rainedon

I have a bumpersticker on my car that has a picture of a bicycle and a car and it reads 'Same Road, Same Rights, Same Rules'. This morning, a coworker of mine said that he didn't feel it was fair that cyclists have the same rights as autos because the roads are paid for and maintained with money from fuel tax from automobiles.

So my question is- What is your response to someone who has this viewpoint?

LordOpie

how many cyclists don't own cars? heck, I own a truck and motorcycle and pay taxes on both. If i'm on my bicycle, that means I'm causing less delays in traffic and wear-and-tear on society.

That tax argument is bogus. Besides, you have a bumper sticker on your car.

MichaelW

Are local roads paid for by Federal taxes or local and state taxes? Even a non-fuel user may find their tax dollars being used for road maintenance. Can fuel tax pay all the costs of road building and maintenance?
Note that many roads were built before automobiles. The first road-building lobby were the Cycle Clubs.

Grasschopper

There is a woman here at my work that I overheard talking to another co-worker about why she will never wear a seat belt. Did you know that you are more likely to get hurt in an accident if you are wearing your seat belt? You could even be killed by it.

What I am trying to say here is that some people are simply so ignorant they shouldn't be allowed to talk. I try not to listen to these people but sometimes it is hard because they have these loud screeching voices...oh never mind.

snowy

My response would be...... Hey I pay taxes too. So that doesn't make any sense. Its not all coming out of gas taxes, now come on.

Ebbtide

I paid for the sidewalk in front of my house, should I be allowed to keep people off it becuase they don't pay?

I don't fly but I paid for the airline bailout.

I pay school taxes but I have no kids.

I've paid emmisions fees on my car and never fail an emmisions test.

Your friend should be used to paying taxes for the rights of others. Tell him to stop complaining and to change the law if he does not like it.

JohnBrooking

I guess he has a point in a very narrow sense. But as Lord Opie pointed out, there are also societal benefits to your being on a bike, never mind the fact that you own a car too.

This argument, that only those who pay for a service should be able to use it, is kind of the flip side of the argument that only people who use a service should have to pay for it. Like home-schoolers who don't like paying property tax to send the neighbor's kid to public school. In both cases, the argument is that everything should be supported by user fees alone. In reality, much of our economy doesn't operate that way, and probably couldn't. So life's messy, get over it.

Besides, we could ride on unmaintained paths if we had to, could he? If there were no cars and no gasoline tax to pay for roads, there would have to be something else to pay for whatever mode of transportation people chose instead.

Ask him if he would support going to all toll roads, with a sliding fee according to size of vehicle and wear and tear on the road.

scarry

Tell him if all the hidden costs of motor vehicle transport were included in the cost at the pump, gas would cost over $10 a gallon.

https://www.icta.org/ctanews/realpr.htm

skydive69

We were hammering along on our ride today at 31 mph with faster ocassional sprints. Where would your co-worker propose that we do that - on the sidewalk? Tell him, "It's the law." We have responsibilities that go along with our use of the road. Also, as another has pointed out, my two motor vehicles and one motorcycle do their share of gulping gas, and hence paying road taxes. Also, you might point out that vehicles have a considerable impact on roads - fluid drips, wearing down asphalt. What impact does my 16.25 pound bicycle have on the same roads?

TandemGeek

Read this and compare to how roads are financed in your state...
https://www.biketexas.org/pdf/Fair_Share_ResSheet.pdf

Another more general "how to respond" resource for on-road bicycle use is here:
https://www.bicycledriving.com/motorists.htm

supcom

I'd say that road maintenance is paid for by more than just auto taxes. Federal subsidies pay for a lot of roads as well. I'd also say that we do not change the rules for visitors from other states even though they may not pay any taxes here. Besides, I happen to own a car but do not receive a refund on registration tax for days when I ride instead of drive.

By your coworkers logic, people who are poor and pay little in taxes are not entitled to the same police, fire, and rescue services as the wealthy. When they go to a public hospital, they should receive service only after bonafide taxpayers. Their children should sit at the back of the school bus, only get to take the classes the rich kids have not filled, and don't get issued pads for football. Their votes should count only in proportion the their total tax contribution.

I'd also say that the roads are built for all of the public to use and, except for toll roads, require no fee for access.

I'd finish up by stating that my bicycle, unlike an automobile, contributes virtually zero wear and tear on the roads unlike automobiles and trucks.

IchbinJay

Your friend is just jealous because you have the ability to ride a bike. He's probably just out of shape and trying to make himself feel better.

billh

I hear a lot of our income tax goes to maintain the roads through federal money. As far as state fuel tax, by his logic, all out of state drivers should not be allowed to use his state roads.

