Wheel dishing problem
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Earlville, IL
Posts: 660
Bikes: Some Schwinns, Raleighs, Centurions, Crescent, Bianchi
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times
in
125 Posts
Wheel dishing problem
I just rebuilt the wheels on my 78 Schwinn Superior using the original Weinmann 27" rims and Schwinn Approved Deluxe / Normandy Luxe 36 hole hubs. The old spokes were corroded, and I wanted to bring back the shine like when it was new in 79 when I bought it. I measured the old spokes and found that the ds and nds were both 306mm so that's what I used to rebuild them. They are 4 cross btw. This was just my fourth set of wheels that I've built, and the first that used the same length for both sides. When I was done with the back wheel, it was off centered with the frame by quite a bit so I took it to the lbs for their advice. They said you need to tighten the ds more to pull it over which made sense, so I just had them do it for me. It's better but still not centered. Should I re-lace the ds with shorter spokes, and how much shorter?
The wheel was properly centered before I rebuilt it so I know the frame is good. Here's a pic of it. It's not bad and it rides ok but it's not centered like it was.
The wheel was properly centered before I rebuilt it so I know the frame is good. Here's a pic of it. It's not bad and it rides ok but it's not centered like it was.
#2
Really Old Senior Member
Loosen the NDS spokes some.
On a multi cog rear wheel, the NDS spokes have a greater effect due to the bracing angle being different than the DS.
On a multi cog rear wheel, the NDS spokes have a greater effect due to the bracing angle being different than the DS.
#3
Junior Member
Drive and non-drive side spokes should be a couple of mm different, but those old hubs might have required so much less dish that the factory used the same length spokes to save money. Any reasonable mechanic should be able to re-dish that wheel; a proper dishing tool makes it straightforward.
#4
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,627
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,577 Posts
Try flipping the wheel in the dropouts to see if the rim is still too far to the left, or if it is now too far to the right.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Earlville, IL
Posts: 660
Bikes: Some Schwinns, Raleighs, Centurions, Crescent, Bianchi
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times
in
125 Posts
Drive and non-drive side spokes should be a couple of mm different, but those old hubs might have required so much less dish that the factory used the same length spokes to save money. Any reasonable mechanic should be able to re-dish that wheel; a proper dishing tool makes it straightforward.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,785
Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1079 Post(s)
Liked 1,019 Times
in
719 Posts
This, or run a string from one dropout to the headtube, and down to the other dropout. If the distance between the string and the seat tube is different on both sides the rear isn't straight.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Earlville, IL
Posts: 660
Bikes: Some Schwinns, Raleighs, Centurions, Crescent, Bianchi
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times
in
125 Posts
I haven't checked the frame for straightness but I've had it since new and it's never been crashed. If it has 200 miles on it I'd be surprised. I didn't ride it much and only got it out of storage a few years ago.
#8
Senior Member
Use truing stand and dishing tool.
Spoke lengths should be calculated based on hub and rim measurement.
Spoke lengths should be calculated based on hub and rim measurement.
#9
Really Old Senior Member
It's the difference in spoke tension that causes the dish.
Back off the NDS spokes a bit. You probably don't need more than 1/4-1/2 turn.
It's either tighten DS or loosen NDS spokes.
Once your DS spokes get too tight, you only have one other alternative.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,940
Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1301 Post(s)
Liked 1,903 Times
in
1,137 Posts
76SLT,
If memory serves me right all of those old five speed Schwinns were built with the same size spokes. Back then they were using 12-1/8" spokes made by Union and all of the wheels were four cross patterns. The difference was that the wheel build required a difference of about two turns of each spoke less on the non drive side than the drive side. As BK points out it is fairly easy from an engineering mindset, But to put it lay terms: one side is not tightened as much as the other, and in this case it is about two turns of the spokes on the NDS. HTH, MH
If memory serves me right all of those old five speed Schwinns were built with the same size spokes. Back then they were using 12-1/8" spokes made by Union and all of the wheels were four cross patterns. The difference was that the wheel build required a difference of about two turns of each spoke less on the non drive side than the drive side. As BK points out it is fairly easy from an engineering mindset, But to put it lay terms: one side is not tightened as much as the other, and in this case it is about two turns of the spokes on the NDS. HTH, MH
Last edited by Mad Honk; 02-24-20 at 11:23 PM.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,186
Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 472 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times
in
404 Posts
I prefer ensuring, first, that the rim is centered over the lock nuts. Then, knowing that is fine, see how it does in the frame, is the frame or fork ok?
Likes For Prowler:
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Earlville, IL
Posts: 660
Bikes: Some Schwinns, Raleighs, Centurions, Crescent, Bianchi
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times
in
125 Posts
You all had great advice, and with that advice I was able to make adjustments that resulted in a perfectly centered wheel. Thank you all.
Bernie
Bernie
Likes For 76SLT: