mercator

As a fellow Calgarian, I've just converted to the chain waxing cult. When I ride my bike on the rollers, my wife complains about the occasional oil drop on the carpet - cleaning and waxing the chain seems to have cleared this up!

As for the bike I ride outside in the winter, anything will do as long as it lubes the chain. The bike is going to be a mess anyway. If I get cold while applying it, I don't bother even wiping it down.
(-32C here today )

Litespud

Not sure I see the problem. Wax hardens to essentially a solid, and the colder it gets the more brittle it gets. Once I put a freshly waxed chain on the bike on a stand, I run it through the gears once. The first few rotations of the cranks, the chain skips and clatters, but then it's done - the articulation of the chain as it runs through the drivetrain breaks up any excess wax. Doesn't matter how thick the wax is - a steel chain is going to have it's way. I don't understand why it would keep on skipping, regardless of how cold it is - once each link has articulated through the full necessary range of motion.

t1k

I did check for the paraffin build up between cogs. There's no build up at all.

I let the wax to cool down and thicken a bit before pulling out the chain to make sure that the wax won't run out of the rollers. I'd like the rollers to be filled with wax, the wax residue on the outside of the chain is just a nice bonus to protect the chain from corrosion.

t1k

This is true for a single/fixed gear bike. On a multi-speed bike there's a substantial chain slack that is compensated by a rear derailleur, and the stiff chain is now fighting with the derailleur spring.
If the chain is stiff enough it will not allow the derailleur take up the chain slack effectively and we end up with the chain skipping.

This is my understanding of the bike drive train mechanics. Please correct or feel free to laugh at me if I'm wrong

t1k

Welcome to the waxers club. Now you will be looked down at by the rest of the cycling community

The winter bike doesn't have to be a mess. If you convert it to the paraffin and use a bucket of warm water to rinse it after especially wet rides, it will look pretty clean. That was my experience.
Plus, you would need to freeze in a garage while lubricating the chain. Instead, you'll be drinking hot coffee, listening to soul-warming jazz near a fire place while keeping an eye on a crock pot.

I went for a ride over a lunch brake today. It was sunny and beautiful, Garmin measured -24C. Not the ideal cycling temperature but I enjoyed the ride.

Litespud

Not laughing at all - just that my experience differs - the newly waxed chain starts out jumping around the place, and the RD bounces back & forth a bit, but 1-2 trips around the sprockets and the rings breaks up any wax that's hindering chain articulation, and everything settles down. I install a waxed chain, give the cranks a few turns on the stand, run through the gears (which I do anyway if I'm doing anything to the drivetrain) and that's it - there's no residual "wax effect", even in cold temps.
FTR I use standard eBay paraffin, soak the chain in wax for 20-30 min in a small slow cooker, giving it a swirl every few mins, then retrieve it hot and hang it to solidify. I usually wax all three chains at the same time (doing each chain individually) and run each on the bike for ~300 miles.

t1k

Sounds like pulling the chain from the wax when it's still hot makes a big difference in the chain stiffness. I should try that.

What's the coldest temperature that you tested the waxed chain in?

Litespud

down to ~zero C. I really don’t know how the wax will behave at significantly lower temps, but I imagine it would get harder and more brittle

UncleG

I always keep cardboard handy. Cut out a usable rectangle and use it to catch overspray behind the chain during application of the selected product.

Axel.se

Hi. Tk,
I also use a E-Bike, specifically a Scott axis e-ride 20 with the bosch performance cx motor that I bought around Easter 2018 so the wear should be rather similar.
I wish that the temperature here actually got down to -30c but I live right by the ocean so we usually only get it down to -10c or -15c and it is so much water in the air when it is warmer then -10c so it rips any warmth from your bones and it fells worse then -40c in other parts of the country, when it gets colder then -10c the last water freezes out of the air and suddenly it don't feels so bad any longer.
Anyway it have only gotten -15c here for a few days this winter and the wax mixture worked really well for that and I did test the mixture I made by putting a bit of wax it in the freezer and from how pliable it felt after cooling it down to -22c I think it would work well down to at least -25c if not -30c . Though it might be a good idea to use a bit more oil then I used if it seems to turn too hard or the weather get much colder then that.
The fact that it was still pliable at more then -20c is why I will test a mixture with a bit less oil and more beeswax next as I don't need it for really extrem temperatures and I plan on making testing a really low oil high beeswax mix later in spring.


Nice, it is going to be interesting to see how it works out.

I got 3 connex 11SE chains when I changed the rest of the drive train and cleaned them using the metod that Oz cycling recommended first using gasoline and then ethanol.
I do not recommend that metod (atleast not for connex chains) as for some strange reason the gasoline managed to get the stainless steal in the connex chain to rust, the next time I will try to just let it sit in aceton from the start (used that to dissolve some of the rust so hopefully it will not no have the same problem)

What the factory oil would do when put in hot wax is really hard to say as we have no idea what they actually use for that oil, I think that even with doing 100km wear in with the factory oil you should be able to get away with just 0.2-0.3L of aceton.
This could be done by putting the chain in the aceton letting it sit for a while and shaking it, then just fishing out the chain and putting it in a new container and after letting the aceton sit so the solids settle to the bottom of the first container then you can just pour that aceton into the container with the chain just being careful to not pouring the solids with the aceton, clean out the stuff left over and repeat until no more particles are dislodged from the chain. Sure you will lose a small amount each wash and it might be a good idea rinse it in some "fresh" aceton to be sure to get rid of absolutely all factory oil, but that aceton can be used with the other aceton for the next chain so the total amount needed should be rather low and should not really need to be discarded until it have been used a few times if ever. (just remember to put a lid on the containers).

I would recommend testing putting the factory oiled chain in wax by putting a few spare links in a small amount of wax first to be sure that nothing really unexpected happens. Worst case would likely be if the factory oil get burned to the metal by the temperature and even harder to remove later I don't think that is too likely but it might be a risk.
It might also lead to some extra wear to not do the initial run in as apparently chain manufacturers aren't as diligent with deburring their products as they should and that would result in metal particles stuck in the wax inside the links and accelerating the wear. Talking about chain manufacturing I suspect that connex actually make their chains slightly undersize as I am still not able to even get the KMC tool between the links to measure the chains at.


I have seen some videos of people that use the wax in that way, the only problem as I see it is that the wax will be worn away from the areas that is in contact with the chain so maybe it could be good idea to combine it with some spray or something but cleaning it and waxing it most likely will save you from having to take it apart completely in a long time and save it from getting water ingress between parts and rust buildup there.
While I am personally not too worried about rust I do understand wanting to keep vintage from getting any unnecessary wear.

And I need to get the connex sprocket of the motor and put it in the wax bath some time as that have started to rust, I am not too worried about that as I see it is as part that I will wear out and replace sooner or later. For the back cassette (CS-M5100 Cassette 11-51) I honestly don't even know if it is steal or aluminum, the website where I bought it said steal, but the box say something about aluminum but nothing about what is aluminium and Shimanos website is less then helpful, I would suspect that the gears are steal as they should wear a bit too quick otherwise but I have too inspect it for rust the next time I take it off to move it to the new wheel I am building.

John_E

When I let the wax to cool down before pulling them out the only thing it did was to create a build up outside of the chain which didn't improve longevity at all, just created a mess.
I don't think the wax in between rollers can run out of the chain as fast as you pull it out. When pulled out, the exposed wax on the chain immediately begins to form a slight skin and only a few drops come out.

Here is what I think:
1. Whether you have too much build up on the side plates that it causes the jump.
2. The chain because of the cold gets too stiff hence causes the jump (similar to what happens when you have a stiff link). I don't think the stiffness caused by the excessive buildup outside necessarily mean that inside is better lubricated.

Do you mind putting a photo of your drivetrain and chain ?

t1k

How do you like your e-bike? I have a less fancy Ghost with Bosch Performance line motor. Love the bike and ridden about 5,000 km on it. But I'm worried about the motor being a black box that I can't and don't know how to maintain (I do my bikes maintenance myself).
It doesn't look like Bosch sells any spare parts for it either. If it suddenly fails, I fear, the repair is going to be very costly if possible at all.

I guess, I should consider myself lucky then. Here, in Alberta, Canada we get cold winters but the climate is very dry, so -30C is still ridable

I tried the 100g paraffin + 100g beeswax + 20g motor oil mix. The wax turned to be just a bit harder than my old wax (with paraffin oil). The new mix is more durable than the old one - it lasted 250km in wet conditions and the chain was absolutely quiet at that point.
I rewaxed the chain after 250km because it started rusting pretty bad. The new mix, although doesn't feel oily, still attracts dirt and the wax that remained on outside chain plates turned black.
The biggest issue with the new wax, however, is the smell: beeswax mixed with motor oil makes this disgusting, vomit inducing smell. The smell alone is enough to consider the experiment failure.

My next mix experiment was 100g of paraffin and 30g of beeswax. The wax turned to be much harder and the chain was very stiff. Took quite a bit to loosen up the links, I first loosen them up by hands and then put on the bike and spinned the cranks for good 5 minutes.
I doubt that this mix will work in -30C, but in -10C it works quite well. I'm still testing this mix. We had a week of warm and wet weather - lots of deep and long puddles. I rode about 100kms so far. The chain is soaking wet but quiet.

I used to use mineral spirit (another name for acetone, in my understanding) to clean chains. It works well but the smell is terrible. Also, I would like to avoid keeping harsh chemicals at home if possible. I also tried citrus degreaser - it's less effective than mineral spirit but smells nicer and biodegradable.

Tried the idea of remoting the factory lubricant by dipping the chain into hot paraffin. Used a few chain links left after shortening a new chain to a needed length. The method works quite well. After waxing, the chain doesn't feel oily or sticky and does not attract dirt. I even took apart a couple of links and inspected rollers, pins and plates - no signs of the lubrication, paraffin sticks quite well.
The factory lube did, however, turn paraffin cloudy. So it seens that a separate paraffin bath needed to strip the oil prior to actual waxing.

I have already taken apart the freewheel. The plan is to soak the cogs in a rust removal product (Evaporust). Then dip the cogs in a beeswax bath. The wax coat should be very thin to not affect the freewheel cogs spacing, otherwise the indexed shifting is not going to work properly.

Litespud

Mineral spirit =/= acetone. The first is a mix of short-chain hydrocarbons, the second is a specific low molecular weight ketone. Very different. IME acetone works way better at degreasing than MS, but it’s very volatile and really should only be used with good ventilation. Think “nail polish remover” - it stinks up half the house when my daughter cracks the bottle to do her nails. Great also for cleaning chains prior to waxing, and for removing pretty much anything organic, including old decals (probably wouldn’t use it on a carbon frame, though!)

alias5000

I switched to something like this successfully: https://www.homehardware.ca/en/500ml...=1525535421021
Instead of short rinses, I leave the chain in for hours and it works equally well then.

Crankycrank

I believe Canada and the US use the same term for "Mineral Spirits" or "Odorless Mineral Spirits" which is not really odorless but is better for us cyclists uses. Acetone is a little different and can be more harmful to paint and plastics and evaporates fairly quickly. In the UK "OMS" are known as "White Spirit". Used citrus cleaner is no longer biodegradable when contaminated with bike spooge. Many of us here on BF put some OMS in a jar and swish the chain around or soak and and save the used OMS. After a few days the gunk settles to the bottom of the jar and the good solvent can be poured into a clean container and used over and over again so not all that harmful to the environment. Just Sayin'.

Crankycrank

Just a warning. Some of the "Green" non-petroleum paint thinners and mineral spirits can cause the chain to become brittle and crack if left soaking for days at a time. Not sure if just hours would be harmful and again, this may not be true for all brands and versions of the non-petroleum types but something to note.

alias5000

@Crankycrank: Thanks! I've been doing this overnight, so something like 8-10 hours. So far, been fine.

t1k

Thank you correcting me and for pointing out that the mineral spirit and acetone are two different things.

Good point. Also, citrus degreaser doesn't work nearly as good as OMS especially in unheated garage in winter.

I wish there was a chemical as effective as OMS but with the roses scent

Toespeas

mixing oil with wax defeats the point , first thing you could try is flipping your chain around , it might have got broken in in one direction and reinstalled the other way can cause some skips , ive been dirty waxing my chain all winter it take about 10 minutes !

ls01

Why would you mix oil with wax? The entire reason to use wax is to lubricate the chain cleanly. Adding oil just makes a huge mess of it. A wet chain holds dirt and filth that gets on everything. Don't waste your time.
At one point I did add oil, transmission fluid, alcohol, mineral spirits etc. In an attempt to keep the mixture liquid at room temp. Its a waste of time. It takes too much carrier to keep the mixture liquid. Once the carrier evaporates it leave an insufficient amount of wax to lubricate things properly.

Paraffin oil or lamp oil is added to the mixture to soften the wax. If you use straight wax it is quite brittle, the application of pressure causes it to shatter and fall off of metal. Using the paraffin oil allows the wax to conform and bend which allows it to stick to the chain. And stay where it's needed.
I purchased A one quart slow cooker on Amazon for $10.00.
It holds twice as much wax as it needs to , to wax a chain. I have been using Tephlon with this batch but I can't see any difference in its use. I put the chain in and let it soak for 10 minutes , swish it around for a few seconds,, then I hang it over the pot to let the excess drip back into the pot. When it's cool.enough to handle ,I put it back on the bike.
As far as mileage, I have had chains go 400 miles on a single treatment. But I would stay around 200 just for safety sake. The chains noise changes when it's time for relubing. It gets rattly-er , more metallic sounding.
Kmc makes a "Stretch proof" chain. Don't use wax on it. It will not work with whatever they are coating the parts with. I was only getting 20 miles of zwifting before I needed to lube this chain due to the racket it made. I have swapped it out for a different chain.

Edit for additional; You need to clean all the shipping lubricant off the chain before you wax it. Leaving it on only contaminates your mixture. Mineral spirits in a jar works just fine for this. soak it briefly, give it a shake, remove it. let it dry. I use another jar with a degreaser and water, then rinse. Toss it in the wax.

alias5000

The OP explains his reasoning on the issue fairly well in post #1, I would say.

Inisfallen

I wax my chain rather than oil it. I don't use anything special -- I use Gulf Wax, available at your local hardware store or supermarket.

I'm not a hardcore roadie or anything -- I commute just about everywhere in New York City by folding bike. Including work, so I need a clean chain.

It works.

And, to circle back to the topic of the thread, I haven't noticed anything different when I'm riding in sub-freezing temperatures. Not that the temperature here gets down to the Calgary range. But still, I ride often when the temperature is in the 20s (F). Seems to work fine. I know I'm not stressing stuff like a roadie, or riding hard enough to notice increased resistance or anything, but for me, it works fine no matter what the temperature.

t1k

If by the "point" you mean keeping the drive train clean then it really depends on the kind and amount of oil added to the wax mix.

In my experience, adding less that 10% of paraffin oil to the mix makes the wax more pliable without making it sticky.

Adding 10% of the motor oil, on the other hand, does make the wax somewhat sticky. I should point out that I did not strip the factory lubricant from a new chain before using this new wax mix. So the stickiness could be blamed on the factory lube, or motor oil or their combination.

This "motor oil" wax smells revolting. I do not recommend using it indoors (again, the smell might be a result of factory lube contamination).

t1k

Two reasons:
- There's a huge chain waxing thread on a Ukrainian biking forum that was started in 2014 and is still very active. Some of the people there strongly recommended the paraffin + beeswax + motor oil mix. I wanted to try it. I already had a mix (paraffin + beeswax + lamp oil/paraffin wax) that works well in extreme cold but lasts only for about 150kms/~100 miles (I ride a mid-drive ebike that puts extra stress on a chain). Lazynes is a very strong motivator - I was hoping that the "motor oil" mix would last longer. And, to be fair, it did. The chain was still quiet after 250kms, but I noticed that it gets dirty and rusty. It wasn't oily-sandy-grinding pasty kind of dirt. More like mud and soil stacked to the chain. The hot water rinse cleaned the chain pretty well. But the chain still had slight oily feel to it.
- Childish curiosity

How much paraffin oil did you add to the mix? And what kind if oil did you use (lamp oil/IKEA food safe wood treatment oil/something else)?



I use a crock pot for waxing. It came with a nice thick ceramic bowl, which heats and cools VERY slowly. I'm sure it's great for cooking. But not so much for waxing. It takes an hour to melt 200gr of wax. I might look for a crock pot with a stainless steel bowl.



I used KMC X9 chain with my first (with paraffin oil) waxing mix. The chain worked great, never had any rust issues with it.

Replaced the chain with SRAM PC-971, waxed it with the "motor oil" wax and the chain was all rusted within 150kms. I blame it on a lower quality SRAM chain but it's possible that the "paraffin oil" wax better protects the chain from rust.



You’re right. The factory lubricant contaminates the waxing mix. Therefore, I’m going to have two mixes: rinsing and waxing. Where the rinsing mix is going to be pure paraffin and will be used to strip factory lubricant and rinse a chain prior to waxing in a clean(er) waxing mix.
I know, this starts to sound a bit crazy … but who cares. In modern society, serious cyclists are considered somewhat crazy. And the waxers seen as nuts even among cyclists. So why not take it up a notch? 😊

I was using a similar cleaning routine: mineral spirit, degreaser, rinse in water, dip in rubbing alcohol for faster drying. It’s a long and smelly process. My girls dislike the smell of mineral spirit and I try to limit it’s use.