radroad

The attitudes of entitlement and arrogance are only going to speed the eventual demise of bike shops everywhere. They are so comically clueless. Zero business sense whatsoever. They are oblivious and oblivious to their obliviousness.

It's almost like bike shop owners want to go out of business. The world is changing: adapt or else. The future of bike service and repair is mobile van service not brick and mortar stores.

Bike shops are finished. The nice ones are just staving off the inevitable.

jefnvk

I presume you tip the cashier at the gas station for ringing you up? At McDonalds, when you stop for your morning coffee? The meat guy at Whole Foods when picking up sirloin for your dinner? Someone got a printer off a shelf for you at Office Max, that's worth a tip right? Do you give the new car salesman a couple hundred bucks as a thank you?

Or maybe you should stop being a ****ty employer and pay your employees a fair wage with the labor rates I pay you to service my bike. If you can afford to own a bike shop, you can afford to pay a fair wage that doesn't require tipping. And for the record, the best service bars I go to, bartenders are definitely not playing favorites with the best tippers, because they are professionals doing an excellent job. The only time I see that crap is in dive bars that absolutely no one should be taking business lessons from.

Happy Feet

I have to say I have honestly never considered tipping a LBS employee or for that matter, an automotive mechanic. It seems to be a straightforward financial transaction that is covered by the shop fee. Either that is high enough or it is not but I should not be expected to supplement a mechanics income that way.

jefnvk makes the point that when you extrapolate such thinking outward you wind up tipping virtually everyone you did a transaction with.

I do tip wait staff but in part that is because their social interaction adds to the enjoyment of the meal. I also don't tip poor service. I don't expect a mechanic to "entertain" me in the same way - just fix the bike (for which I am already paying).

Some of the examples of tipping for kindness sound like thinly veiled bribes for better service. My main LBS owner treats me well because he understands customer service and I bring him the bulk of my business. That's the trade off.

As to buying beer? That's a friend thing not a tip thing. Nothing wrong with it but I personally don't hang around the lbs trying to be friends. It's a store.

EdwinHeadwind

The entitlement and arrogance I see comes from the "beat Amazon's price or I'm not buying" crowd. Talk about oblivious.

tagaproject6

"it's not tipping I believe in. It's overtipping."

jefnvk

Yep, sucks that LBSs no longer hold the only way to get bike parts, and are forced to actually become competitive instead of knowing they are your only way to get your bike fixed. If only we could go back to the good old days where the consumer had no option or control...

EdwinHeadwind

What sucks is people who have no comprehension whatsoever of what it actually entails to own a brick-and-mortar store, and naively demand that their LBS be "competitive" with online mass retailers.

When Amazon runs your last local merchant out of business, be sure to tell us about all the "option and "control" that results.

radroad

When you lose the argument, try changing the topic! Fail.

downhillmaster

radroad

You cannot generalize from your neighborhood to the industry as a whole. The industry is collapsing. Here's an overview of the number of bike shops in the US. And below is an overview in the number of cyclists in the US. The third graph shows total visits to bike hops. All show significant to severe decline.

https://redkiteprayer.com/2015/08/wh...ke-shops-gone/

In the UK, bike shop closures are at a 50 year high.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton.../#70a187754f9d

The future of the industry is direct to consumer bikes and parts sales, and mobile van service:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/b...-bicycles.html

Meanwhile, I suggest these shops keep demanding tips from a vanishing customer base and see where that leads. Dodo. Bird.

jefnvk

Nashbar, Jenson, Tree Fort, REI, Competitive Cyclist, Bike Wagon, Ribble, CRC, eBay, and FWIW Amazon is a far worse choice than any of them.

I have limited hobby funds and limitless interests. One of those interests, though, is not propping up uncompetitive shops simply because they exist geographically close to me. Package me what I want at a price I'm happy with, I'll gladly buy from you. Tell me you don't stock the exact widget I want, but you can get me something similar I can't see before paying, and it'll come three days later and $20 more than one from Bike-24, and I'm going to go with the better option for me.