2manybikes

To him I say...

1) It's the law. Fair or not. Try to change the law by legal means or live with the existing laws.
Too much trouble to change the laws?... Then don't complain.
I also have to live with laws that are not fair sometimes. We all do.

2) I pay taxes on all my cars, they all wear out the road.
When I do not take the car. and take my bike somewhere instead,
the wear and tear on the road is reduced so much,
the environment is polluted so much less,
the non sustainable resources (oil) are used so much less,
the scrap in the landfill is reduced so much,
....WHERE IS MY REFUND ??

In England they have tax credits for companies that encourage bicycle commuting by giving the commuters safe bike storage, and showers, etc.

In the center of London there is a "Congestion Charge" to bring a car into the center of the city at peak times. This is to encourage bike commuting. The studies say it is working.

I REPEAT...... WHERE THE HECK IS MY REFUND.

Thanks for bringing it up buddy, I'm going to get together with other cyclists and start a mileage credit law for cyclists, now that you gave me the idea. Starting in our town !! yea! Wanna sign the petition?

Sorry is that too strong?

John E

The responses so far pretty well cover the topic, and quite accurately. Point out to your coworker that private automobile travel in the U.S. is arguaby the most highly subsidized form of transportation ever devised.

TassR700

Another point is that many states assess vehicle license fees based on the weight of the vehicle since that has a direct bearing on the amount of wear inflicted on the roads by that vehicle. Since bikes don't have enough weight to cause measureable wear, cyclists should not be responsible for the road maintenance. Think how long roads would last if only cyclists used them. As many others have said, the time I am riding my bike is helping the roads because my car is not causing wear for that trip.

If they still think it is unfair, tell them to get out and ride and take advantage of the loophole!

Poguemahone

Since the roads are not fully paid for with auto taxes, tell your co-worker that he's not paying his share and should not be allowed to drive his car anywhere.

Large amounts of road funding in the commonwealth of Virginia come from general funds; the state gas tax is a low 17.5 cents a gallon, and members of the legislature are trying to do away with even that minimal amount. Take a look at the road funding for your state; you may be surprised at the amount you subsidising his automobile.

rainedon

I like that one.

My coworker (actually the VP of the company) was playing devil's advocate and trying to get me riled up. He is an avid runner and a recreational mountain biker and we discuss fitness and cycling all the time. But when he brought up that point, I didn't have any road revenue sources to snap back with. Thanks to you guys, I've got some ammo to fire back.

nate

LittleBigMan

I would say that as a bicyclist, I pay general taxes that pay for the roads. I'd also say that as a bicyclist, I don't cause damage to the roads because I'm very light. I'd also point out that as a motorist, I've already paid all the other taxes road-users pay.

So really, as a bicyclist/motorist, I pay the same taxes as other motorists, but cause less of the damage (and create less need for new road construction.)

End of argument.

DieselDan

Just point out the bumper sticker is on your car, not your bike. Besides, you paid tax on your bike when you bought it.

AndrewP

Who should pay for the prisons - the prisoners, the crime victims, or the public at large. Who is benefitting from the prison system?

Allister

I pay the exact amount of taxes for my bike that I am legally required to, not a penny more - same as every motorist. The fact that the law asks for $0 is beside the point. It's not unfair, because everyone has the opportunity to take advantage of it.

What ****s me is that the government won't bat an eyelid at shelling out billions of dollars for a marginally useful road tunnel (to take a current example here in Brisbane) with little to no opportinuty for a return, and which will undoubtedly be off-limits to cyclists, but the trains and buses have to pay for themselves.

FOG

The missing point is that the taxes to support road building were imposed in a kind of deal with motorist interests that the money would be used only for highway building, and would be a kind of "user fee." That is why there is supposed to be something called the Highway Trust Fund. Unfortunately, with the misuse of the National Environmental Policy Act by those filing frivolous lawsuits, investments in additional capacity have become very few, and investments in things like noise barriers have become many. We really need infrastructure, and as it becomes more difficult to build infrastructure, we are going to see more conflict and competition among user groups. If we ahd more highways and lanes, then bike lanes could be wider and more numerous. We all need the infrastructure.

CRUM

No, not even in a narrow sense. The co-worker was a clueless twit who opened their mouth before their brain was engaged.

iceratt

Never mind wear to the road from oil drips, the state of Florida will never pay for the poisoning of the groundwater. The production, distribution, and use of oil is like throwing dead bodies in wells willy-nilly.