Road Fan

Sorry DD, I must have read your posts too quickly, though I was originally responding to the gap-near-valve comment.

SJX426 

@Drillium Dude - Jeff, If I was unclear, I glue all the way to the valve stem. the glue gap is opposite the valve, where you want to start removing the tire. I have taken the approach, by accident, applying glue to the entire base tape. The glue gap is only on the rim. Still sticky but not as much as where the glue is on the rim.
Maybe you need a second set of wheels to try glue! Then you can report on the differences and the preference.

Drillium Dude 

I may be okay then - the Giros I have are much, much older than that. I wonder what they changed about them that made them so wishy-washy later on?

My version - note the nicely-browning sidewall:



DD

Drillium Dude 

No, I got that. Somewhere along the lines, in one post or another, the idea got mixed up; rest assured the area I will leave sans tape will be across from the valve and not at the valve itself

I do have the second set of Mavic SSCs but I'm going to wait until I have to take one of the taped tires off and see what happens. If that results in a clean removal without tearing off the base tape or worse, I may just stick with the tape. Personally I want to stick with a single approach so, sad to say, I may never actually go with glue - but never say never.

DD

Road Fan

For me, the glue holding the base tape to the tire needs to be stronger than the glue holding the base tape to the rim. If this is not the case, then when you pull your tire off of the rim, where the base tape ends up is anybody's guess. This is not how tubulars are expected to be used. I don't beleive the base tape is supposed to be sacrificial.

This also tells me we do not want the rim cement to be the strongest possible adhesive.

I need to search - I used to have a set of papers on tubular glueing, which also talked about base tape attachment.

seedsbelize 

I glued the second today, Yellow Jersey Servizio Course. Tomorrow I find out what the tubular ride is. I have a Challenge Elite as my spare.
I did not leave a glue gap anywhere on the rim. They're on the 79 Trek 930.

Drillium Dude 

Update: Got the tires today and just stretched them onto the wheels. Think I'm going to let them sit for a couple days - still awaiting the tubular tape, anyways. A bit tight going on, but nothing too difficult - and the tires look/feel fantastic. I can see I'll be dickering around a bit to get them perfectly aligned on the rims, but that's part of the fun, right?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but the tires are marked 28" x 25 - shouldn't that be 700c x 25?

Anyway, here's what they look like mounted but not yet taped:



DD

Drillium Dude 

Also, is it just me or does anybody else suffer from not wanting to be the first one to begin the wearing-away of the anodizing on the braking surfaces? I swear, subconsciously I've most likely avoided using this wheelset because the rims are pristine - as are those of the SSC wheelset. Come to think of it, I've never used that set, either

DD

canyoneagle

Yup! 700c and "28" are one in the same, as far as I know. I've seen them used interchangeably numerous times.

The key is the 622 ISO bead - I believe the nominal (i.e. 28) refers to outside diameter, which is dependent on casing volume.

musings per sir Sheldon: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

seedsbelize 

I recall the 28" being a German thing.

SJX426 

German? I think the designation is found on tubulars more often than clinchers.

Tubular
P1030570 on Flickr

Clincher equivalent:
P1010557 on Flickr

Drillium Dude 

I think it has to do with tubulars, too; both Challenge and Vittoria tubulars use 28 x ___mm but on their clinchers they read 700c x ___mm. Have to admit for a half-second I was concerned I'd bought the wrong sized tire (I did this before at a swap meet where I bought a pair of NOS tubulars which were for those weird-sized triathlon wheels back in the 90s).

Tape is supposed to arrive by Saturday; the tires shipped fast so who knows, maybe I can take a quick spin on Sunday if the weather cooperates.

DD

Drillium Dude 

The more I think about just grabbing the Tubasti and gluing these up tonight, the more the sage advice above brings me back down to Earth and reminds me to wait for the tape. Plenty of time to try glue - in fact, I think I'll just go ahead and glue up the Giros onto the SSC wheelset so's I have a fully-ready spare set. I mean, come on, a big part of the reason I'm trying these is because I want the purported benefits, so the easiest, most direct way to get there is tape-and-go (plus another couple days stretching can't hurt the tires, amiright?). I was looking the bike over tonight and for the first time in a long time I was getting excited about slinging a leg over the top tube and giving it a proper go. This bike needs to get ridden but more importantly I need to go for a ride on it

A couple glue-specific questions for all: (1) are two tubes of glue enough for both tires and both rims? and (2) approximately how much time for centering the tire accurately should I have before the glue sets? Oh, and I do not possess a truing stand, so I'll be centering the tires with the wheels in the frame.

DD

Drillium Dude 

Thank you! Honestly, the only bit I'm concerned about putting visible wear on are the pristine sidewalls of both mint wheelsets. The drillium stuff is almost all de-anodized so if it got scratched up I'll just get out the files and polish to put the damage right. By the way, it weighed 20.1 lbs on a friend's fishing scale as he held it in front of him and I steadied the front wheel. For whatever that's worth; it's obviously lighter than anything else including the 53cm Colnago. The wheels make all the difference and I'm hoping that translates into F1 performance on the road

I hear such wonderful things about Veloflex - but I just can't get past that obnoxiously-huge logo. When trying to put together a low-key statement it's hard to accomplish with the half-circumference labeling of today. I remember when the Vittoria Open Corsa series labels seemed large; now they represent my new normal - but that's as big as I'll go. Petty? Of course

Once I get feedback on my couple questions I've decided I will glue up a pair of my existing tubulars onto the SSCs to serve as a ready-spare wheelset. I have plenty of those disposable blue gloves so hopefully the mess can be kept to a minimum. At least the tires have been pre-stretched for a long time and should go on easily. My only fear is the glue setting before I get the tire centered how I like - and just imagine how OCD I might be about that!

