robow

Couldn't agree more with this. I had a couple sets of Axiom panniers that I used for years which had pockets galore but I found it didn't really help me keep things organized any better, and that was if I could find something that actually fit in the pockets.

Pratt

I have Ortliebs, front and rear, on one bike and I'm pretty satisfied.
The other bike has vintage Bob Beckman's, about 30years old. They are also very satisfactory. If he is still in business, check him out. He has a nifty system of add ons to expand the volume of the panniers. Perhaps too engineered and too spendy for some tastes.
Both sets have exemplary, if entirely different, mounting systems. They are simple, strong and quick to mount and unmount.

Happy Feet

I also prefer one big bag instead of multiple pockets. I organize using nylon stuffsacks that I can expand or shrink as needed. It is the same with backpacking and kayaking - often with the same gear being used for each.

Over the years I've come to really dislike zippers as a failure point so the rolltop/drawstring method works for me. I even dislike fastex snap buckles as they are often sown in on one end and need to be cut out and sewn back to repair. .. thought those were marketed as supposedly unbreakable

Tourist in MSN

One more thing, if the rear panniers are too far back, that puts the weight further behind the rear axle and a tail wagging the dog feeling can develop on the bike if you have much weight in them. So, rear panniers should be mounted as far forward as you can without impairing heel clearance.

I use my Ortliebs on three different bikes, and each bike has a different chainstay length. That means that each time I tour on a different bike than I had used last time I am re-adjusting my rear panniers fore or aft to have adequate but not excessive heel clearance.

It can help if you label the panniers right and left. I use a bit of colored tape on each pannier for that purpose, different colors for right and left.

Doug64

This really helps when the panniers are off the bike or when putting the panniers on the bike. I use a red zip tie for the port side bag and a green zip tie for the starboard bag.

Tourist in MSN

Same color scheme as me, hard to confuse the running light colors.

takenreasy

An Ortliebgy?

dmeans2anend

My comment probably comes too late since you have already ordered your Ortlieb panniers but as you can tell from the BF community, the Ortlieb brand is quite popular. I love it as well.

I ended up buying my rear Ortlieb rear panniers for about $50 for the pair on CL from a college kid and the Ortlieb Handlebar bag for about $40 on CL from another guy that had a folding bike. Both items were nearly new. I think some people invest in these panniers and after a season of touring, realize that touring is not quite their cup of tea or they only had time for one tour. I was going to suggest that you look for the Ortlieb panniers on Craigslist, Ebay, Offerup, or the like. You can often find them for really great deals (50% to 70% off) versus the retail prices on these things since they can be quite expensive especially if you are trying to get a whole touring kit together. I did this a couple of years ago for my tour down the Pacific Coast. I was able to get a lot of 'high end' gear together for the trip within my budget. I've learned from years of backpacking that buying the best gear that you can within your budget will eliminate a lot of problems and issues down the road. By buying used, I was able to get all the top gear that I needed.

With respect to waterproofing, even though I had an Ortlieb bag that was waterproof, I'm one that believes in light weight redundancy. Therefore, I used a Large garbage bag that (weigh nothing) inside the Ortlieb bag as added protection (of down sleeping bag and jacket) and then used different super light weight color coded dry bags like the Sea To Summit Ultra Sil as compartments for easy identification. I'm not an advocate for lots of pockets on the pannier as it simply adds unnecessary weight IMHO but others may feel differently.

Cons of the Ortlieb Handlebar Bag: First, I love this bag but one downside that I have not been able to resolve yet, is how to mount my headlight? I know that Ortlieb sells a special mounting adapter for the bag but I'm simply too cheap to want to pay $25 + tax + $10 shipping = $40 to get this plastic adapter so that I can mount my headlights on the bike and have the light (Nite Rider Lumina 900) high enough so that the bag does not interfere with the beam of the light. I don't do night riding so the value of these plastic pieces for $40 just seem like flushing good money down the toilet. I mount my lights for safety and for tunnels. Has anyone found a cheap option? I have not been able to find any used one. I've looked at other extension bars to mount onto the handlebar but they seem too short to get above the Ortlieb handlebar bag. I would greatly appreciate an affordable alternative.

robow

From a couple different rides a few years back. Play the game, which one doesn't belong ?

Tourist in MSN

Your frame size is quite small, so you might not have much room between your handlebar bag and your tire, not sure if there is room under the bar bag for a light. Does your light have a fork crown mount?

Given the room you have, I am sure this would not fit.
https://www.amazon.com/Front-Light-E...dp/B01GJFS2PE/

B&M makes some fork crown light mounts for some of their lights.

