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Personal Property insurance while touring to cover bike...

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Personal Property insurance while touring to cover bike...

Old 08-11-19, 04:33 PM
  #26  
Happy Feet
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I think I have about 10 years to go but hope to reduce my workload to 4 days a week before then. As you say we are grinding slowly but now that the kids are all finished high school I am working on a shorter term plan to downsize so our living needs are less. Housing prices are insane around here and I want to set things up so our kids can have options (like tiny homes on our land or something) if they want. While excellent as far as school access was concerned, I think we could easily live comfortably in half the size of our current home.

It's not all doom and gloom though. In 2016 I did a Western Canada tour that I linked to an awareness raising campaign for dementia. While supportive, I don't think my wife really got it and humoured me but after seeing the positive results from it, and a later fundraising ride I organized, she's all goo goo about doing another. One thing I learned about that trip was that it's hard for one person to wear all the hats (riding, blogging, social media, coordinating awareness or fundraising efforts...) so tentative plans are for a 2020 cross Canada tour with her and her friend following in support. We all work at the same place (as Rehab and nursing), one of the largest campuses of care in Western Canada, and our employer has been very supportive of my efforts so far in this area so if we can figure it out I think it'll be a go.
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Old 08-12-19, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Just me, but I figure if you can afford to buy insurance to cover your bike and gear while touring you can afford to set aside money to replace your bike and gear if it goes missing.


It's $66/ a month to someone on a very fixed income for the insurance, with no room to spare for buffer on anything else. Let's say you have $5k of stuff and electronics. That's $5,000 / $66 (a month of insurance) = 75 months of savings before you are self covered. 75 months / 12 months a year = 6 years before you have enough to recover everything at cost.

What does someone do in those six years if something does go wrong, they are not even close to saving the total amount, and don't have the funds now to shell out another $5k if something does go wrong?

What if they are doing it on a loan, and need to insure that loan?

At day one of the policy, someone is covered 100% of cost, for everything. While trying to pay insurance, someone also can "still" do what you are saying, and put a little aside a month, so that when they are touring years 6-12, they don't have to carry insurance, and will have that buffer like you mentioned. But at the same exact time, someone also has to put some money aside for future bikes, upgrades, etc... So it's quite the balancing act for some folks that aren't in better economic circles.



To me that is just part of living within your means. In the long run it will be cheaper, the insurance company is making money after all and with some care you will most likely never file a claim.

I don't really want to get into lectures, ethics, or morals about "living withing your means" stuff. That's not logical in most settings and contexts in the regular world. It's a dog eat dog world. We clearly all don't have the same choices, blessings, benefits, or outcomes.



Part of that living within your means may involve buying a bike and gear that is at the right price point as opposed to best one you could hope for.

I just built a complete bike from the ground up based on this principle in context of what is available today. The bike costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $3k when all is said in done. In the big picture of bikes, my bike is just OK, but a big ol' clunky piece of steele, and definitely not my top choice if I had an unlimited budget. Compared to 99.9999% of the kids and folks that live in my neighborhood, it's like riding around in a Cadillac when people can't afford to eat all around me. It's pretty disgusting that I am riding around on a $3k bicycle when people are sleeping in the alley's and park outside my windows going hungry.


Don't lose sight of the notion that good enough actually is good enough. I am not saying you shouldn't have nice gear, but the cost shouldn't become a big burden. Knowing you can afford to replace it all in a pinch gives you a level of freedom that tops the joy of owning the highest end gear possible if you are busting the budget to get that gear.

I agree with you if we are talking about simply, "get a bike, and go out and ride..." in general. I don't agree for someone that is looking to do it full time, or even as a way of life all the time. I agree with there is a "middle of the road" and "bang for your buck" in the context of a $3,000 bike world. Let's face it...people talk about how you can get great bikes for less than $1k or at $1,200, but I wouldn't want to live on those bikes all the time with what is available, and more importantly, I don't think they will last day in and day out without key points being upgraded to quality stuff. Can it be done? Sure. But I would rather go the extra mile and build right the first time on very key areas, and there is just about nowhere I would go stock anything if I was to go live on a bike for any period of time. You can go in all kinds of directions with this conversation, and be right or correct on many different footings depending on context or position...but I am busting the budget to get there, including even borrowing to get there, because some folks can't sit around and wait another couple of years while we are aging at 50 years old and our bodies are breaking down. In some ways, it's now or never. And in other ways, "whatever it takes..." I guess that is what having a passion for something does to you.


