Steel / Alu tariffs
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,783
Bikes: Bianchi San Mateo and a few others
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
We're not. According to the most recent spreadsheet on the U.S. International Trade Commission's web site, there are 12,739 line items on the current list of U.S. import tariffs.
https://www.usitc.gov/tariff_affairs..._databases.htm
https://www.usitc.gov/tariff_affairs..._databases.htm
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,851
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6944 Post(s)
Liked 10,944 Times
in
4,677 Posts
We're not. According to the most recent spreadsheet on the U.S. International Trade Commission's web site, there are 12,739 line items on the current list of U.S. import tariffs.
https://www.usitc.gov/tariff_affairs..._databases.htm
https://www.usitc.gov/tariff_affairs..._databases.htm
#29
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,210
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2761 Post(s)
Liked 2,534 Times
in
1,433 Posts
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,261
Bikes: Salsa Vaya
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I think you'd find that trans-shipping through Canada is illegal in Canada and that it is very much discouraged. Canada has its own steel industry and there is parity in trade with the US. This is a tax on American consumers of steel and aluminum used in manufacturing. It will marginally lower the cost of imported manufactured items not subject to the tariff made out of steel or aluminum (e.g. bicycles and refrigerators) and raise the cost of input materials (e.g. steel bars and tubing) for US producers of manufactured goods. Clever move!
Last edited by asmac; 03-15-18 at 10:08 AM.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,671
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5767 Post(s)
Liked 2,541 Times
in
1,407 Posts
It's on finished raw material, ie. rolled shapes, plate, tubes, etc.
So for example, if one were to import 12' lengths of tubing that would be affected. The fine point is that most high end bike tubing isn't sold that way, it's finished and sold as tube sets, which are considered bike parts under HTS schedule 8714, rather than steel or aluminum.
For those not familiar with import rules, most items can be classified multiple ways, but the general rule is what best describes the item at the time it crosses the border. So steel tubing is steel tubing, but once it's measured, cut and packaged as a kit, it becomes a bike part.
So for example, if one were to import 12' lengths of tubing that would be affected. The fine point is that most high end bike tubing isn't sold that way, it's finished and sold as tube sets, which are considered bike parts under HTS schedule 8714, rather than steel or aluminum.
For those not familiar with import rules, most items can be classified multiple ways, but the general rule is what best describes the item at the time it crosses the border. So steel tubing is steel tubing, but once it's measured, cut and packaged as a kit, it becomes a bike part.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,261
Bikes: Salsa Vaya
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
https://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Aluminum.html
Last edited by asmac; 03-15-18 at 10:10 AM.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,537
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1858 Post(s)
Liked 606 Times
in
403 Posts
You're kidding, right? Aluminum is refined from an ore called bauxite using large amounts of electricity.
How aluminum is made - material, manufacture, making, used, processing, aluminium, composition, product
How aluminum is made - material, manufacture, making, used, processing, aluminium, composition, product
Never seen anyone pull Aluminium Ingots out of the ground.
#34
faster downhill
you make my point. china flooding market with low priced goods so no American company can compete. name an American made carbon fiber frame that is not hand made and out of most (my) peoples price range..........i wish there were some reasonably priced American mfg. soon there may be some American steel again.
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,220
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18403 Post(s)
Liked 15,495 Times
in
7,317 Posts
You're kidding, right? Aluminum is refined from an ore called bauxite using large amounts of electricity.
How aluminum is made - material, manufacture, making, used, processing, aluminium, composition, product
How aluminum is made - material, manufacture, making, used, processing, aluminium, composition, product
The process uses so much electricity that that place had its own coal-fired electricity generating plant, with coal brought in by rail. Amazing process to witness. No synthetic clothing was allowed. Only cotton in case anyone got splashed with molten aluminum. The Frankenstein-looking boots we had to wear were also liquid-proof. I also believe there was also something about them that helped guard against you being electrocuted in the event you touched something charged.
#36
Not racing.
If they even bother to keep the paperwork for the sheets they proxy ship.
Paperwork is very easy to fake/forge. At the percentage per sheet these tariffs would impose, proxy shipping through exempt Mexico makes a lot of sense.
No a sheet of metal is not going to be easy for a CBA agent to spot in the 10-20Minute inspection time. These CBA agents are just trying to keep the flow of traffic going. They are more concerned with drugs/illegal immigrants than hassling businesses looking to save some money.
Paperwork is very easy to fake/forge. At the percentage per sheet these tariffs would impose, proxy shipping through exempt Mexico makes a lot of sense.
No a sheet of metal is not going to be easy for a CBA agent to spot in the 10-20Minute inspection time. These CBA agents are just trying to keep the flow of traffic going. They are more concerned with drugs/illegal immigrants than hassling businesses looking to save some money.
Customs is by no means limited to 10-20 minute inspection time. I've had material held up at the border for weeks, even when the certs were in good order. I make my living with this stuff.
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,851
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6944 Post(s)
Liked 10,944 Times
in
4,677 Posts
you make my point. china flooding market with low priced goods so no American company can compete. name an American made carbon fiber frame that is not hand made and out of most (my) peoples price range..........i wish there were some reasonably priced American mfg. soon there may be some American steel again.
However, manufacturing wage rates are rising in China, and so we may see some industries shifting production to less-developed countries in the near future.
Last edited by Koyote; 03-15-18 at 11:28 AM.
#38
Banned
the companies making steel are doing fine in the US, its the non union workers in them that are losing out..
#39
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,210
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2761 Post(s)
Liked 2,534 Times
in
1,433 Posts
you make my point. china flooding market with low priced goods so no American company can compete. name an American made carbon fiber frame that is not hand made and out of most (my) peoples price range..........i wish there were some reasonably priced American mfg. soon there may be some American steel again.
