njkayaker

It's easier to know that the thing is a cyclist from much farther away with a flashing light (front or rear). You see the light from much farther away well-before you know it's a cyclist or whether it's moving. These sorts of flashing lights are rarely used outside of cyclists (which adds to the recognition of cyclists).

This is not an obscure or unusual observation by anybody who has a reasonable degree of cycling experience (outside of city riding when you don't have long stretches of roads).

You should ride more and post less nonsense on forums.

mrv 

yea.... there’s a note in my Life File
- “Does not play well with others.”
thankfully Jesus forgives me!!

Helldorado

No, YOU!

Helldorado

yes, THIS!

livedarklions

Alas, if you hadn't quoted it, I wouldn't have seen it. As usual, that guy misses the point. I never said that DRLs do or don't have some benefit, but that I generally don't use them because I'm not convinced they're worth the trouble. I complained about some strobes I've actually seen that made it harder to judge the actual position of the rider in daylight. A bunch of people jumped on that to say lights that bright don't exist, then some guy brags about his 3000 lumen flashing light.

Point I was making about why that demonstration wouldn't work is because it is based on the assumption that people are going to be convinced by a completely unrealistic demonstration when they've almost certainly seen DRLs on the road while they're driving and seen that they really don't make any dramatic difference.

john m flores 

“The crash rate among vehicles without standard DRLs was 1.73 (95% CI: 1.71–1.75) times higher than the rate for vehicles with standard DRLs. The rate ratio was also significant for fatal vehicle crash rates 1.48 (95% CI: 1.23–1.76).”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2850978/

livedarklions

Well, I just had to tell someone he's not a fire engine, now I have to tell you you are not a car.
DRLs on motor vehicles is an entirely different matter. No reason at all to assume that study is relevant at all.

john m flores 

DRL is an automotive industry term. If you choose to use it, don't be surprised to get comments about cars.

njkayaker

It looks like you are making this up (it doesn't appear anybody in this thread talked about such a light.

That really isn't the point (that matters).

njkayaker

It looks like you are making this up (it doesn't appear anybody in this thread talked about such a light.

That really isn't the point (that matters).

They make the cyclist much easier to identify from farther away. Your lack of experience is showing.

​​​​​​​No reason to assume it's not relevant.

Helldorado

You can still redeem yourself. Just admit that in a cyclist without a flashing light, especially in poorly lit or high contrast settings such as streets with scatted shady and sun-lit areas as one would see under tress on a bright sunny day, is less conspicuous to the casual observer, including an car driver, than a cyclist who does have a blinky on the bike. That's all. Simple concept: strong blinking lights, either rear or forwards facing, add conspicuity to the cyclist in most situations.

Go ahead, admit it. It'll feel good, and we will all love you again.

livedarklions

Know what I love? My ignore list. Bye bye!

livedarklions

Sorry, but I'm not paying for your remedial Google training.

john m flores 

LOL You're not qualified to judge or train.

"The incidence rate, including all recorded bicycle accidents with personal injury to the participating cyclist, is 19% lower for cyclists with permanent running lights mounted; indicating that the permanent bicycle running light significantly improves traffic safety for cyclists. The study shows that use of permanent bicycle running lights reduces the occurrence of multiparty accidents involving cyclists significantly"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22884376/

livedarklions

mr_bill already posted that. The limitations of such an experiment are really too obvious to go through but I tend not to put much credence in any study that isn't double blind AND relies on self-reporting. Also note that this hasn't been replicated, and no way of knowing even if it's valid whether it would be true in the US, as this was a Denmark only study. Again, I am not saying they don't have any effect, I just don't see anything that would make me think they have an effect worth the trouble.

Trakhak

You might want to reconsider. Opportunities to study the behavior of those who serenely and self-righteously disregard the rights of others are plentiful here, but they're not limitless. There are only so many threads about wheeling a bike around inside stores, after all.

livedarklions

Naw, I'm good! I can watch people refuse to wear masks in stores if I want to study that. Thanks, though.

jadocs

Do it outside in the sunlight and stand 50-80 yards away from it.

People who make the "it's too bright" or "it's going to give someone seizures" usually make that determination in their living room or garage.

livedarklions

No, I've made that determination having trouble seeing fools who run with ridiculously bright strobes at close range in bright daylight (I don't think the seizure thing is a real concern, the flash rates appear to be too slow for that). What people aren't acknowledging is that there is some amount of brightness where diminishing returns must kick in. If you're making yourself harder to see at 50 feet in order to make yourself easier to see at 80 yards, I'd say you're misplaying the probabilities. A reasonably slow blink rate and level of brightness that isn't excessive will eliminate any possible short-range optical issues.

And please don't tell me lights that bright don't exist--some guy just posted about his 3000 lumen strobe.

We'll agree that brightness in your living room is irrelevant.

njkayaker

There are a few people here advocating using very bright lights. But not no all of them.

Unless you think that using any flashing light is "disregarding the rights of others".

jadocs

I have never seen or noticed any passing cyclist who had a flashing light that was "too bright" or distracting (daytime riding). In fact, I have to be looking for a light to notice it, otherwise I just see a person on a bike going the opposite direction. Try it sometime, what do you see first?

The only time this has been an issue is in a tight paceline when I am literally a few feet from the source behind someone. Drivers in general are not sensitized to look for anything beyond another vehicle on the road.

I use pulse mode on my 600 lumen front light and 150 lumen rear light. Many times I have been traveling on a main road coming up on side streets over 20mph where drivers pull up to the stop sign, getting ready to do a California roll and literally do a double take and put on the brakes. If it's reasonable to assume that drivers are looking for other vehicles and are not sensitized to look for small bicycles, it is reasonable to assume they saw my "bright" pulsing front light and realized they had to stop.

There are a lot of people who think a daytime light can be too bright. Get out of your living room or driveway and put the bike at distance in the sunlight and take another look. Also next time you ride, make a conscious effort to determine what you see first on passing cyclists. Is it the light? … I doubt it. That being the case, it's reasonable to assume someone not looking for bikes stands a higher chance of not seeing them at all.

njkayaker

No one in this thread appears to have posted about "his 3000 lumen strobe".

livedarklions

Does no one else on this thread actually drive? The real issue isn't when and how other cyclists see you, and optics are very different from the driver's seat than they are from the saddle.

BY some coincidence, I happened to see just such an overly bright strobing light this weekend while I was driving. Yes, I could see him very far down the road as he was on the opposite side of the opposite lane. I couldn't tell you if I would have noticed him at the same distance without the light. As we closed, however, the bright flash actually did make it impossible to determine where in the road he was precisely. I did ok just assuming he was proceeding in a straight line, but had he not been, I would not have been able to tell and it could have been bad
.
I can guarantee you his light was a hell of a lot more powerful than 600 lumens, btw.

livedarklions

And my bad, the 3000 lumen flashing light guy was in post # 8 of this other thread. https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-...l#post21647154

50PlusCycling

I was a police officer in South Florida, where the roads are full of Canadian vehicles in the winter months. Canadian cars all have daytime headlights, yet they seemed to be involved in no fewer accidents than the cars without the lights.