All of this is especially true for those who are planning to be on the road full time (you are the guy asking about that right?). Frugality would seem to be very much key for someone living on the road, and self insuring in the form of having a cash buffer for the type of coverage you are talking about makes more sense to me than paying an insurance premium.
I agree with absolutely everything you said. But life just doesn't quite work that way for everyone else. And some people can't live in the same boxes, filters, or realities of others.

Does the things you said apply to those on the run in South America right now? How about those in prison camps in North Korea? And you think it applies to a black or brown kid in the hood, at 12, with not a single resource, option, person who really gives a crap, and the weight of the world on their shoulders, trying to figure out how to survive with no guidance or really anything for that matter?



Life doesn't really work the way you're implying for all. Period. If you don't know that, then you haven't toured enough of the world and perhaps only credit card touring or something, I really don't know. My impressions and experiences of the world are not quite the same at all, and I probably don't gravitate towards the same scenarios, situations, or even people in life as many others do. As I think I may have just heard gun shots outside.



I agree with frugality on the road and see it as a means of survival. It's something I have been working on and learning over the last couple of years...of course after it was a bit too late in life. But I live frugal now, the best I can, while still helping others too. I often go outside my means to help other people and do a lot of stupid stuff like that. Many folks wouldn't agree, but that's not up for debate with me. I like that about me even if you would think it's wrong of me to not do stuff like that. Sadly, I am one of these type of idiots that can't seem to ever mind their own business apparently:




BTW...the pair of shoes that are on my feet right now are not my choice either. Guess why I am wearing a cheap pair of sneakers and posting a picture above like that?

Sitting on an expensive bike is hard for me talking about insurance sometimes....but I don't need lessons in frugality when I am wearing cheap shoes instead of what I really want because some old lady was begging walking with holes in the souls of her shoes. I do a lot of stupid stuff like that and hope that some silly stories about Angels and good karma stuff will hold true and take care of those things instead. A lot of folks would say that stuff is not true and probably insane.

But then again, someone thinking about getting on their bike and riding out into the world, without a major plan, no sense of real direction to go, isn't probably grounded in the best reality to begin with...depending on context and audience

Last edited by Bike Jedi; 08-12-19 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 08-12-19, 01:46 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Furthermore, if you have an insurance policy, that policy can subsidize careless behavior. By that I mean if you go into a restaurant and you think any loss (that exceeds a deductible) will be covered by the insurance company, you may be less careful to lock up your possessions than you would be if you have no insurance policy.
Everything you own, your way of life, how you are literally moving to your next destination is sitting outside for any length of time...

I am not less cautious. Just the same. Going through that experience is not worth it. What would worry me would be folks thinking like that, pushing the envelope, and eventually policies like that being exploited and taken advantage of, and then it not being there anymore for folks who need it like I might.
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Old 08-12-19, 06:48 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post
It's $66/ a month to someone on a very fixed income for the insurance, with no room to spare for buffer on anything else. Let's say you have $5k of stuff and electronics. That's $5,000 / $66 (a month of insurance) = 75 months of savings before you are self covered. 75 months / 12 months a year = 6 years before you have enough to recover everything at cost.

What does someone do in those six years if something does go wrong, they are not even close to saving the total amount, and don't have the funds now to shell out another $5k if something does go wrong?
It is their choice, but I'd consider it a poor one to tie up that much in gear if they didn't have a few $k in reserve.

What if they are doing it on a loan, and need to insure that loan?
Are you seriously suggesting someone might take out a loan to tour full time? Or are we talking about insuring for a single trip? They are two entirely different things.

I don't really want to get into lectures, ethics, or morals about "living withing your means" stuff. That's not logical in most settings and contexts in the regular world. It's a dog eat dog world. We clearly all don't have the same choices, blessings, benefits, or outcomes.
True, but it is also about what we do with what we have. Being frugal isn't a trait limited to either end of the income scale. Rich and poor people can both be frugal and either can be a spendthrift.

I am lucky enough to be retired and financially pretty comfortable now. I am thankful for that. Yes I am lucky. Most of the luck is that I was raised by parents who spent their younger married lives during the depression. They were also of an ethnic heritage that is noted, probably rightfully so, for being frugal and hard working. So frugality and work ethic was beat into my head for my whole young life and while I may he resisted and rebelled as a kid, it has served me well. When you live like you are poorer than you actually are it pays off two ways. First you put away more and second when it comes time to live off of what you put away you are used to living on much less. Or to look at the flip side when you spend all that you have or worse yet live in debt, you not only save nothing, but you are used to an unmaintainable lifestyle.

BTW, that same frugality comes in really handy on tour. It is nice to be able to live on next to nothing, even if you don't need to.

