Digital_Cowboy

Okay, this seems to be a recurring theme: mom or dad (or some other family member) has reached the point in their lives, where for whatever reason it is no longer safe for them to drive. "Everyone" knows it, but they're reluctant to take the keys, because they don't want to strip them of their independence, or it's too much work to drive them around, or whatever excuse they come up with.

Then one day the inevitable happens, mom or dad (or whatever family member) hits and kills someone. The kids are heard saying "we should have taken their keys."

Should they, by NOT having taken the keys when they knew that they should have, be also held responsible for the drivers actions?

Also, for those who don't want to be the "bad guy" by taking the keys, can't they contact the DMV or their doctor to do their "dirty work?"

Essex

I can't see how loved ones can be implicated unless power of attorney is given to the caretakers?

AlabamaCommuter

No, they should not be held responsible. If you really want to regulate elderly driving, then let the DMV handle it.

Chris516

I can see the emotional context of that kind of argument. But the legal argument would be too broad and thin.

009jim

What if the person is only 18 is not fit to drive because of their really poor judgment and consistently breaking road rules? Should the parents be held responsible if they don't take away their keys?

B. Carfree

If the parents are providing the car, gas or insurance, then I think they should be held responsible for junior's poor driving decisions. Yes, I also think this should go for anyone you lend your car to.

Back to the OP: Many years ago there was a letter in either Dear Abby or Ann Landers. (I always get those twins mixed up.) Grandpa was clearly no longer capable of safely operating a motor vehicle, but no one wanted to be the "bad guy" and tell him it was time to give up driving. At a family gathering, grandpa put the car in drive instead of reverse, pressed firmly on the accelerator, and proceeded to remove both of his grandson's legs when he pinned them between his front end and the rear end of a parked car.

Two lessons here:
1. We all have a moral obligation to tell our elderly relatives when it "is time".
2. Stay well clear of cars that are being parked and removed from parking places.

Shellyrides

In CA you can call the DMV and alert them to a problem. They in turn send out a letter stating they must come in for a driving test.The person who made the call is not reveled to the senior.

Digital_Cowboy

Fortunately or unfortunately (whichever way one chooses to look at it) that may be true. However, I would have to think that both morally and ethically one should have an obligation to report not only family members, but anyone who is an unsafe driver so that they can be retested.

Digital_Cowboy

Ah, but how is the DMV suppose to "handle it" if no one has an "obligation" to step up?

And as I've said it seems to be a recurring theme. An elderly member of the family has demonstrated an inability to drive safely. They first start having "minor 'accidents.'" Then, sadly, they end up in an "accident" that kills an innocent bystander.

Clarabelle

I don't see how the children can be held responsible if the parents are licensed and insured. If they were responsible, where would it end? Would I be responsible for my Aunt Agnes' erratic driving, or my cousin's nephew who was driving drunk?

Digital_Cowboy

Yes, particularly if as B. Carfree says they are providing the car, gas and insurance.

Clarabelle

Just to add on: When my father got too old and vision impaired, we took the keys away, but gave him an old fashion coaster bicycle at the same time. He rode all over our area on that bike, and to those who fretted about his safety, I said, "I'd rather he die doing something he enjoyed rather than wasting away in a rest home bed." Sadly, it was the latter; dementia took his mind but left his body to slowly rot away. I always felt good about the bicycle.

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, if the family had told grandpa it's time to stop driving, then the grandson would still have his legs.

I'll also add stay behind cars being operated by teenagers who are learning to drive.

Digital_Cowboy

I think that as well as alerting a doctor is probably the best way to handle it. As well as, as has been suggested before. More frequent testing of EVERYONE is in order.

Digital_Cowboy

If you know that they're a danger to either themselves or to others, don't you think that at the very least that you have a moral and ethical obligation to report them?

009jim

I don't get near cars being operated by anyone of any age.

I-Like-To-Bike

Yes YOU have said it and you believe what you want to believe about an alleged "recurring pattern" of accidents by the elderly prior to their killing someone else. Any chance you can document this "recurring pattern" that prompts your proposals for broad assignment of "responsibility" for car key confiscation from the elderly.

Essex

Agreed. It makes sense to ensure safety on the road for all. More states should have the California anonymous testing procedure.

Cheers,

Essex

I-Like-To-Bike

Ya mean anyone can anonymously call in a complaint about anybody else and the CA DMV will send out a letter and demand a retest with no other evidence? Sounds like a good avenue for cranks and self appointed Dudley-Do-Rights to harass their family, neighbors and/or total strangers.

irwin7638

The whole idea is subjective until they fail a vision or driving exam. Nobody else can be held liable unless, they are providing a vehicle for them to drive. It's usually best, from a liability standpoint, for a licensed teen to have a car registered in his name and be responsible for his own insurance also. My mother is at that point where she is not able to drive safely but can't admit that to herself. We are doing everything in the world to keep her from driving again. Hopefully, she will fail her next test.

Marc

Essex

I highly doubt that the CA DMV would send out a retest if they are not factoring in bits of data like - driving record, age, existing ailments and who is reporting - like direct family etc.

A google search seems to indicate family members vs. others.

I-Like-To-Bike

Then they don't act on anonymous calls? Sounds like it may not be an adequate tool for some of our more aggressive "advocates" who would like to pull keys from as many motorists as possible for whatever reason they deem any adult is "not fit to drive."

Essex

Again, I would imagine that the DMV would have safeguards / laws /layers designed to avoid possible litigation based on whatever 'anonymous' reporting protocols they have.

I-Like-To-Bike

I hope so. As this thread, and others on this forum indicate, there are at least some cyclists who are quite eager to make a "report" or have a report made against any and all "individuals" that rub the reporter/snitch the wrong way as "unfit to drive."

SlowNeasy

A co-worker of mine back in the 70s did just this. His father in his 80s no longer recognized traffic signals or even curbs. Had several accidents and kept driving. Friend went to the State of Fl. and after several affidavits and hearings the Father's DL was revoked Lic.Tags pulled. Old man was pretty upset didn't speak to son for a long while. Friend said' that's allright ,Pop isn't going to get killed of kill someone'.
This was an extreme case, and the friend was an Officer who saw and got reports of the old guys driving.
But is this really a big problem or are our younger riders just angry at old people?
At least from what I see , I get menaced by young and middle aged drivers a lot more than elderly ones and that's in Fl. where there are lots of seniors. How do we test for that.
Sure teenage drivers have better vision and lightning reflexes. So why does if seem they are the last ones to see the accident/blue lights ahead, or the Officer out in the street directing traffic?
Why do the insurance companies charge the young driver more for insurance ?
So if we are going to go after groups of people, who are the most dangerous? Let's get them!