Cateye makes one too.
https://www.amazon.com/CatEye-CFB-10...dp/B00X4SH0XU/

A metal one like the Cateye can be bent to give you more room if necessary.

I assume your fork does not have mid-fork mounting points for a rack, if you had that you could mount a llght on that.

I think these are too low, anything on the road (leaves, etc.) makes huge shadows. But if all else fails, one of these plus a helmet mounted light might work well.
https://www.amazon.com/M-Wave-Quick-...dp/B016NY5T2A/

Now that I think of it, your fork I think is carbon, so it might not even have a fork crown mount.

On most of my bikes, I have enough room between bag and tire for a light, example.

dmeans2anend

Tourist in MSN: Thank you for the ideas. I did think about adding it to under the bar bag but unfortunately, my CycloLite Metro (guess its not a Niterider) sits up way too high up and with the adapter mount since there is just not enough clearance as you have indicated.

Here is some photos of my setup. Sorry for the bad photos. I'm not too good with photos.









Oh, thank you!!! I like the idea of the last resort with mounting on the quick skewer. I've seen it in photos but I could NEVER find it on Amazon or Ebay to locate one. It's a good last resort option for me since it is way better than me having to take off the Ortlieb handlebar bag every time that I want to mount the CycloLite to use it in order to see the light ahead. Ideally, I would love the light to sit high up on the handlebar instead of so low on the bike. Ultimately, I guess I need to figure out if it is worth the additional $25 more to me for the specific Ortlieb adapater ($40) to get it to work just the way I want it too or to find an alternate subpar method for about 1/3 the cost ($15) and not be as happy. It seems they always get you one way or the other to part with your money.

Tourist in MSN

I have a light down low on my errand bike. I picked up a dynohub wheel at a bike charity for $10 that someone had donated to them. And I had a spare old light on the shelf, easiest wiring job I have ever done.




My point here is that I have experience with how low that light is, but it is on the bike I ride to the grocery store so it is on well lit streets that I already know well. I mostly use it as a to-be-seen light so oncoming traffic can see me.

But if you had a second light strapped to your helmet with a velco strap, you should have good lighting from the pair of lights. And since you do not normally tour at night, for the little bit of usage they would get, should work well.

Some people use those skewer mounts to use a headlight in flash mode to make sure that oncoming traffic can see you, they certainly are well positioned for that purpose.

Touring, I do not use a front light during daytime. In fact I use a headlamp so little when touring that on my last tour I had a cheap one that I could strap onto my handlebar with an elastic, but never used it. The only times I can remember using a front light when touring was going through tunnels.

Doug64

My wife and I use a system similar to Tourist in MSN; Good rear light and carry a headlamp. The headlamp is mostly to be visible to vehical drivers. We have needed to ride in the dark a few time, and the headlamp worked OK.

Our train was late, and we arrived in Vancouver, BC at midnight. We had reservations at a B&B so went looking for it. It was actually a pretty nice ride. That same scenario happened twice to us going to Vancouver. The second time we were staying at the same B&B, so finding it in the dark was not as much of a challenge.



I use a Night Rider front light for riding down to the Gym on winter mornings, but I don't have a bar bag on the bike, and mount it on my handle bars. I don't usually carry it on tours.

Tourist in MSN

I have three touring bikes, one is S&S coupled.

The S&S bike is a hassle to pack and unpack, even the water bottle cages have to come off, fork out of the frame, etc. So, I have quit installing a headlamp on the bike when I tour on that. The light I brought on my last tour that I never used is this one, strap it to the handlebar with an elastic:



No battery in it. Just a USB cord. I keep a powerbank (pass through cache battery pack for my dynohub) in my handlebar bag, can run the light off of that if needed. Light was less than $10 USD. Flashlight type of beam, round beam, not a sharp cut off so it is not the best bike light, but one that I can see well enough with at night. At low power setting takes about the same amount of power as my dynohub puts out so not a big power drain.

My other touring bikes, one has a dyno powered headlight on it (photo in post 35 above), the other one I put a dyno powered light on it when I tour. But the tours on those two bikes either started at my front door or the bikes were transported on the back of a vehicle to the starting point. Thus, those bikes were not packed for shipping.

But touring, I almost always have one and occasionally two flashing taillights turned on. Those run on a pair of AAA batteries that I recharge weekly. One trip, there was enough rain that one light failed from corrosion, another reason to always carry two taillights on a bike.

I have no clue why the lights were so bright in this photo, perhaps by odd chance they both flashed just as I took the photo.