Let's face it...people talk about how you can get great bikes for less than $1k or at $1,200, but I wouldn't want to live on those bikes all the time with what is available, and more importantly, I don't think they will last day in and day out without key points being upgraded to quality stuff.
I think there is a very good reason folks say that. I know that my last coast to coast ride was on a bike in that category that had somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 miles on it and the components were pretty much all original other than a very few that were swapped to allow for different gearing and a rim that was replaced. It probably has closer to 100,000 miles on it but I don't have accurate records for quite a few years of it's use. Suffice it to say it has seen a lot of use in a variety of situations including a number of years of daily commuting, a number of years of training rides where it logged 10,000 per year, and some touring including a coast to coast ride (San Diego to Pensacola). Any way I don't see any reason why it wouldn't still serve pretty well for more long miles. That particular bike is a race oriented bike so it isn't for heavier loads (I toured with ultralight backpacking gear), but a similarly priced touring bike would serve equally well IMO.

I did some heavy touring on a $600 touring bike (probably equivalent to a $1000 bike today) the first tour was 4200+ miles (Trans America), then I did another three 1000+ mile tours, there were quite a few miles of local riding around town, and then at some point my daughter took over the bike and rode it daily as a ride to work commuter and weekend rider. After getting a nagging rear wheel problem sorted out the bike has been through two chains, several tires front and back, numerous bar tape changes, numerous brake pad changes, a couple cable replacements, routine cleaning and lubrication and not much else. The rear wheel problem was a freak issue with the rear cluster that could have happened with a more expensive bike. There was another bike just like it in the family that saw similar service with similar results, but no rear wheels problems.

I honestly don't think you get much more reliability by spending more with only one exception. Splurging a little on the wheels might be a good idea. Not an absolute necessity, but maybe a good investment. Sinking a lot of money into the frames and all the other components is much more of a luxury than a necessity. I'd even question if you actually get more reliability by spending more on most components like brakes, shifters, derailleurs, and so on once you get to what you find on a $1000 to $1200 bike. The difference is often more about finish or sometimes weight. In some cases something like cheap steel cogs or rings may last much longer.

If you want an extreme example of a cheap choice working out okay... I met a guy from Japan on the Pacific Coast. He was doing the whole 1800+ miles of the US portion of the coast. He was using walmart quality bike and gear and managing fine. He seemed to be having the time of his life. It may not have been my first choice, but then again the whole deal probably cost less than shipping his stuff to and from Japan would have. He planned to just give it all away at the end of the trip. Anything that failed could easily be replaced at any point, but he had at that point had no major gear failures. I don't recall exactly where I met him but I think he was about 1/3 of the way down the coast.

Most of the full time tourists I have met, were actually better described homeless guys or gals and their gear was closer to my Japanese friend's gear than what most bike tourists use. I met a lot of those folks on the same Pacific Coast trip. They tended to move around the same area just kind of bouncing around. IME full time bike tourists other than these homeless folks are pretty rare or just don't travel on the same roads that I have toured. I have met some that full time toured for some limited and planned duration like say one year or more, but I think of that as being a really long tour rather than as a full time lifestyle. I met a number of folks doing stuff like riding the length of the Americas Alaska to the tip of Argentina (several years), but again I am inclined to think of that as a single really long tour. I guess it depends on how you look at it, but given that it has a somewhat planned route and endpoint I still think of it as a trip.

I agree with absolutely everything you said. But life just doesn't quite work that way for everyone else. And some people can't live in the same boxes, filters, or realities of others.

Does the things you said apply to those on the run in South America right now? How about those in prison camps in North Korea? And you think it applies to a black or brown kid in the hood, at 12, with not a single resource, option, person who really gives a crap, and the weight of the world on their shoulders, trying to figure out how to survive with no guidance or really anything for that matter?
Some of what I said is universal and applies no matter the situation. It may become kind of moot when you have nothing, because living within your means may be a forced necessity. They are living within their means and have no choice. The thing is we were talking about going touring full time, $3000 bicycles, buying insurance... all things those folks won't be thinking about. Thinking about those things implies that you have lots of options that they don't have.

I made some suggestions about what I thought were good choices. I think that you could save yourself some money and be better off by following them. Taking care to protect your gear the risk would be low and the money saved would mitigate any eventual losses if they did occur. You are obviously free to disagree. The choices are yours to make.

BTW, if you do get coverage please do your homework. Not only check the actual policy, but check on what kind of feed back they get from customers who filed claims. I know that when I was sailing a lot of other sailors had problems with their coverage especially when traveling to other parts of the world. Be careful about whether any plan you buy covers everywhere you plan to travel. Check on how they are about paying claims. Do they pay quickly, how badly do they depreciate the value of your stuff, or do they otherwise figure out reasons to stiff you? Will they jack up your premiums after a claim? Cancel your policy?