Anyway, like wheelbuilding (which I hope to do this year), I've gotta glue up and use at least one pair of tubulars, right? Right

DD

Road Fan

+1, make more bikes ready to ride!

I use the blue gloves to spread tubular cement along the rim bed and the tire.

SJX426 

Ditto

One trick I learned was to slightly inflate the tire so it is round and the base tape is in the same position as the side wall. Makes it easier to apply the glue and rotate the tire without rubbing glue on your hand or any work surface. Most tubulars will start to turn "inside out" as air is add to the tire off the rim. I have a small can of Mastic One and use my gloved finger to dip in the glue to apply. I have used a tube and found that it works for a single tire. Depends how much the base tape soaks it up. Obviously a previously glued base is only going to need enough glue to activate the prior application. Deflate after glue is applied.

The most challenging part for me is placing the tire on the rim with sticky base tape. Valve first, of course and then immediately start stretching the tire to get the minimum effort required to get the last bit on. Ignore centering during this process, be careful about getting the sidewall on the glued rim! This step is what makes the tape so appealing.

I do two coats on the base tape, because it soaks the glue up, and one on the rim. your will have plenty of time to adjust the tire. I use the base tape as a gauge from side to side as its edge is always exposed.
Placing the wheel in the frame helps align the center of the tread with the center of the brake. Single pivot brakes are the best with that mounting nut in the middle.

obuckler

i think in the beginning I used more glue but never one tube for one tire. As I glued more and got a feel for how well the tires glued down I realized I did not want too much glue because it may be really hard to remove when I needed to and with excess glue it can sorta squeeze out over time in the form of little rubber cement nubbies at the rim interface. Brandt explains this is because of tire squirm.

So I settled on one layer first on rim and base tape . Dry 24 hours. One last layer on rim. Install. There is plenty of time to make sure the tire is centered. contrast that with tape —once you pull that strip the tire is not moving.

And with fresh glue only on the rim the install process is clean. For me this was easier than tape. I got to adjust exactly how much grip I had to my style of riding (I don’t scream down mountain descents). Someone said always check a glue job by trying to rip your tire off bare handed. Mine pass that test.

one thing not mentioned yet regarding tape is this: I never liked the height the tape itself added to the rim interface. My experience was only Tufo. That one seemed to be about a sixteenth of an inch. That always bothered my. Rightfully so or not.

Classtime 

Some base tapes will soak up the first coat of glue and they will want another. My recent Vittorias in both Rally and Corsa models required just one coat. I followed Continentals gluing instructions once. Never Again will I glue a tire on that well unless I'm going for a world record on the track.

Stretch the tire upon installation from the very beginning at the valve. If that last bit is much harder to get over the rim, start over and stretch harder from start to finish. You will not want that flat spot that results from over stretching that last section. I doubt you can feel it on the road but you can see it in the stand and that bugs us.

seedsbelize 

I read that it was a Continental thing. I read it on the internet so it may or may not be correct.

seedsbelize 

Yellow Jersey recommends one coat rim and one coat tire. On my first, I put two coats tire. One the second, one and one. I used slightly more than one tube of glue, with two coats on the spare.
I ride flat, dry roads, and I'm pushing 69. I can't imagine I need fear rolling a tire.

Drillium Dude 

For sure I will inflate the tire when using the glue for the other wheelset for the reason you gave; I noticed the first time I pumped one up a bit off the rim that it began to "roll back", almost like it was trying to turn itself inside out. Also sounds like options are one or two coats on on rims and tires, but a total of three on each wheel. I'll see what mine seem to want/need. And yes, I am a bit concerned about getting glue on the rim sidewall, but because I'll be gluing up some pre-stretched tires on the SSCs I will likely avoid this issue. Since I have single-pivot brakes on all my bikes that will serve as my lining up point.

DD

Drillium Dude 

Good deal - I have two 1.5oz tubes so that sounds like enough to do both spare wheels. Thanks for the tip about gluing sparingly so as not to have it weep out and onto the braking surface. As far as the tape goes, the Jantex 76 stuff is pretty thin - maybe only a couple millimeters at most? Shouldn't affect the interface too much I don't believe.

I think I'll be lots less worried about the tire coming off if they've sat for awhile after gluing/taping. It looks like that will be the case for the time I'm in AZ. I might get them taped/glued up but the weather may not allow for a test ride. We'll see.

DD

Drillium Dude 

Tape is finally here

And because I am planning on keeping this (duh - why else would I be making it road-worthy, right?), I've decided to make one last substitution. Took the CdM bar from the stem/bar combo removed from the Medici and will use it to replace the GdI bar on the Alpina. I prefer the CdM shape - and deeper drop aesthetic - and this one is about 1cm wider to boot. But. I have used up my stash of old-school Velox tape and have to order something with which to cover the bars. I'm leaving for Phoenix in a few days so ordering won't work as the stuff will deliver while I'm away, so I'll have a look 'round the shops in AZ.

Hit a snag this weekend: the nylon wheel I picked up to remove the old glue doesn't do anything at all! Could be that it's not abrasive enough, but more likely is that my cordless drill doesn't have the speed/torque necessary to do the job? Anyway, any suggestions for an effective solvent? Figure I'll do them outside if I go that way.

Anyway, that's the update for now. Going a little slowly, but at least I have all the stuff to get the tires stuck on - once I have a clean surface to stick them to

DD

merziac

@Drillium Dude

Old school carb cleaner, Berrymans, Gumout, Motorcraft PM-2.

Foamy, non evaporative, not the modern toothless kind.

Probably still going to need a wire wheel too.

bertinjim 

DrilliumDude -

To remove the old glue without solvent, use a brass or steel bristle rotary brush on a Dremel. Works a treat but be prepared to get dusty.