This thread is on panniers, sorry I am off topic here.

dmeans2anend

Tourist in MSN & Doug64:
Thanks for the photos. It always helps me to see how others setup their rig and learn from it.

Headlight: I think I will go with the quick release mounts on the front wheel as the option for my headlight since I won't be using it much. The 2 times that I used my headlights on the PC ride was when we were going out to town for dinner and it was only a mile or so from the campground.

I sure would love to invest in a dynamo light if I was to commute more around home or do more rides at night. With a Dynamo hub, don't you need a specific wheel that would accommodate the hub? The one advantage for touring would mean no more gathering at the campground's bathroom outlet to charge my bike lights.

Tourist: Do you still have the make and model of that little light that use just the usb? I do carry a power bank with me. I like the idea of carrying a lighter headlight then my heavy Cygolite and have it use the power bank instead. ... But just realize, that may not be an option if I use the quick release mounting on the front wheel.

Rear Light: Currently, I use the Cygolite Hot Spot which is mounted to my seatpost (see stock photo from manufacturer).



It's not in the best position. I would love to mount it on the rear rack instead like both of your photos but my Old Man Mountain rack does not have any accommodation for rear lights (see photo that I got from Google. It's not my bike).

The rear rack top plate sort of curves down a bit near the very end of the bike. I guess I could drill some holes and possibly figure out a way to zip tie it all but no quite happy with that idea. I know some rear racks have mounting lips to add a light. Is this what you are using? Would you have better suggestions. I can't use the Quick Release option because I am using the Old Man Mountain Rack that is using the QR skewer.

Ideally I would like to have the rear light sit higher up so that drivers have higher chance of seeing it. I check Youtube and saw one person using zip ties in order to attach it to the rack but I'm not liking that idea. I would prefer it to be mounted in a lot more securely. Any ideas?

Thank you for the tip on two rear lights. I will definitely do that. I really think the rear lights ARE SO IMPORTANT!!! Especially having ridden in deep fog out on the coast, it made me feel so much safer even though I was wearing a highly reflective safety vest as well. When I was at a scenic pullout, drivers stopped by and stated how much they appreciated how bright my rear lights were.

dmeans2anend

I searched Amazon and I think I found what I'm looking :

Mounting of Cygolite to rear rack (but most drill hole in OMM rear top plate)?

https://www.amazon.com/Cygolite-Rack...4486860&sr=8-1

Cygolite Helmet attachment:

https://www.amazon.com/CygoLite-Expi...4486860&sr=8-4


One downside of touring is that you have to BUY all these plastic adapters and what not to mount things.... pretty soon that $50 light becomes nearly $100. :0) (jk)

Tourist in MSN

Sorry for being off topic, answering a question.

Dynohubs are a hub with a built in alternator. Most were built for rim brakes and conventional quick release, some models come in disc versions and a very small number come with through axle.

I built up my touring bike from parts, thus for me the cost was buying a dynohub minus the cost of the regular hub that I otherwise would have bought, which is really pretty cheap. But once you own a bike with a fully functional wheel, a new dynohub setup is at a minimum the cost of the hub, plus spokes & nipples, and probably a wheel build fee. And in this case it is a good idea to just add a new rim and rim tape so you bought the whole new wheel. Plus, dynohubs usually do not include the skewer, but skewers are cheap.

Also need the USB charger that converts the power from the hub into 5 volt dc current, I use the Sinewave Revolution, that or other options usually run over a hundred bucks.

The USB powered light I bought was on Ebay, shipped from Asia, about $5 or $6 a couple years ago. Now with the federal govt taking an anti-china attitude in trade, plus with problems in shippign with Covid, what used to be cheap and took a month to ship, now costs more and might take three months, plus the probability that it will never arrive has increased. So, if you want one, order it and hope that one day it arrives. This is one Ebay listing, but there are many others too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/T6-LED-Bicy...a/293721833764

Another style:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-CREE-XM...y/392535100668

The one I have, when you plug it in, it is off. One push on the button and it is in high power mode, but some smaller powerbanks do not deliver enough power so it flashes and goes off, so you need a good power bank. Second push on the button is low power mode, I use that to save power. Third push is flashing, and I never use that. Fourth push is off again.

For the light mount on the end of the skewer, I think you should use the light you have.

HOURS LATER I CORRECTED AN ERROR IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH:

I can strap that light on top of the handlebar to the left of the handlebar bag, the light shines ahead between the handlebar bag and my hand and wrist on my left brake hood. My bars are wide enough that there is adequate space for the light beam.

I previously said:
I have strapped that USB powered light that I have to my left side of my handlebar, I strapped it on below the brake lever where the handlebar is vertical, the light physically was between my handlebar and the handlebar bag.
I did that with a different handlebar bag, not the one with the side pockets as shown in the photo.