Insurance IMO is for things you can't afford to handle on your own or that would financially break you. Health issues are way more likely to do that, so I'd suggest you worry more about health coverage than bike and gear coverage. Also if you will be traveling internationally be sure what they offer wrt transporting you to a major city hospital and eventually home in the event of serious injury. This could be a huge deal if you will be way off the grid in some undeveloped country. Costs and logistics of getting transported and treated could be a real problem, especially if you are broke and have no coverage. It could be financial death or even actual death.
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Old 08-12-19, 11:53 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
It is their choice, but I'd consider it a poor one to tie up that much in gear if they didn't have a few $k in reserve.
Then I am making poor choices.


Are you seriously suggesting someone might take out a loan to tour full time?
I didn't "suggest" anything. I explained some variables that might be in play for some folks, like my situation. I live month to month with very little room to spare. There will "always" be more important things to get when you live in poverty rather than putting a little bit aside each month for things like a bike, and taking years to save.


Or are we talking about insuring for a single trip?
I was more talking about for folks that plan on riding on a regular basis, that are traveling. I am not sure the semantics anymore on "touring." It seems someone wants to hijack the word and use it for "their" means, rather that what the word means, to take ownership of it. The word touring means:



travel round, travel through, journey through, go on a trip through, go on an excursion in, explore, voyage around, trek around, sightsee in, holiday in, cruise, range over, roam in, rove through, wander through, globetrot;


So when I use the word "touring" I am using it by the definition and my own personal intent, not the "image" that folks want it to be or think it should be for some industry or the like. I am a person, who has a bicycle, that wants to "tour" around on it, while I figure out how to survive and see the world living frugal, on a limited budget, and little support.


They are two entirely different things.
Actually, if you use the word "touring" they are many different things. I think most people that credit card tour are "vacationing," not "touring" in my opinion, but that's semantics and beyond the scope of this conversation, and then I would be quilty of the same thing I just accused others in a few sentences back. But to put it in a different context for the sake of argument.


True, but it is also about what we do with what we have. Being frugal isn't a trait limited to either end of the income scale. Rich and poor people can both be frugal and either can be a spendthrift.
Agreed. I am a frugal person on my own spending, and I am not frugal at all when it comes to others or making sacrifices that other's don't or wouldn't keep them in the category as being a "frugal" person. I am not sure it matters to define it, because only someone truly frugal gets it anyway, and you don't need to explain how to be frugal to those folks


I am lucky enough to be retired and financially pretty comfortable now.
That's not lucky, that's blessed. That's beyond blessed in many ways. Lucky is hitting the lotto, finding a $100 bill when you are broke, etc... Getting those things are blessings from God that I was never fortunate enough to experience or have, no matter how hard I tried, or what I did. People foolishly think it has something to do with "their" will that things happened like that for them, and that's beyond ridiculous and not true at all. You are given everything you have, and sadly, many of the folks that live in that top 5% of the world think they deserve it, worked harder than the rest, or where more skilled and deserving than others. Those things are simply not true at all, but that's outside the scope of this conversation. My experience is that those 5% of the world folks, think that eveyone else that doesn't have it, doesn't deserve it for whatever reason, either consciously or subconsciously.


I am thankful for that.
I doubt that. Unless you are giving God praise on a regular basis for it, I sincerely doubt that you are to the level you are truly blessed then.


Yes I am lucky.
Luck actually has ZERO to do with it. You just haven't been shown differently is all, so that's what you believe or are selling that to others, or at least to me here. Either you know and aren't saying, which would be deceit, or you simply don't know because you haven't been shown. If you haven't been shown, then you will think what you believe is true and there is nothing I can do to get around that fact. It also wouldn't be worth the conversation because you would insist you are correct, when you are not.


Most of the luck is that I was raised by parents who spent their younger married lives during the depression. They were also of an ethnic heritage that is noted, probably rightfully so, for being frugal and hard working.
I doubt most of that is true, but the filters of things and how you perceive the world is all. You had no choice but to be "frugal and hard working" during the depression. It was a way of life. In fact, one of the things this country was originally known for and could be proud of was during that time how America's came together, tightened their belt strap, and worked together in community to overcome. Soup kitchens in America are a direct result of all that back then. As for it being an "ethnic" thing...whatever. That's silly superstition and tradition being passed down. Most folks were also so "ethnic" that they stopped helping anyone outside of their own "ethnicity," so badly that racism exists in the country to the levels it does today. Go to New York sometime and see the little neighborhoods divided up to ethnicity even still today, in a country that doesn't have a racism problem though. It's a shame that many of those morals about helping your neighbor that your parents were allegedly a part of, didn't get passed down to generations of folks so that many of us aren't in the jams we are in today. My experience has also been that true hard work, ethics, morals, honesty, etc... does NOT pay off, get rewarded, or even recognized. That hasn't been my experience. So to each their own.