These tariffs do exactly zero to help manufacturing in the US, and may in fact hurt it.
#40
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,845
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2134 Post(s)
Liked 1,643 Times
in
825 Posts
We're not. According to the most recent spreadsheet on the U.S. International Trade Commission's web site, there are 12,739 line items on the current list of U.S. import tariffs.
https://www.usitc.gov/tariff_affairs..._databases.htm
https://www.usitc.gov/tariff_affairs..._databases.htm
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,546
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5223 Post(s)
Liked 3,579 Times
in
2,341 Posts
it's all BS because there's always a loophole ...: Free-trade zone, also called foreign-trade zone, formerly free port, an area within which goods may be landed, handled, manufactured or reconfigured, and reexported without the intervention of the customs authorities
for example:
there is a simple way to cut costs for manufacturing in South Florida. Prodeco Technologies, makes electric bicycles mainly from components imported from Asia. The parts require import duties that range up to 10 percent.To slash those duties, he set up a "foreign trade zone" in his Oakland Park facilities. The zone essentially remains a foreign territory, so imports going there pay no duty. Inside that "foreign" zone, he assembles the bikes. When workers "export" the bike into U.S. territory, it enters duty-free, as all imported electric bikes do. That saves the company about 4 percent duty in the process, or roughly $40 on a typical mid-price model.
for example:
there is a simple way to cut costs for manufacturing in South Florida. Prodeco Technologies, makes electric bicycles mainly from components imported from Asia. The parts require import duties that range up to 10 percent.To slash those duties, he set up a "foreign trade zone" in his Oakland Park facilities. The zone essentially remains a foreign territory, so imports going there pay no duty. Inside that "foreign" zone, he assembles the bikes. When workers "export" the bike into U.S. territory, it enters duty-free, as all imported electric bikes do. That saves the company about 4 percent duty in the process, or roughly $40 on a typical mid-price model.
#43
Senior Member
it's all BS because there's always a loophole ...: Free-trade zone, also called foreign-trade zone, formerly free port, an area within which goods may be landed, handled, manufactured or reconfigured, and reexported without the intervention of the customs authorities
for example:
there is a simple way to cut costs for manufacturing in South Florida. Prodeco Technologies, makes electric bicycles mainly from components imported from Asia. The parts require import duties that range up to 10 percent.To slash those duties, he set up a "foreign trade zone" in his Oakland Park facilities. The zone essentially remains a foreign territory, so imports going there pay no duty. Inside that "foreign" zone, he assembles the bikes. When workers "export" the bike into U.S. territory, it enters duty-free, as all imported electric bikes do. That saves the company about 4 percent duty in the process, or roughly $40 on a typical mid-price model.
for example:
there is a simple way to cut costs for manufacturing in South Florida. Prodeco Technologies, makes electric bicycles mainly from components imported from Asia. The parts require import duties that range up to 10 percent.To slash those duties, he set up a "foreign trade zone" in his Oakland Park facilities. The zone essentially remains a foreign territory, so imports going there pay no duty. Inside that "foreign" zone, he assembles the bikes. When workers "export" the bike into U.S. territory, it enters duty-free, as all imported electric bikes do. That saves the company about 4 percent duty in the process, or roughly $40 on a typical mid-price model.
#44
Proud hobo biker
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Schertz - New Braunfels area
Posts: 804
Bikes: 2019 Surly Ogre, 2016 Giant Anyroad 2, Lightspeed Roadrunner trike, SE Tripel (in process)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
So, like everything being done by this administration, this will hurt small businesses and not the big guys.
#46
Senior Member
I'm not a friend of this administration, but this game is played by both parties in congress and also has been done by former administration to pander to certain groups.
#47
Senior member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,115
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 656 Times
in
370 Posts
Raw material manufacturers and distributors take this very seriously, as it is their livelihood. They absolutely will bother to keep the paperwork, or else they won't be able to sell their material, if they even get it over the border at all. Heat numbers are also printed directly on the material itself. Go to any sheet metal distributor, they will be able to pull up the mill certs for any sheet in their possession, as well as for any they have sold within at least the last ten years, and in some cases for 40 years or more. Material traceability is a well-developed risk management and liability issue within the raw materials industries.
Customs is by no means limited to 10-20 minute inspection time. I've had material held up at the border for weeks, even when the certs were in good order. I make my living with this stuff.
Customs is by no means limited to 10-20 minute inspection time. I've had material held up at the border for weeks, even when the certs were in good order. I make my living with this stuff.
Entries are now pre processed through the PAPS system, and in almost every case, the driver presents the paperwork at the drive through booth, bar codes are scanned and the truck is sent on its way.
If suspicions are raised about legitimate sources, the shipper can be audited, and that's usually how these things are caught.
I hauled freight back and forth over the border for over 40 years, so I know a bit about how this stuff goes.
Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 03-17-18 at 08:43 AM.
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,462
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
I don't know if my Bike Friday was made with US produced steel. If not, pretty ironic that the tariffs might actually force them to increase prices and cost them some business (which could potentially lead to lay offs). They're one of a small group of US bike producers that actually make their own frames.
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: St Cloud Fl.
Posts: 1,945
Bikes: Only my riders left...
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 782 Times
in
389 Posts
Prices to buy these items are not going to stay the same.
I would, as a business person dealing with another business person, come up with a deal that satisfied both of us.
The quality and the price of the item must be competitive with everybody that wants our business. Including the USA.
Manufacturing is coming back to the states.
I would, as a business person dealing with another business person, come up with a deal that satisfied both of us.
The quality and the price of the item must be competitive with everybody that wants our business. Including the USA.
Manufacturing is coming back to the states.