benjamin163

Hello,
does anyone have any strong opinions either way on hydraulic gear shifting systems as opposed to cable ones or electronic ones?
I have only ever ridden with cable shifters but I'm interested in a bike which has hydraulic ones fitted and I wondered what the pros and cons are.
Any opinions gratefully received.

Pratt

A non sequitur at the very least.
I'd like to hear about hydraulic shift linkages

tyrion

The only hydraulic shifting system I've heard of is by Rotor and it's real expensive. The review I've seen says it doesn't give a definitive "click" feedback on shift.

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/co...oupset-review/

badger1

Indeed! The individual in question appears to be posting randomly into several threads at the moment.

On topic: it's unlikely you will get many substantive responses. The only current such system I'm aware of is Rotor's, both road and mtb, but there appears to have been fairly limited -- if any -- take-up on the consumer side so far. There are press reviews/articles, easily searched, but aside from that I think it doubtful you'll find any real-world user accounts.

Could be wrong.

noglider 

I'm of the strong opinion that hydraulic shifting does not exist. Therefore it has no advantages. It also has no disadvantages.

datlas 

It exists. Rotor as mentioned above. But it’s a solution in search of a problem IMO.

Marcus_Ti

Well it does solve a problem....but not a consumer-side one. Hydraulic shifting was invented because of all the steel-cable-pull-derailleur IP patents that basically make it impossible to make a derailleur without paying licensing to Shimano or Campag.

veganbikes

I haven't tried it yet but I dig the concept. I personally really love my UDi2 set up on my Ti road bike and cannot really see much improvement on that aside from allowing the software to allow MTB rear derailleurs to work with road front derailleurs on either shifters. The Wireless is a neat concept but charging a bunch of batteries plus having little cell batteries is just not my thing.

Hydraulic sounds like it could be pretty neat in providing really solid shifting with lower maintenance and I always love those who try and get into the market and come up with something new. I had been interested in trying the ACROS system back when it was available but never went for it and then it was sold out. Plus the idea of more gears on a 1x system is intriguing. If someone gave me a chance to try something with the Rotor system I would happily jump on it. Same thing with the FSA WE gruppo. I love Shimano but always love seeing companies trying to go up against the big guy. It helps drive innovation and provides unique opportunities to see something different because you have to find a way around patents and such so it requires creativitiy.

Russ Roth

I'd happily buy the rotor system this fall but I'm not doing 1x on a cross bike that will be used on and off road. Doesn't matter what any manufacturer tries to claim, 1x isn't versatile enough for a versatile bike

benjamin163

There's not much out there granted but here's a couple of things...

https://rotorbike.com/5-advantages-o...gear-shifting/

Interesting concept, I wonder if it will catch on.

benjamin163

What a strange reply!
I love cycling but I'm no expert clearly.
I come on here to get help from people who are enthusiastic and want to give help and discuss.
I have started three threads. One on how to detect whether your cassette is worn.
One on advice for great bike locks out there.
And one on any opinions on hydraulic braking systems out there.
I guess technically you could call them 'random posts' given that they are different subjects from one another but it feels from your tone that they are somehow not worthy of being posted or are a waste of people's time.
Given that I have received helpful, knowledgable answers on each of the three threads I have put up, I think I'll carry on my way thanks, even if it's too 'random' for you!
Cheers.

benjamin163

For your perusal...
https://rotorbike.com/5-advantages-o...gear-shifting/

benjamin163

This is great, thanks for sharing.

badger1

Ah ... apologies, but you've got the wrong end of the stick. The reference in the post I quoted (from @Pratt), and replied to, was not to your original post, but to that of yet another member. That post was indeed an absurd non sequitur, and appears now to have been deleted. My second paragraph was in response to @Pratt and to your original post, and was an attempt to provide information.

Drew Eckhardt 

It's a good idea but doesn't rule out implementation issues.

The move to road brake.shift units with under bar tape routing and hoods level with bar tops added a tight ninety degree guide which cut cable life in half. Rear cables fail in 2000 miles when you shift a lot.