So frugality and work ethic was beat into my head for my whole young life and while I may he resisted and rebelled as a kid, it has served me well.
Not been my experience at all. In fact, the harder you work and try, the worse it got for me. What I learned is that you trade off who you really are on the inside to appease others and survive more than anything. I wouldn't want what most people have on the inside of them as a result of this compromise and mentality. It leads people to do horrible things with no real accountability, repercussions, and often a lot of hypocrisy about things like "work ethics." Wells Fargo (and the like) still existing after the corrupt things they did to get ahead and the impact it had on American's is a great example to show you how ridiculous lectures of work ethics, morals, etc... is when folks are just asking questions about how to insure their bike.


When you live like you are poorer than you actually are it pays off two ways. First you put away more and second when it comes time to live off of what you put away you are used to living on much less. Or to look at the flip side when you spend all that you have or worse yet live in debt, you not only save nothing, but you are used to an unmaintainable lifestyle.
Living poor and being poor is two totally different things, and my experience is that most people who "think" they lived poor or understand it, have never actually done it and usually are standing on some moral or ethical high ground based on their blessings rather than what is real, especially the mentality of what it is truly like to be poor. When you live in survival mode thinking constantly, for 24 hours at a time, it creates a different type of impenetrable psyche that could not be understood unless truly experienced and have something to compare it to. You yourself said that you have had hard working folks and a life of blessings, so you wouldn't understand it at all, no matter how hard you try or think you do. You never will either according to your own words. So then it's not a conversation that can be had with you because it would be like taking chinese to someone who only speaks English, and them nodding their head insisting they understand, or worse, know better.


BTW, that same frugality comes in really handy on tour. It is nice to be able to live on next to nothing, even if you don't need to.
Choices must be a beautiful thing. Some of us know exactly what it's like to live next to nothing because we have to make choices between food or a bike. Guess that makes me an expert on frugality then. When other folks start making more decisions about getting less of a pair of shoes on their own feet so they can buy two pairs and give the other one away instead, then I can handle lectures of "frugal" from folks that are blessed I don't believe or think the same way you do at all, and your experiences haven't been mine at all either.


But I am frugal, hoping to "tour" according to the definition provided, and have to think about insurance to protect my assets because it is all I have. It's the down side of not being blessed with economic security.


I honestly don't think you get much more reliability by spending more with only one exception.
Well then this industry is build on 100% pride and no real reason to upgrade anything at all. Not only that, but most folks out there that are touring full time wouldn't agree with you either because there is a general philosophy or principle that echoes here too which is, "build right, done once." I disagree with you, and every component I have upgraded strongly disagrees with you to date also. And I haven't even been off stock wheels yet. I wouldn't personally tour around the world on a Walmart bike. I would rather stay home.


Splurging a little on the wheels might be a good idea. Not an absolute necessity, but maybe a good investment. Sinking a lot of money into the frames and all the other components is much more of a luxury than a necessity.
Disagree.


I'd even question if you actually get more reliability by spending more on most components like brakes, shifters, derailleurs, and so on once you get to what you find on a $1000 to $1200 bike.
After doing the homework on it for two years, I strongly disagree, and so does the existent of not only this website, but every other website on the subject out there. Then why aren't pro's of anything associated with bicycling all out on Walmart bikes racing their asses off? That's not even a logical statement at all.


Most of the full time tourists I have met, were actually better described homeless guys or gals and their gear was closer to my Japanese friend's gear than what most bike tourists use.
Well consider me that then, with a nicer bike, so that I can stay away from many of those homeless folks that are on Walmart bikes, that are out in front of the bike racks at Walmart begging for whatever. Not trying to look down on anyone, but there is a class of homeless touring folks that I also don't want to be associated with or put into be default because of my own frugality or poverty.


I met a lot of those folks on the same Pacific Coast trip. They tended to move around the same area just kind of bouncing around.
I have fears of falling into this group of folks out of survival or necessity long term.


full time bike tourists other than these homeless folks are pretty rare or just don't travel on the same roads that I have toured.
I would assume that I would fall into a category of "rare" in anything I do so that doesn't surprise me. I don't honestly know what I am looking to do other than explore, and pretty much do what I am doing now, only not doing the same loops anymore around Denver metro. Just take what I am doing now on the road for the most part. I ride a lot, go to areas other's don't, and have a little kid in me that still see's the world as something that needs to be explored and conquered, not be a part of. I don't want to be a part of it anymore, just go see it.


