there's a good reason why a certain type of pedal is sold as a road pedal and people who try to justify their perfectly valid choice to use flat pedals by saying it doesn't matter are simply wrong.
Last edited by Branko D; 10-08-23 at 08:15 AM.
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10-08-23, 11:00 AM
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Thank you for letting me know that certain clis do not hinder foot release.
The occasions where I use my feet usually is where a tire is sliding across the road, and the bike will go down if I don't save it with my leg. This sliding happens in web spots i don't notice or an odd shape in the surface of the road, like a little cliff of pavement were works has been going on.
The occasions where I use my feet usually is where a tire is sliding across the road, and the bike will go down if I don't save it with my leg. This sliding happens in web spots i don't notice or an odd shape in the surface of the road, like a little cliff of pavement were works has been going on.
...at the same time, perhaps you should look into riding routes that aren't so slick you are afraid you will crash?
...or buy some better tires?
...or don't ride thru perpetually slick spots?
I can't imagine road riding conditions where I am constantly concerned I will lose traction on my tires. That has to be really unnerving.
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10-08-23, 01:07 PM
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Also, I wonder how much they savage the shin when accidentally spun back into the leg? I occasionally do this and certain pedals have me bleeding impressively.
10-13-23, 07:11 PM
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Read The Midlife Cyclist, or, at the very least read this review of the book.
Book Review: The MidLife Cyclist by Phil Cavell – The Cycling Independent
Since I bought it I read it constantly. Mr. Cavell knows bikes and people and how they interface and can explain that clearly. Since reading this I ride flat pedals on my off road bikes, my single speeds and on my road bikes.
I feel this has improved my cycling performance and my enjoyment of riding.
Knee pain I had is gone, I can get off the bike and do a hike or walk down to see the view when cycling the mountains..
His detailed explanation of why the theory of peddle lift using clips is anatomically impossible.is very interesting, His writings on cycling have the ring of truth to them.
Book Review: The MidLife Cyclist by Phil Cavell – The Cycling Independent
Since I bought it I read it constantly. Mr. Cavell knows bikes and people and how they interface and can explain that clearly. Since reading this I ride flat pedals on my off road bikes, my single speeds and on my road bikes.
I feel this has improved my cycling performance and my enjoyment of riding.
Knee pain I had is gone, I can get off the bike and do a hike or walk down to see the view when cycling the mountains..
His detailed explanation of why the theory of peddle lift using clips is anatomically impossible.is very interesting, His writings on cycling have the ring of truth to them.
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Last edited by bykemike; 10-13-23 at 07:17 PM.
10-14-23, 02:49 PM
#44
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Read The Midlife Cyclist, or, at the very least read this review of the book.
Book Review: The MidLife Cyclist by Phil Cavell – The Cycling Independent
Since I bought it I read it constantly. Mr. Cavell knows bikes and people and how they interface and can explain that clearly. Since reading this I ride flat pedals on my off road bikes, my single speeds and on my road bikes.
I feel this has improved my cycling performance and my enjoyment of riding.
Knee pain I had is gone, I can get off the bike and do a hike or walk down to see the view when cycling the mountains..
His detailed explanation of why the theory of peddle lift using clips is anatomically impossible.is very interesting, His writings on cycling have the ring of truth to them.
Book Review: The MidLife Cyclist by Phil Cavell – The Cycling Independent
Since I bought it I read it constantly. Mr. Cavell knows bikes and people and how they interface and can explain that clearly. Since reading this I ride flat pedals on my off road bikes, my single speeds and on my road bikes.
I feel this has improved my cycling performance and my enjoyment of riding.
Knee pain I had is gone, I can get off the bike and do a hike or walk down to see the view when cycling the mountains..
His detailed explanation of why the theory of peddle lift using clips is anatomically impossible.is very interesting, His writings on cycling have the ring of truth to them.
I have no problem with someone using flats on a road bike, but can’t imagine riding properly without cleats myself. I use spd/flat flippers on my commuting bike and Looks on my gravel and road bikes. As the OP managed to deal with the horror show of foot clips, I’d expect he’d easily handle clipping out quickly when needed. But as above, that frequency of tyres sliding out sounds very alarming. I’ve fallen 5 times (in total and also that were too fast to unclip and flats would not have helped) in 12 years. 2 of those were my fault from handling / awareness mistakes, 2 were on ice (yeah I shouldn’t have gone out so really falls into category one) and once was a driver’s fault.
Last edited by choddo; 10-14-23 at 03:09 PM.
10-14-23, 07:46 PM
#45
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I did a couple thousand miles this year on road-bikes with flat pedals. It is a popular belief that clipless pedals/shoes are a big advantage over flat pedals, but that is all it is, a belief. Also, the only time I hit the ground this year was when my clipless equipment did not release when I needed it to at very low speeds and I fell over on pavement, gravel etc.. Next season I may use flats exclusively. It is really nice to just jump on a bike and go and not have to mess with clipless equipment, and then there is it's cost which like everything else is getting ridiculous.
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10-14-23, 11:42 PM
#46
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Having ridden clipless (SPD-SL) for almost a year now, another advantage is less energy wasted compressing the soles of my shoes per pedal stroke.
I am now so used to clipless that I am about to install clipless (SPD) on my gravel bike too. I do not ride on really gnarly terrain.
I am now so used to clipless that I am about to install clipless (SPD) on my gravel bike too. I do not ride on really gnarly terrain.
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10-15-23, 05:48 PM
#47
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I just spent over a month on flat pedals because of a broken big toe (not broken on bike but I keep re-breaking it on the bike), my podiatrist and i agreed that I could use flat pedals after the bone starting growing back, having the pressure on the balls of your feet and unclipping were what was causing the re=breaking.
I have never been so happy to get back to clipless. Yes, for me there was a big difference, your foot felt more secure and locked in, and yes my speed did increase back some after going back to cllipless (I was off the bike totally for nearly a month, so I was a little slower in general, but when I went back to clipless my speed increased nearly .5 mph compared to tennis shoes and flat pedals.
Of course part of it is the much stiffer soul of my bike shoes compared to tennis shoes, but all I know is a MUCH better connection to the bike with clipless compared to flat pedals
I have never been so happy to get back to clipless. Yes, for me there was a big difference, your foot felt more secure and locked in, and yes my speed did increase back some after going back to cllipless (I was off the bike totally for nearly a month, so I was a little slower in general, but when I went back to clipless my speed increased nearly .5 mph compared to tennis shoes and flat pedals.
Of course part of it is the much stiffer soul of my bike shoes compared to tennis shoes, but all I know is a MUCH better connection to the bike with clipless compared to flat pedals
10-16-23, 07:08 AM
#49
Senior Member
A problem? No not at all. Retention is good enough for mtb and its very comfortable if the pins are not too tall (most are imo, but options are available). They are great for urban riding with the occasional red light etc. and you can wear almost any shoe you like, on and off the bike. Of course ppl will flame you and claim you be slow, slip off the pedal and die, or what ever, but it really isnt true. Been riding flats for a looong time and see no real benefit to clipless in a casual/exercise application. The downsides are real tho. ppl do fall over and hurt themselves. I like the shimano xt flat with short pins.
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10-16-23, 08:08 AM
#50
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I just use lightweight nylon pedals on my Litespeed Tuscany & Vortex. they work fine for my casual riding.
