jtarver

I'm building my first set of wheels soon. I've been amassing all the pieces over time. Here's what I have: Dura Ace 7400 32 Hole Hubs(8 Speed Rear), Ambrosio Super Elite Clincher Rims, Park TS-2 Truing stand. A couple questions I have for the Gurus: I got these lengths using the spoke calculator provided by someone in this forum(sorry, I forgot the name, but thanks, well, thanks if it's correct)
Front- 302.5 Rear-L-301.35,R-299.82. Do these sound plausible and if so, can I just get all 301 to make them easier to keep track of? What DT spokes are the most correct for this era? And finally, I am considering buying a tensionometer, I assume I'll build more wheels in the future, will it make my life way easier? Thanks in advance. J

jtarver

Oops, forgot to mention I'm doing 3 cross.

iab

SpoCalc is what I use for calculating length, works well.

The 301s should be fine. DT Swiss should be fine or, a little harder to find in the US but easy in the UK, ACI Alpina would be good for db spokes. As for the tensionometer, it is kind of a pricey checking tool. When tensioning spokes, it is easier and faster to pluck the spokes and listen to the tone they make. Obviously, they all should be the same (although the front will sound different from rear driveside which is different from rear non-driveside). If you need a baseline, use an already trued wheel as a reference.

Good luck, it is a bit maddening but fun the first couple of wheels.

jtarver

I've been studying up for awhile. I'm competent enough to lace it, just seems like the rest is a feel thing. You can't really study that, hence the tensionometer. Maybe you're right, the tensionometer seems a bit obtrusive to the process...

King of Kadence

I like having a tension tool. I could probably grunt out a set of wheels without it, but it's nice knowing exactly how tight and even a wheel can be.

iab

I don't know about obtrusive, but they are expensive.

What it is good for is a check, to match a tone with a tension value. It can be easy to over or under tension, this takes out the guess work. Tone can vary by tension, spoke length and spoke type and for your first build, it can be frutrating. It can't hurt to borrow one.

USAZorro

You can go with 301's for the front and non-drive-side, but I'd use 299 for the drive side. You won't get adequate tension using 301's on that side.

Panthers007

For $60ish for a Park Tension-meter, and you already shelled out $$$ for the TS-2, I suggest you get one. I build wheels. Have since '84. And I can't figure out any pitch when plucked. Maybe a course in music-theory instead? Nope - I suggest getting the meter.

jtarver

Yeah, I am kinda tone deaf. I'm watching a couple on the Bay. I wish there was a mid range truing stand, but it seems to me that the budget models are just going to lead to an upgrade situation. I hate having to upgrade! Hence my love of vintage bikes, upgrading is frowned upon, I love it.

miamijim

??? Sure he will. 301's on both sides of the rear will be fine. The only difference will be the amount of thread engagement which has nothing to do with tension. There's nothing wrong with a spoke being 1mm below the nipple slot or 1mm above it. 'Spoc calcs' are designed so both sides end up with the spoke ends at the bottom of the nipple slot. Its more of an aesthetic thing than anything else.


A thread rod or bolt reaches its maximum holding power once 3X its diamter has been engaged by the nut/nipple. 2.0mm spokes need 6mm of engagment to reach the maximum holding power....that doesnt mean 4mm of engagment is bad.

A standard 2.0mm DT spoke nipple has 6mm of engagement when the bottom of the nipple is even with the bottom of the threads. At this point the end of the spoke is ~1mm below the slot in the nipple.

USAZorro

I guess that is only 1.2mm of difference, and the nipples wouldn't bottom out - but there may be a bit of poking up on some of them that might require a bit of filing at the end. Still, I'd go with 299's or 300's if they were available.

Spoke measuring tools are your friend.

UprightJoe

I recently read Jobst Brandt's book "The Bicycle Wheel". Based on his book, my impression was that a tensionometer is only useful if you're building multiple sets of wheels using the same components. Different spokes, rims, hubs, and lacing patterns require different amounts of tension so until you've built one wheel with that combination, you don't know what the ideal tension is.

If I recall correctly, he recommends slowly increasing spoke tension until the rim develops a large wave and is on the verge of taco'ing, then backing the tension off slightly. I think he said with modern rims, sometimes the nipples become difficult to tighten prior to this happening. In this case, you're probably at an acceptable tension and don't need to tighten the spokes any further.

I've built a couple of wheels now using this method and it seems to be working out fine so far.

miamijim

Thats a good technique. What I do is thread each nipple to bottom of the threads then back each off 3 turns or so. Doing them one at time this will set all of the nipples in the same place. From that point I tighten exactly the same amount. when the wheels gets a fait amount of tension I'll do a rough true by loosening whatever ones I need to and I'll set a rough 'dish' at this point.

From there I'll repeat the process. 1 turn all the way around, set the true and dish. Repeat. As tension builds you may only need to do a half or quarter turn.

miamijim

I've been looking at some DT's here's what it looks like. When the nipples threaded on to cover the threads the end of the spoke is ~2mm below the slot. This is OK because there's adeqeute engagement of the threading of ~6mm. Based on that is clearly evident spokes ~2mm too short can be used.

If I fully engage the nipple (bottm it out) the spoke end is 2mm beyond the bottom of the slot and peeking out of the top of the nipple. The peeking out is no problem if your using double eyleted/double walled rims. With a single walled rim it may or may be an issue in regards to poking a tube. It clear that 1mm too long is OK while 2 is borderline.

I only buy precut spokes because of the inconsistency of hand cur and threaded spokes. Cut me 36 spokes by hand and I'll gaurantee they vary by at least 1mm.

Jim 2,000+ wheel builds and counting.

mparker326

Just get the 299's for the ds. It isn't that hard to keep track of different length spokes. You don't want to have to reorder spokes after you start your build just in case the 301's wind up being to long.

mudboy

I'd go with 302's and 299's for the rear drive side.