I have met some that full time toured for some limited and planned duration like say one year or more, but I think of that as being a really long tour rather than as a full time lifestyle.
I would consider that a full time lifestyle if you are going to do it for more than a year. That's kind of what I want to do. Go tour for a while, find someplace new worth sticking around or seeing for a little while, maybe weeks or months, maybe even years, and then move on to the next tour.


I met a number of folks doing stuff like riding the length of the Americas Alaska to the tip of Argentina (several years), but again I am inclined to think of that as a single really long tour. I guess it depends on how you look at it, but given that it has a somewhat planned route and endpoint I still think of it as a trip.
I don't fit in any category other than using the definition of the word "touring."


Touring - travel round, travel through, journey through, go on a trip through, go on an excursion in, explore, voyage around, trek around, sightsee in, holiday in, cruise, range over, roam in, rove through, wander through, globetrot;


I think that I am using the word appropriately, it seems like others want to define the word more than what it actually means and hijack it for personal, private, or commercial use. That's pretty standard for a world that deals strictly with "ownership" and what is "mine" from my understanding of things. It's what happens when you build a nation on slavery and that still resonates throughout our beings, culture, and touches upon everything we know or understand, and sadly, nobody knows or understands this. Most people don't know these things because of the veil pulled over their eyes and false hope and promises of freedom. They think that their own slavery to things is what set them free, while it imprisons others for that same very freedom. Just ask all those hard working folks with good work ethics that you talk about that still honestly believe they did nothing wrong at Wells Fargo, but just came from hard working ethnic based families that put their own nose to the grindstone's and not caring about how hard they truly work, and to what end means, as long as they are working hard.


But you really don't want to get into a dance with me on semantics


Some of what I said is universal and applies no matter the situation. It may become kind of moot when you have nothing, because living within your means may be a forced necessity. They are living within their means and have no choice. The thing is we were talking about going touring full time, $3000 bicycles, buying insurance... all things those folks won't be thinking about. Thinking about those things implies that you have lots of options that they don't have.
And yet, here I am. Funny...now I am having someone tell me that I don't even exist at all right to my face. I have been thinking I was a ghost for a while now, but I guess this virtually confirms it! I officially don't exist at all, according to you. Thanks for clearing that up for me.


I made some suggestions about what I thought were good choices. I think that you could save yourself some money and be better off by following them.
You think it's better for someone to go off into a world, with no backup means, and carry around $5k in electronics and bicycle wealth, which stands out like a target to thieves and folks in poverty, and ride around through areas and countries where many people are on the run for their lives in places like South America, as a little white man going into a world of color, poverty, and inequality, where you are by default a target in many circles as it is based on wrong perceived notions based on your own skin color, and if anything goes wrong they can't replace a single thing...and your advice is better than what I am proposing, and you take zero risk if you are wrong? Seriously? And your logic is what exactly? Because you "think" so?


Taking care to protect your gear the risk would be low and the money saved would mitigate any eventual losses if they did occur.
I sincerely doubt you can take all the variables that I am facing into play, and give the best advice based on the factors I am dealing with because you have simply never walked in my shoes at all. Just because we share bicycles in common, doesn't mean the rest of life advice is correct, or even close to correct. You can't give advice to people who's shoes you never walked in and make statements like:


"I think that you could save yourself some money and be better off by following them."

That's not even logical since you have been blessed and never had to worry about economic insecurity in your older years to understand what factors are in play, why, or how to overcome them.


BTW, if you do get coverage please do your homework. Not only check the actual policy, but check on what kind of feed back they get from customers who filed claims. I know that when I was sailing a lot of other sailors had problems with their coverage especially when traveling to other parts of the world. Be careful about whether any plan you buy covers everywhere you plan to travel. Check on how they are about paying claims. Do they pay quickly, how badly do they depreciate the value of your stuff, or do they otherwise figure out reasons to stiff you? Will they jack up your premiums after a claim? Cancel your policy?

It doesn't really matter because they will lie to me anyway. I have had medical insurance for years and years. It has never helped. I have never had a successful surgery with it. I have had plenty of people lie to my face about every aspect of how all that works, and even though thousands and thousands of dollars I have been shorted to pay for coverage for years, and mandatory insurance no less, it has never been cost effective or effective at all. They would find something wrong with my coverage when or if it came time to file anyway. That's what happens when you are paranoid AND they are coming to get you. Investigating something and asking all the right questions ahead of time is not practical or real in my reality because it will always be the opposite of what I thought, planned, or hope anyway.


