Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

I'm sorry...some modern drivetrains are stupid

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

I'm sorry...some modern drivetrains are stupid

Old 04-07-20, 08:08 AM
  #126  
jackbombay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked 459 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by tashi
Allows for the gear range of a traditional triple with just one chainring
"Gear Range", sure, but from a high performance functional standpoint any one chainring bike can't even compete with a double. How many guys were running a single ring bike on the pro circuit last year?
jackbombay is offline  
Likes For jackbombay:
Old 04-07-20, 08:44 AM
  #127  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,691

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 510 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7287 Post(s)
Liked 2,364 Times in 1,382 Posts
Originally Posted by jackbombay
"Gear Range", sure, but from a high performance functional standpoint any one chainring bike can't even compete with a double. How many guys were running a single ring bike on the pro circuit last year?
I don't know, but I will infer zero. Still, what is practical for them isn't necessarily what is practical for us. Is there a weight penalty for the 1x systems? I expect so. But I hope to see advancements. There have been many so far. Funnily enough, the bikes I ride most frequently have triple cranks.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 09:03 AM
  #128  
tashi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,321
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by jackbombay
"Gear Range", sure, but from a high performance functional standpoint any one chainring bike can't even compete with a double. How many guys were running a single ring bike on the pro circuit last year?
In mountain biking and cyclocross, I think almost all of them.

If a pro gravel biking thing ever gets going, single ring drivetrains will dominate there too I bet.

Personally, I’ll keep choosing what works for me, not what the pros ride.

Last edited by tashi; 04-07-20 at 09:11 AM.
tashi is offline  
Likes For tashi:
Old 04-07-20, 11:49 AM
  #129  
jackbombay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked 459 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider
I don't know, but I will infer zero. Still, what is practical for them isn't necessarily what is practical for us. Is there a weight penalty for the 1x systems? I expect so. But I hope to see advancements. There have been many so far. Funnily enough, the bikes I ride most frequently have triple cranks.
I love triples! One of my triple equipped bikes has an %805 gear range, that will never happen with a single. Singles have their place, my fat bike and my MTB both have single drivetrains and they function well, but they don't quite have the range of a triple and they have bigger gaps between gears.

Originally Posted by tashi
In mountain biking and cyclocross, I think almost all of them.

If a pro gravel biking thing ever gets going, single ring drivetrains will dominate there too I bet.

Personally, I’ll keep choosing what works for me, not what the pros ride.
I meant to specify asphalt racing :-)

I too chose what works for me, but I was specifically talking about function, the double will reign supreme for some time in the road bike world, in a sport where the most microscopic of advantages are always pursued nobody would be riding doubles if there wasn't a functional advantage to them.
jackbombay is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 12:11 PM
  #130  
Piff 
Senior Member
 
Piff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,626
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 780 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times in 401 Posts
Originally Posted by osiris419

40 up front with an 11-42 in the rear and it's DI2.
1x might not be for everyone or every bike. My road bike is 2x11 Dura Ace 9100 and my gravel and mountain bikes are all 1x10 and 1x11.

Man, that's such a nice setup. How well do the tires roll on asphalt?
Piff is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 12:18 PM
  #131  
osiris419
Full Member
 
osiris419's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pepperell MA
Posts: 333

Bikes: 2014 Specialized Allez, Trek Farley, Trek Crockett, Deluxe Team dirt jump BMX, SE Draft, S&M ATF, S&M L.A.M.F., S&M PBR, BSD TrailOrPark, SE Vans PK Ripper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Piff
Man, that's such a nice setup. How well do the tires roll on asphalt?
Thank you! The tires are pretty soft and don’t roll too great on the pavement, they do hook up awesome on the dirt though. They are Panaracer Gravel King SK 700x38
osiris419 is offline  
Likes For osiris419:
Old 04-07-20, 12:32 PM
  #132  
Piff 
Senior Member
 
Piff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,626
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 780 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times in 401 Posts
Originally Posted by osiris419
Thank you! The tires are pretty soft and don’t roll too great on the pavement, they do hook up awesome on the dirt though. They are Panaracer Gravel King SK 700x38
Good to know, thanks. Looking at its cousins, it seems like the regular Gravel King is a pretty good compromise between road/gravel...but at that point I might as well simply use Paselas I suppose the Gravel King either rolls better or is more durable...or both!(?)
Piff is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 01:59 PM
  #133  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,171

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1554 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times in 845 Posts
Originally Posted by BFisher
All I wanna know is, what happens when "they" come out with 13 cog cassettes? Are they called that, or do we skip it altogether like I've heard they do in some very tall buildings? Wouldn't it be, like, bad luck to ride a 13? Especially on a carbon bike! Are you nuts? Like ridin' a powder keg!
All I know for sure is that when common cassettes go to "13", that is when the low-rider bikes will finally at long last start having at least a rear derailer.
dddd is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 02:43 PM
  #134  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,261
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1971 Post(s)
Liked 1,297 Times in 629 Posts
Originally Posted by Piff
Good to know, thanks. Looking at its cousins, it seems like the regular Gravel King is a pretty good compromise between road/gravel...but at that point I might as well simply use Paselas I suppose the Gravel King either rolls better or is more durable...or both!(?)
It's a different sort of design.

Paselas use a thin non-tubeless road casing. If you choose the version with a protection layer, it's a sub-tread belt, intended to shield against particularly sharp objects on the road.

