atxdmd

czr

TMonk

in before "the bike is separate from your effort". Also just b/c your legs are spinning it doesn't mean you're applying power or getting a workout each moment

TMonk

the bike is separate from the effort.

Colnago Mixte

It showed me the amazing range of speed you can get out of just one fixed gear, and just how fast you can go in gears I used to laugh at, like 42x16. You can hit 30 pretty easily in that gear if you really spin it out.

I had gotten lazy with my geared bikes, I would keep the same cadence all the time, and then use my gears to always have my legs turning at the same speed, at all times. That's very bad, I learned, after riding fixed. I vary my cadence a lot more these days on my geared bikes, and spin much faster than I used to when I want to go fast, instead of just dropping into a big gear, and THEN trying to apply power. Bad bad bad.

Riding fixed will definitely clean up your form, but it's easy to crash if you forget you can't coast after hitting an obstacle like a pothole unexpectedly. Your hard-wired knee jerk reactions you'd use on a geared bike won't work, and can cause a serious crash if you don't stay alert.

TMonk

One could argue that the purpose of having a geared bike is so you can maintain a comfortable cadence. Riding a FG is really advantages b/c it can teach you to "spin up" to get to speed which is generally a better way to go. Spin up and then up shift a couple clicks so the gears/leg speed catch up to your acceleration. I have a FG background and race track weekly so that style of riding is ingrained in me.

Still, there are some riders (at all levels) that just prefer to mash a huge gear but hey, whatever works.

TMonk

On that note I'm heading from work to the Thursday Night World champs roadie ride. I can guarantee you that my average speed and cadence will both be very high

Colnago Mixte

If you have the power, I guess it works. But you'd kill the engine in your car pretty quickly if you tried to start out in 3rd or 4th gear. Cars spin up gradually in order to get up to speed, it's much more efficient. Why should a bike be any different.

What I'm wondering with a fixed gear though, is how you handle hitting dips or pot holes in situations where you would otherwise try to level out your pedals like on a geared bike? If you hit a really big one, especially with your pedals in a bad position, what's the drill?

hardboiled718

^ I think the idea is not to be hitting potholes, regardless of what bike you're riding. Keeping an eye on the road and upcoming obstacles is the most important, but if a pothole is unavoidable hopefully you can wheelie over it and shift your weight forward off the back wheel, or bunny hop it. Skidding can be used as a good technique in given situations to control speed and re-orientate your line. But I have to admit I don't think these are things that people actively think about when riding, maybe it just comes with experience

Bandera

If inattentive and riding into a bad patch of pavement one eases a slight bit off of the saddle, look where the bike needs to go and ride right on/over what should have been avoided.
Situational awareness, calm confident bike handling skills and adaptation to the relentless nature of the machine are required for riding FG on the debris strewn badly maintained open public roads.
A FG bike takes more of a beating, as does the rider, since coasting and easing over rough surfaces does not happen and a bunny hop is out of the question.
Riding FG is not for everyone.

edit: Long time/Old School FG road riders have converted road bikes w/ horizontal dropouts to FG for decades. Bikes designed for nimble compliant ride/handing at pace on the rough secondary roads and pave' of European road racing in the '60s-'80's have the geometry and tire width clearance to shrug off surface imperfections that track or modern "track-likes" bikes would find more punishing, destabilizing and unpleasant.

As always, suit yourself.

.-Bandera

TMonk

Huh? I think we're agreeing with each other. At least I certainly agreed with your previous post. By keeping the same cadence (RPM), you have to start from a lower gear. I'm def. an advocate of spinning low gears to create my power.

TimothyH

I don't think it possible to completely relax the legs to the point where they are simply being dragged around by the cranks. It certainly isn't possible for me when riding fixed. There is always some muscle tension needed so that the legs keep up with the cranks.

Even if it were possible, relaxing the legs to the point where they are dead weight being dragged around by the cranks seems incredibly dangerous.


-Tim-

czr

Caliper

Poor analogy. internal combustion engines have a torque curve that is very dependent on RPM. Specifically, they won't run below a given RPM, need more RPM than that to make appreciable torque smoothly and then make more torque as RPM increases through a certain range before the torque falls off at higher RPM. Cars must have different gear ratios because of this.

My legs on the other hand do make torque at zero RPM. Since torque is determined solely by the force I can apply on the crank arm, the torque I can provide also does not follow the came curve as on a car. If anything, my legs are more like an electric motor and most electric cars only run one gear ratio. I can do 95% of riding just as fast on a fixed gear as on a multi gear bike. We want gear ratios on a bike because below a certain cadence, climbing becomes difficult due to the dead spot when your pedals are up/down and because there is a limit on how fast we can spin our legs. Outside of steep hills, more gears just gain you a measure of comfort.

In terms of a workout, no, I don't really feel like I get more of a workout on a fixed gear. Watts are watts and while gear ratios change torque, watts in at the pedals equals watts out at the wheel (minus drag). When I've run a fixed gear and a multi gear bike on the same route a few days apart, the results are virtually the same. Fixed gear riding is about the simplicity to me. Just pedal... go... spin... The bike is also quieter, ever so slightly. Even that tiny part of my brain that is thinking about the next gear shift or when I switch chainrings can rest. I'm solely focused on the ride in a zen sort of way.

TMonk

+1 I agree. Sure having your legs spin in circles with no applied power induces more fatigue than coasting, but not enough such that it makes it a significantly bigger "workout" compared to the energy I'm already expending propelling the bike forward in either case (fixed or free), which can be a lot.

Colnago Mixte

Opinion noted.

TMonk

On the flip side, I rode my Wabi for 3 hrs yesterday and was a little more tired than usual afterward

johnnytheboy

johnnytheboy

johnnytheboy

can the dude on top ride 200km per day for almost a month and keep up with the guy on the bottom? nope. but many pro road cyclists are also successful track cyclists.
so...which one is in better shape??

TMonk

To me being in good "shape" means aerobically fit and the tilt there goes to the stage racing roadies. But to win shorter races or even 1 day road races you also usually have to be a fast finisher which requires strength from a fast-twitch/muscular perspective. Really I think the mass-start track racers, crit racers or "punchy" road race types have the best balance...

...but I may be a bit biased

phobus

The correct answer is probably: each one is in better shape than the other for their chosen discipline.

johnnytheboy

drlogik 

I get a harder workout riding a fixed gear. Tried the freewheel cog and didn't think it was nearly as hard. There's no "rest" with a fixed gear, either going up, down or flats. There's also the mental aspect of riding a fixed gear. You cannot let your brain lapse one second. There's no room for day-dreaming or thinking about something else. All of the focus is on the bike, the road and the engine or bad things tend to happen...quickly. That mental exercise for me is also a workout. It helps me focus better at everything.

czr