I-Like-To-Bike

Depends on how you wish to define "young people," and which time periods you want to measure; the percentage of people who are licensed in age group from 25-29 actually rose slightly from 2008 to 2010. the percentage for ages 20-24 barely changed during that time period.

The downward trends are found most significantly among teenagers. I suspect the reasons for their "choice" in foregoing a license may have something to do with employment opportunities, family economics, and changes in licensing procedures putting significant restrictions on teenage driving opportunities.

https://www.tandfonline.com/action/sh...88.2012.696755

But if you choose to believe the reason that the minority of "young people" foregoing driver's licenses is because of enlightened thinking by a New Age Generation making a choice to shun evil automobiles, you are free to make that choice.

I-Like-To-Bike

The bicycling environment in Tampa is not the same as Germany?

david58

I am trying to keep the attitude of a family friend when he had to stop driving: He was fine with it, since he could have a second glass of wine anytime or any place and not have to worry about driving. He faced it with pragmatism and humor. I hope I do so well.

And I'll still drive. Just from the back seat.

mtbikerinpa

I've personally observed the younger people trend, even in the farming/redneck area that I live in. The sub-20 year old category are aware of sharing rules and tend to want more peripheral items than transportation items like cars. It is an interesting trend to observe because my generation(doesn't that feel old to say) was all about the cars and mods. I felt like the odd one out for not being interested in using my car other than to go to ride events too far to ride to. It will be of interest to see where the trend is in 5-10 years.

I-Like-To-Bike

Especially if and when they move out of their parents' residence and have to get around on their own.

SlowNeasy

It's a well known fact. 85% of all statistics seen on the internet are bogus.

Sooner Rider

I'm a pilot, and I am required to pass a flight physical and flight review every 24 calendar months. Motorists should be similarly required.

I-Like-To-Bike

Yeah, sure.

I'm a bicyclist and have NO requirements to pass any kind of physical or bike riding review. Motorists should be similarly required.

Does this also make sense to you?

downtube42

Statistics on accidents by age are in Table 1114. Licensed Drivers and Number in Accidents by Age: 2009

https://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1114.pdf

Over 75 actually has the lowest number of accidents per driver (fatal and non-fatal) and better than all age groups under 24 for fatal accidents. I would guess the data is skewed by the number of miles driven per driver, but it's clear elderly drivers are not a disproportionate contributor to the 30,000 annual motor vehicle deaths in the U.S.

I agree the privilege to drive should be revoked when a person's mental and physical abilities diminish to an unacceptable level. I wonder just how bad they have to get, though, before a driver over 75 is as dangerous as a driver under 24.

I will admit, I'm posting this in response to the 20 something driver I encountered tonight, weaving through highway traffic while texting, doing easily 85 while traffic was doing 75. Amazing reflexes, yes, but lacked the responsibility to handle a car.

nelson249

I hope when the time comes that I follow the example of my maternal grandfather. One day on driving to one of his regular destinations he felt he was too slow in reacting to someone ahead of them slamming on their brakes. When he got home, he hung up his keys and refused to drive again. He told me that he would not be able to live with himself he hurt someone because he was so selfish as to insist on driving when he was no longer fit to do so. And this was in a rural area where there were few options for getting around without a car.

I do like how my father dealt with his mother when it was time for her to hang up her keys. She had just scared the daylights out of a driving examiner and was the seventh time she had taken her mandatory annual renewal after turning 80. She experienced a mini-stroke in the middle of the test. His siblings elected him as the 'bad guy' to tell their mother to stop driving. His approach was "I don't tell my wife what to do and I can no longer tell my kids what to do and I'll be damned if I will tell my mother what to do. I make suggestions and my suggestion is that you should no longer drive because you no longer have ability to operate a motor vehicle safely." There were tears but he tried to steer the discussion in such a way that she retained some of her dignity.

mtbikerinpa

If a cyclist has to pass medical, it would be self policing. Either the person is of condition suitable or they are not. There is no engine or motor to make up for the deficit of physical ability.

fietsbob

Court suspends the DL, and some people just , finally, buy a BSO.
or there is one local guy , skirts the intent, with a under 49cc motor conversion in a bicycle

Or someone gets an eBike.