Hydraulic avoids that and doesn't have batteries to charge.

However, practical realizations may have worse flaws. Shift mechanisms for multi-ring bikes should let you arrive at the next sequential gear on the next ring in a pair of simultaneous motions. The escapement mechanisms in Shimano, SRAM, and Campagnolo levers don't allow that moving to the small ring because they can only shift one cog smaller per lever actuation.

The Rotor system has no front derailleur so it's impossible to have both wide range and closely spaced gears. I wouldn't buy it.

Kapusta

Put me in the “solution looking for a problem” camp.

I would not run these if you GAVE them to me. One more thing to leak, take on air, and bleed........ no freaking way.

There are solid reasons for using hydraulics for brake lines. These don’t apply to shifting.

rosefarts

I would have a few concerns.

First, durability. My guess is that it's more durable but harder to repair than cable actuated.

Adjustability. Same concern as above. It's probably not difficult but it's a whole new skill set than most of us have learned.

Is there any drawback to 13 speeds? How is that chain?

Can these be stored on their side, upside down, or vertical. I know that was a concern with the old Magura rim brakes. Not sure how it effects modern hydraulics.

benjamin163

ah, I'm so sorry, my misunderstanding. And thank you for your patience in putting me right!

benjamin163

Having just got my head round the mechanics of hydraulic breaking, I may be getting a bit too excited about hydraulics in general!
Have you ever used electronic shifting? If so would you recommend?

badger1

No worries! Back on topic, and fwiw: I tend to agree with those who see something like the Rotor system as a 'solution looking for a problem'. At the prices asked, electronic shifting (any of the Big 3) is getting so refined/efficient that an attempt to create a hydraulic alternative seems somewhat pointless. This seems to me particularly the case when so many cyclists purchasing in the mid and upper ranges of the market are integrating shifting into a larger electronic environment: measurement; 'virtual' cycling', and the like.

And from the perspective of a keen but recreational cyclist with no interest in that electronic environment, or desire for electronic shifting itself, mechanical shifting is now so refined and effortless (especially, to my mind, Shimano's) at the mid and upper range that a hydraulic system strikes me, again, as pointless.

Kapusta

Have not used electronic shifting. I am not interested in electronic shifting for myself, but in that case I at least see some advantages.

I just don't see any advantage of hydraulics, here. Only potential downsides.

Hydraulics do a very good job of smoothy and accurately transmitting a lot of force through a line. This is very important with brakes, as they require a lot of force and controlling the AMOUNT of force is just as important. With shifter lines, there is little force involved. What matters is not the delivery of force, but the precise position of of the cable after each shift. In other words, the main advantages of hydro don't really help you in a shifting situation. So what are you gaining with hydraulics?

Meanwhile, I suspect the downsides are worse for shifters. One of the biggest problems with hydros is getting air in the lines. However, a little bit is not the end of the world, and even if you get enough to need to do a bleed, the brakes usually still work until you do the bleed. I am highly dubious of how well a hydraulic shifting system is going to be able to accurately shift with an air bubble in the lines, and thus leaving you kind of screwed until you can do a bleed.

Ogsarg

In just a few years, electronic shifting will get lighter and much less expensive. With it's versatility, ease of maintenance, and ability to customize, it will likely become the dominant shifting method. Hydraulics, even if they perform flawlessly, will not be competitive.

Phil_gretz

I'm speechless at this. Please describe your background in mechanical engineering or controls design. This sounds like quite a bit of complexity and multi-point failures to me.

Kapusta

I was not aware this was a requirement for posting on BF

joelcool

I'd love to try Rotor's system. Electronic systems address cable system's cable stretch issue, but you have to charge them. Hydraulic seems to address cable stretch and not introduce the whole electronic thing.
The biggest issue with hydraulic is that almost no one seems to use it. I put a post up here recently and apparently no one on these forums uses it.
I'm currently using cables and trying to get better at adjustment. It's not as easy as most on here would lead one to believe.