***

Some taillights come with a smaller diameter mount to use on a seat stay, such as the Planet Bike Superflash lights. I used some of those smaller diameter mounts, and wrapped some rubber cut from an old innertube around my rack to make it thicker so that the seatstay mount would fit and that is how I mounted my taillights on my racks.



My last tour, I wrote up a post on a different forum on my electrics and my experience with them if you are intererested, it is at:
Electrics that I use for bike touring - what works for me.

This writeup was specific for my S&S bike where I do not mount a headlight on it.

Happy Feet

FWIW, the Carradice Carradry HB bag comes with a detachable headlight mount.

sloar 

I don’t mind, but how’d this go from panniers to lights?

Happy Feet

Well... In post 33 dmeans was reviewing his Ortlieb bags, which included a matching HB bag, and noted one negative as not being able to mount his headlight. after that some alternatives were mentioned and...

The usual segway

Tourist in MSN

Thanks for posting, I was unaware of that. That is really neat. But, if your headlight has a shaped beam with a sharp cutoff, putting a light upside down might not be the best option.

Happy Feet

That is true! They could have made it a bit lower. It would be better for those smaller button type lights.

The light shown (AA battery powered) is like that a bit but I usually just have it blinking as a commuter light. On the other side I mount my 700L "headlight" that just shoots a round beam. It is USB powered and I can run a wire to it from a powerbank in the HB bag. During the day the powerbank gets charged from a folding solar panel on the rear rack. Other than charging my IPOD and phone (which I use minimally) I have no other power needs than the light.

dmeans2anend

Tourist: Thanks for all the great info on the Dynohubs. It's neat that you can build your own touring bikes from your great photo examples. No wonder you have so many cool touring bike setup. Thanks for the tip on the seatstay attachment for the rear lights. I think I still may have mine and should be able to do that than order another plastic doohicky from China.

Happy Feet: Thanks for the photo. The option to attach a light at the bottom of the HB Bag is a really great design consideration by Carradice. Even better if they provided an electric USB attachment inside the bag so you can connect it to a small electrical power bank if you choose. That would be really great! Wish I had know that before I got the Ortlieb HB Bag!

Tourist in MSN

I should have mentioned this earlier but forgot to at the time. I have the rear Carradry bags, from the looks of your front bags that are newer than mine they have made a few changes since my rear bags were made.

Mine had a sewn through seam where the label was sewn onto the flap. And water came in. After my trip I have seam sealed that seam so they should be waterproof now.

I bought them for a specific trip where I could not use front panniers, I was going to have a suspension fork on my bike. So, I wanted larger panniers than my Ortliebs. At that time Carradice listed them as 58 liters which is why I bought them. When they arrived, they clearly were larger than the Ortlieb 40 liter panniers, but well below 58. I estimated somewhere closer to 50 liters. I see that now Carradry advertises them at 48, not 58.

The trip I bought them for did not happen. But since I already owned them, every trip I took after that, I considered the Carradry, and finally took them on my Canadian Maritimes tour, five weeks in NS, PEI and NB. One rear pannier met the Air Canada size criteria for a carryon. I added a shoulder strap to carry in the airport.



I bought mine six years ago, I think a few changes to the design have been made since.

In the photo they are on the lower rail of my Tubus Ergo rack. It is a tall pannier. Note that the pannier hangs lower than the rear wheel axle. This is my Rohloff bike, there is no rear derailleur. I use a Racktime Addit rack on my Lynskey which is a derailleur bike and I think the pannier might be too low on that bike if I hang the panniers from the lower rail on that rack, it might hang against the rear derailleur. That would make me nervous, as if I crashed then the pannier might bend or break the derailleur hanger. So, if you get them, consider how well they mount on your rack. If however your rack does not have lower rails for hanging panniers, then there should be no problem, as hanging them from the top of the rack should work well.

Other than size, I think you will like them, but I think you are more of a minimalist packer than me, so you might never fill them up.

Happy Feet

Interesting about the low hanging aspect. It has been many years since I have used larger panniers. I got away from them because of heel strike as I used converted mtbs with shorter chainstays than touring bikes.

The thing I worry about with the carradry rear panniers (besides filling them up) is that pocket with the zipper, a potential failure point to me. Really wish it were just a bag like the Ortliebs. How sturdy does it seem to you?

In some ways I would probably use a second set of front bags (4× front bags) more efficiently than a front/rear set, volume wise, but cring a bit at buying two sets of the same bag. If I get the rears I have the whole shebang!