Medical exam is part of a commercial drivers license renewal ,
not generally amateur drivers. till they stat having legal problems driving.

silmarillion

I agree that there are times when people need to lovingly speak to their loved ones who are elderly and give them concern when they are behind the wheel. Only people closest to them are really going to know if this is a reality or not. If they pass the eye test, then they can get their renewal in Georgia.

I think that over confidence/carelessness in young drivers is far more dangerous to public safety than the elderly drivers...I would be willing to bet that this is probably statistically provable.

I also think that there are a few elderly drivers out there who are on the brink of being able to drive, and they may even know this. Like other posters have indicated, it's like stripping them of their freedoms. Tough call IMHO.

Sorry DC, I know your target group but...

What I do have a bigger problem with is people who have a drivers license at all even after they have had more than 3 DUI's

Once is a mistake. Pay the fines do the time/community service, learn from the experience.
Twice; Let them spend a year figuring out how to get to work. If that doesn't motivate them to drive sober or call a cab, nothing will.
Third time; 5 year mandatory revocation. Spend a little time in a county lockup. Wake the F up time.
Anything more, they should never be allowed to drive again. If they are caught driving after those kind of conditions, especially if they should be drunk again, Then I don't see why the 3 strikes rule would not apply to them.

Ok, so maybe they should not be incarcerated in a prison, but they should be mandated to treatment if they refuse, then put them in jail.

These are people who definitely should never be allowed to drive again.

Digital_Cowboy

It would be nice if when we all reached that point that we were all as mature.

Digital_Cowboy

Yes, I may have said parents, but I also said any family member i.e. it could also be a sibling, a cousin, a grandparent, an aunt or uncle. And there are any number of reason why they're no longer fit to drive.

As you said, it could be multiple DUI's, or they could have suffered some sort of an illness or injury. Sadly, as I am sure we all know even though most drivers on the road do not want to get into a crash. That there are nonetheless too many drivers on the road who should never have been issued a license on the first place.

I've seen on a few of those investigative shows where people have memorized the eye chart. Sadly, there are ways to cheat on just about any test.

As another member pointed out, part of the reason that the elderly are so "safe" is because they've limited their driving to a small comfort zone.

I agree that if one has been given a second chance and/or they've had their license revoked that they should have to do jail time.

silmarillion

LOL, my wife calls them the "meyhem-drivers" like the commercials. She's worried about inattentive drivers, she's really worried about people who routinely drive under the influence.

I don't know about others on the forum, but I witness a plethora of incidental driving while I'm riding...cell phones, texting, watching the Tom-Tom, or a mini-tv, putting make-up on, or a wide range of things people do that dangerously takes their attention off the road in front of them.

No amount of driving experience can prepare you for every all-of-a-sudden situations you encounter when you drive.

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, one of the things that worries me are cyclists who are similarly playing with some sort of electronic device. Just the other day there was a guy on a bike either texting or playing with his iPod and wasn't paying attention to where he was going.

I-Like-To-Bike

You spend a lot of time worrying about things that are of little or no consequence to you or anybody else. Perhaps that is why you are constantly proposing impractical solutions; won't affect you at all.

SlowNeasy

Ok I may have the solution. When the oldsters fail the test and 'CAN' no longer drive safely, we take the younger folk who 'Can' drive safely but Refuse to,and as probation the youngsters have to drive the oldsters around town to do their shopping for a certain amount of time. The young offenders will benifiet from the vast knowledge of the wise old guys who will have the time now to help educate them as they are being driven around town.

Hey Old guys get to shop and young guys get drivers ed. Ain't that a win win?

conspiratemus1

I'm a physician. In Ontario we are obligated by law to notify the Registrar of Motor Vehicles if a patient we are treating has a condition that might (yes, "might") make it dangerous to drive. (Many, but not all, Canadian provinces and U.S. states have similar legislation.) I do this quite often and certainly if a concerned family member spoke to me about Grand-dad (as Grand-Dad's doctor) I would take it very seriously and make a report based on my medical knowledge of the patient. There have been some tragic cases recently of demented drivers running down pedestrians and not realizing it until they get home and family members see body parts hanging off the car. As a previous poster alludes, these cases are fewer in number than the carnage caused by drunk, aggressive, and distracted drivers without medical conditions. But that doesn't minimize the need to intervene with those we can.