GK slicks use a somewhat thicker casing that makes for easy tubeless setup and should be tougher against sidewall abrasion/cuts, relevant on chunky gravel.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 03:13 PM
  #135  
c0rbin9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Houston
Posts: 84

Bikes: None

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 20 Posts
c0rbin9 is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 03:57 PM
  #136  
dunrobin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 546

Bikes: colnago titanio oval master, pinarello treviso es, centurion prestige, tomac ti 26er, lemond buenos aires, mbk 753, vitus 992 and zx1, rocky mountain hammer disc,bd century titanium, specialized venge expert

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 20 Posts

52*11-32 red cassette.. Only used the 32 once... And no weight penalty.. Regular force WiFli derailleur but 52 is narrow wide. The penalty is quicker wear wear.
dunrobin is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 04:25 PM
  #137  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,691

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 510 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7287 Post(s)
Liked 2,364 Times in 1,382 Posts
I bet experimentation with tire pressure would make the Gravel King tires good for pavement. I could be wrong.
@jackbombay, tell us about that 850% drivetrain.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 05:02 PM
  #138  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,171

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1554 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times in 845 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev
It's a different sort of design.

Paselas use a thin non-tubeless road casing. If you choose the version with a protection layer, it's a sub-tread belt, intended to shield against particularly sharp objects on the road.

GK slicks use a somewhat thicker casing that makes for easy tubeless setup and should be tougher against sidewall abrasion/cuts, relevant on chunky gravel.
Yeah, I've done my share of riding over variously-chunky "gravel" on my 1" and 28c Paselas. The tread cap seems fine, wraps around well, but the thin sidewalls show signs of the outer ply literally wearing away. That means that I've been just plain lucky, that none of those abrading rocks were very sharp!

Panaracer has tires that seem to more or less be a Pasela with reinforced sidewalls, which would be a good road and gravel tire indeed.
I'm heading out on my 1" Paselas just now, fingers crossed since I love venturing off road on my Pro Tour and hope that my good luck isn't all behind me.
If it wasn't for the frankly severe chunkiness of the trails that I often find myself on, the Paselas would surely be adequate for what often passes for "gravel".
dddd is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 05:38 PM
  #139  
gomango
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STP
Posts: 15,223
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 821 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times in 141 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider
I bet experimentation with tire pressure would make the Gravel King tires good for pavement. I could be wrong.
@jackbombay, tell us about that 850% drivetrain.
Two versions of Gravel Kings.

SKs have the knobs and the others are slick.

I ride both and the standard works great in the 700x35 size on our cruddy Twin Cities roads.

We prefer to think of our city streets as "practice" gravel roads.
gomango is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 06:05 PM
  #140  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times in 908 Posts
Originally Posted by iab
As someone who uses VM and CC I will say the CC is superior to the VM, hands down.
I had VM once, and a few CC of antibiotics cured it.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 06:08 PM
  #141  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times in 908 Posts
These just need to be displayed together. Kind of a pretty set.





RobbieTunes is offline  
Likes For RobbieTunes:
Old 04-07-20, 07:05 PM
  #142  
jackbombay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked 459 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by dunrobin

52*11-32 red cassette.. Only used the 32 once... And no weight penalty.. Regular force WiFli derailleur but 52 is narrow wide. The penalty is quicker wear wear.
That looks like a sweet bike for sure!

But, I like the longest steepest hills I can find so that bike is one that would never be in my stable.

Originally Posted by noglider
@jackbombay, tell us about that 850% drivetrain.
%805

Its on my tall bike, triple up front, 54 big ring, 39 middle ring 24 granny ring. 11-36 cassette, here is a pic of it with a close ratio cassette on it, 11-28, the 11-36 of course swaps right on but its currently on my carbon road bike, here is a pic,

I actually just did a full overhaul on my tall bike, my frame builder buddy built me a proper fork with disc tabs for it, and he added disc tabs to the rear when I was at his shop last summer. My old fork had a 1" steer tube, and I upgraded to a 1 1/8" steer tube so I had to chop the old head tube off and add a new one. Went with some plain jane Deore hydraulic MTB disc brakes, 160mm rotors, catalyze automotive paint too, I also painted a bunch of stuff black, the old rear derailleur was SOOOOO sloppy, a "Mega 9" shimano long cage from 2008, and I found a NOS one on ebay that was even black, shifting is so crispy now! I'm pretty happy with how it all came out. 700x32 tires.

jackbombay is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 07:42 PM
  #143  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,261
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1971 Post(s)
Liked 1,297 Times in 629 Posts
Originally Posted by jackbombay
%805

Its on my tall bike, triple up front, 54 big ring, 39 middle ring 24 granny ring. 11-36 cassette
(54/11)/(24/36) is 7.36.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 07:42 PM
  #144  
dunrobin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 546

Bikes: colnago titanio oval master, pinarello treviso es, centurion prestige, tomac ti 26er, lemond buenos aires, mbk 753, vitus 992 and zx1, rocky mountain hammer disc,bd century titanium, specialized venge expert

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 20 Posts
I live in Toronto... There are no really big hills here...it's not because I'm an excellent cyclist...
dunrobin is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 08:04 PM
  #145  
jackbombay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 992
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked 459 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev
(54/11)/(24/36) is 7.36.
Looks like I screwed up my math in the past!
jackbombay is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 07:30 AM
  #146  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times in 908 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev
(54/11)/(24/36) is 7.36.
No one said there'd be math.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 09:02 AM
  #147  
St33lWh33ls
Full Member
 
St33lWh33ls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 13 Posts
I bought a used frame and built a 1X about 3 years ago, it’s been great. A little info from the SRAM 1X micro guide.



St33lWh33ls is offline  
Likes For St33lWh33ls:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.