I actually speak with my dollars.

StanSeven

EdwinHeadwind

LOL ... you aren't going to have a choice. Nashbar and Performance are already gone. Which one will Amazon eat next? I'm guessing Jenson.

With a forked tongue, Kemosabe.

EdwinHeadwind

Meanwhile, I suggest you look up the definitions of "demand" and "tip."

EdwinHeadwind

Ban me, Stan! I'm begging you!

downhillmaster

unterhausen

we have had 3 bike shops in town for a very long time. At one time we had 4, but one had a horrible location and a lot of debt and went under. I have always wondered about one of them, I think once the owner decides to retire it will be gone. Look at the number of retail outlets of any kind and you will see a distressing downward trend, especially given the number of jobs that have been lost. Our local mall is likely to be empty soon. There has been a retail bloodbath even over the last year. Not surprising that bike shops would be among them. But I think bike shops are likely to be survivors since they have expertise that their customers don't. It's one thing to go on the internet and buy household goods, it's another to find the right part for your road boost rear hub.

I have never heard of a bike shop owner demanding tips and I don't see it in this thread. If you want special service, it's a good idea. A few 6 packs go a long way. People who don't go to specialty retail stores other than bike shops may not realize what a difficult business it is. I am sure that my local shop saves me money over buying on the internet.

avole

The idea of tips was always to allow employers to give less to their employees than they were worth. In Europe that has been replaced by guaranteed minimum wages, holiday pay, health schemes etc so tips are no longer necessary.

Do I give tips? Sometimes, to local supermarket staff who have to put up with us bumptious customers but it is spontaneous and it is important to give a tip to everybody. I wouldn't insult people by giving a sixpack of beer, a bottle of champagne or whatever, especially in some countries where the practice is not allowed, or where staff who help out are below the age limit.

Cougrrcj

While not bicycle-related, I DO buy a case of beer for the crew at my local junkyard every so often. They let me look around all I want, don't charge me for smaller items, and are ridiculously inexpensive for engines/transmissions.

unterhausen

I would have to say this isn't the case with bike shops, tips are far too irregular. I don't think it was that way originally at food service places either, but that ship has sailed for the most part.

jefnvk

Umm, Performance is going down because of bad management, not competition. And, as previously stated, Amazon plays no significant role in the bicycling retail world, I have zero idea why you are fixated on them.

Spend your money how you see fit. I'll spend mine in the manner that makes sense for me, not someone else.

avole

That's why I specified "in Europe" . Doesn't matter whether it is a bike shop or a restaurant, you are covered in the UK many other countries in Europe by a guaranteed minimum wages by a minimum wage, in France around the 10€ mark, which often has a compulsory pension added on. Techncally, whether it be students serving food in Montmartre or stallhoilders in a market, employers are required to pay this, and not to do so is to incur heavy penalties. The same goes for bike shops. That people choose not to do so is up to them - police will turn blind eyes, or give warnings - but the risksare high.

EdwinHeadwind

Not fixated, just using a handy example of the predatory online model. Two years ago they played no role in the grocery world, either.

Of course you will. Just don't pretend that eliminating bike shops is giving you more "option and control."

radroad

You're just yelling at clouds. Adapt or...

radroad

I visited a coffee shop which used to be one of my favorites. A small "local-ish" chain. The employees used to be top notch. The coffee very good. And the theme of the cafe itself: super clean urban warehouse was just too cool for school. That was 3.5 years ago.

I visit again a few months back. Ugh. What happened? The barista's YELL at the patrons at the top of their lungs about the unruly crooked line. Yeah, you need customers to stay in business, stupid. And then the cashier expects a TIP for tapping a button on the iPad. What for?!? Any monkey can tap a button. I didn't tip. She pouts.

Not to mention the clientele has changed. Drastically. And not for the better.

Retail businesses with their expectation of tips are throwing themselves under the bus. But there are also other reasons why customers prefer to shop from home.