There is a downside for us, not that any of you should care, just to explain why putting pen to paper and making the report takes moral courage. Patients often retaliate against us by complaining to our regulatory licensing bodies (called "Colleges" in Canada) for divulging confidential information. Demented old people not so much, but patients with substance abuse, chronic pain for which they stone themselves to the eyeballs with narcotics, advanced liver disease, poorly controlled diabetes for example take it very badly if they can't drive any more. There is a long list of conditions, including "general debility" ???, that must be reported. The Colleges recognize we have to make these reports in good faith and don't whack us for the report itself. But the people who coach the patients in how to make successful complaints focus on any deficiencies in our manner or communication style that might be puffed up into "unprofessional conduct" especially if the patient has been angry during what is nearly always a stressful and fraught discussion. (We can't make our reports anonymous and we have to tell the patient that we are making the report...and tell him/her not to drive pending the Ministry's review.)

So we end up at the very least having to meet with a College investigator on our own time away from patient care to try to satisfy her that our report was bona fide and that we were at all times respectful and professional. If the patient isn't satisfied with the outcome, he can tie us up in the appeals process for years at ZERO cost to himself.

The last complaint I had to defend came from a patient whose licence was lifted for a serious condition I reported. Shortly after my College exonerated me in the preliminary phase of their investigation I learned that he had been found dead in bed of a complication of that condition. I was sorry for his death of course but I was glad that I had helped ensure that he didn't die behind the wheel of his car. That news dispelled any doubts that the effort was "worth it".

Digital_Cowboy

I agree that "in the 'grand' scheme of things" that these cases may be only a "drop in the bucket" compared to all of the other bad drivers on the road. But a dead or severely injured person is still a dead or severely injured person, and it doesn't matter why.

And as you said we ALL have a moral obligation to do the right thing.

prathmann

Frankly, I don't care what the reason is. If elderly drivers as a group are unlikely to injure or kill me in an accident (and that is what the statistics show), then I'm not going to be as concerned about further reducing the risk from that group as compared to other groups who pose more of a threat.

Sure the 20 year old driver is likely to have quicker reflexes, better eyesight, etc., but if he's driving 50,000 miles a year, frequently just barely below the legal intoxication level, often while talking on his bluetooth phone (which numerous studies show are just as distracting as handheld), and often above the speed limit - then I'm going to be much more worried about my risk from him as compared to the elderly driver who gets in his car once a week to go a few miles to the grocery store on a familiar route on slow speed streets.

If either one of them shows a disturbing pattern of getting lots of tickets or accidents then I'd be in favor of the DMV taking steps to suspend their license privilege - but I see no reason to only consider doing this for the older driver (who's a member of the relatively safe part of the population) while not taking similar steps for the younger driver.

Drew Eckhardt 

It's much hotter and rains more in Tampa (89-90 degree highs June through September, over 6" of rain in the same months) than Germany (July is the warmest and wettest month averaging 75 degrees and 2.9 inches).

If I lived someplace that horrible I'd cut my utility cycling by up to 4500 miles a year.

Camilo

Yea, but the point is - and this also addresses your OP - there is no way, beyond simple persuasion - that we can "take the keys" away from our parents unless we fight the battle to have them declared mentally incompetent. So there is no way short of that that that family could have prevented the accident. And if you think it is easy to have someone legally declared mentally incompetent so that you can make decisions for him/her, guess again.

You can however, as been suggested, contact DMV and depending on the state they might require a hearing in which the driver might have to undergo an assessment for driving competence by various means. Some states are fairly aggressive with this, some would require some fairly significant evidence to challenge someone's driving license. Like, sometimes this won't happen until after the accident happens, which can be a big problem, obviously.

So, I disagree in terms of anyone other than the driver being held accountable. However, i do believe we all owe it to our parents and each other to try to influence their driving and bring it to the attention of DMV if we qustion their ability.

SlowNeasy

Remember back in the 80s reading of a "fellow" "commercial driver" in a bulk cement tractor/trailer rig approaching a crowded red light intersection,downhill on a Interstate off ramp. When he saw he was going too fast and would collide with other traffic he jumped out of the truck and let it run driverless into the intersection.
Young Guy.

How do we test against this ? He never should have had ANY Drivers license, much less a commercial one. Isn't there some sort of "maturity/stability" test we could give . along with the vision/physical test ?
This was 3d page news. Now if he had been in his 90s THAT would have been HEADLINE NEWS.