Insurance IMO is for things you can't afford to handle on your own or that would financially break you.
That is why I am asking.


Health issues are way more likely to do that, so I'd suggest you worry more about health coverage than bike and gear coverage.
I am fully covered. I have had to use it many times now. It has never worked once yet. Many failed surgeries.


Health coverage is the biggest scam God ever put in man's hearts or ever created literally. It's a pointless argument or supporting evidence to someone who hasn't had a successful surgery in years and watched a whole lot of people get paid of cutting my body up for nothing. Not to mention that I have spent very intimate time with doctor's and nurses personally, including living with them. LMAO...you should see what REALLY happens behind the scenes that isn't talked about. Doctor's and nurses get the best drugs


They only lock up the little brown and black ones selling them in the streets trying to survive...not the real and big dealers. The health care industry has private resort recovery centers to hide all those folks they don't want you to know about or see. They have "special" places for those people that even other drug addicts don't ever get to see or even know about. All that stuff is kept on the down low so you don't know how many doctors are truly getting yanked out of surgery all coked up out of their minds, or their nurses shooting themselves up while working with patient's drugs. They had good work ethics and morals at one time too, and when they screw up, they get rescued, covered up, and none of you know what is going on thinking the image of the industry is only full of hard working people with good morals and ethics. I guess the opiate epidemic in this country is not any indicator to how ridiculous most of the moral lessons I am listening to is not really true at all. But I am venturing to guess that you didn't have a mother that has had over 70 surgeries in her life that they kept locked up in a bedroom making an opiate addict out of, who I never got to really know or spend time with, because of how badly they pumped her full of those drugs and got paid cutting her body up too. She is a vegetable for the most part, sitting in a chair, barely can move at all physically, because of all those hard working people with morals and ethics needing to get paid off someone else's misfortune.


Also if you will be traveling internationally be sure what they offer wrt transporting you to a major city hospital and eventually home in the event of serious injury. This could be a huge deal if you will be way off the grid in some undeveloped country. Costs and logistics of getting transported and treated could be a real problem, especially if you are broke and have no coverage. It could be financial death or even actual death.

It's not a factor. I would be doing this so I don't end up sitting on a front porch, nursing home, or hospice one day seeing all the miserable people who tried riding out what little economic security they could chase that isn't real in poor folks worlds. At this point, I would rather die that way than sitting in some nursing home one day, bitter, and more miserable that I didn't do this instead. Most people would say focusing on the nursing home one day is the best thing. After spending years volunteering in them, I would rather die in some third world country not being able to get home because I ran out of funds or help, than put my hopes in the level of care those folks will truly give you when your family is "not" around. People actually have no idea how frightening the things they think are good or they put their stock into is really just completely false illusions and nothing based on any kind of real reality. Not to mention that you are going to die however God wants you to die anyway, and allegedly, that is not something you are going to escape anyway...although that hasn't been my personal experience to date. So if it be in some third world country, broke and busted riding my bike out the last days of my life...it's better than some shmoe that doesn't know me holding my hand while I am dying, pumping me full of drugs, telling me it's going to be OK while they are slowly starving and dehydrating me to death. They only give you the morphine in the very late stages...the rest of it is awful anyway. My guess is the only real difference will be whether they give me morphine in those late stages versus leaving me on the side of the road suffering in 3rd world vs. America. I have weighed the variables and risks...I would rather take the side of the road without the morphine in those late stages, then sit around on porches in low income housing, nursing homes, hospice waiting to die. I have spent years doing volunteer work in those settings. Your money will do wonders for you...until it runs out. There is this one high end senior community that I use to go to. Filled with widows and people that did well their entire lives. It's an absolutely beautiful place to live and one of the best I have ever seen. You should see what happens to those folks and the shock they live in when reality sets in, and they lived longer than they thought they would have in them at $5k-$10k a month chiseling away at their life savings. The most hysterical thing is to see how the folks that work at the facility "really" treat them once their money is gone. A life time of work and achievements means crap when you are out of dough, period. People are only as nice as your money will take you. Don't kid yourself. Those aren't folks I want to be around anyway, which is majority of the world, and why I want to get on my bicycle to go see it and get away from it.

Last edited by Bike Jedi; 08-12-19 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 08-12-19, 01:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post

Then I am making poor choices.
Based on the fact that you want to head off and live off your bicycle for an undefined time, then yes, you are making some poor choices. Not that the idea is intrinsically bad, but your preparation certainly is. Or rather, your lack of it.


Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post

Not only that, but most folks out there that are touring full time wouldn't agree with you either because there is a general philosophy or principle that echoes here too which is, "build right, done once." I disagree with you, and every component I have upgraded strongly disagrees with you to date also. And I haven't even been off stock wheels yet. I wouldn't personally tour around the world on a Walmart bike. I would rather stay home.

@staehpj1 has vastly more experience than you. You're welcome to weigh his advice and decide to accept or reject it, but to dismiss it so rudely, is well, frankly, unchristian, not to mention rude. Given his experience it's also rather foolish.


Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post

And yet, here I am. Funny...now I am having someone tell me that I don't even exist at all right to my face. I have been thinking I was a ghost for a while now, but I guess this virtually confirms it! I officially don't exist at all, according to you. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Nobody has said that.

Some have pointed out that they are ignoring you, but that's because you're arguing with everybody, post ramblings and bring religion into a totally unsuitable subject. It's not the same thing at all. Your interpretation of strangers' communication with you does not bode well for your explorations.


But, hey, see how far you get on the road with that attitude.


Your biggest challenge (from an insurance perspective) will be getting adequate coverage without a home address.


Just so you know, I'll be placing you on ignore now too. I won't be able to read your posts on this or any other thread.


What you are planning has the possibility to be a wonderful experience, but also holds the possibility of being a disaster in many ways.


People have taken time out to try to point you in the right direction. Rather than point out all the ways they are wrong, I suggest you try look for the ways they might be right. At the end of the day it's your "tour".
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Old 08-12-19, 01:46 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by HobbesOnTour View Post
But, hey, see how far you get on the road with that attitude.
In the off chance that this is not a total troll, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe even a good old fashion smack down after copping the wrong attitude with the wrong person on the wrong day.

In my best Yoda voice: The drama is strong in this one.
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Old 08-12-19, 01:54 PM
  #33  
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No matter how much we hope a change will cure the ugliness of our current situation - if that ugliness exists in our own minds we will take it into any new endeavour we seek.

Staehpj, sorry you had to receive that load of bs for your efforts.
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Old 08-12-19, 02:08 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post
....After doing the homework on it for two years, I strongly disagree.....
one may have memorized everything, but yet have learned little in the process.
pack up your bike. ride and camp for a few days, a week. gain experience. learn something.

“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.”
“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
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Old 08-12-19, 02:10 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by HobbesOnTour View Post
@staehpj1 has vastly more experience than you. You're welcome to weigh his advice and decide to accept or reject it,

Obviously not without rebuttle.


But to dismiss it so rudely,
Rude is subjective to the receiver. Changing your delivery to accommodate that receiver is not being true to yourself or anyone else for that matter. It leads to a lot of false information and relationships built on false foundations.


is well, frankly, unchristian, not to mention rude.
1) I didn't claim a faith or need to be classified as such by anyone, or have expectations put on me to act accordingly. Personally, I never really met a Christian acting like a Christian, so I wouldn't know what your own reference is there. I also sincerely doubt that you know scripture to the levels that I do or have had any similar experiences around any of it to confirm one way or another. So to judge me based on what you perceive how someone else should be acting to "your" definition of Christian behavior is a bit hypocritical all in the same breath. As for rude, you can't possibly exist, ask questions, and share ideas amongst such a sea of alleged personalities, and not step on some toes in the process of doing that. I actually don't care or worry about that. What I worry about is the weaker one's that can't think for themselves to jump on such witch hunt bandwagon thinking. That's how some of the most awful evil in the world started...because someone else deems someone else "unworthy" or "unfit" to participate because they won't follow the culture, the norm, or the rules. I am not much of a fan of "popular" opinion, which the majority of people slave themselves to.


Given his experience it's also rather foolish.
Read between the lines...it was putting a spin on things, and getting the receiver to think outside the box. Just in the same way I am being spoken down to for lack of experience, I am speaking to others in contrast. I don't rule out anyone's experience completely, and take what I can from it and leave the rest behind. I actually dissect others experience at a much deeper level anyway, and often reverse engineer the person's personality based on their experiences. There is some truth in there if you know what to look for, but often you first have to peel the layers of ideology, image, personality, whatever off it first to get the truth of what is there. That can be a lot of work and exhausting. Especially when folks get their panties in a bunch because they don't like you being direct with them versus catering to the norm, social cues, or position of power they might have.


Some have pointed out that they are ignoring you
LOL...if you only knew...I am completely, 100%, absolutely, fine with that in every single regards. You actually have no idea how much of a favor that does for me. Because most of those folks don't live in a reality that is based on truth and would rather be "right" versus being correct. So much so, that they will come into a thread, say absolutely nothing other than, "I don't like you and I am going to purposely go out of my way to point this out, ignore you, and tell other's to do the same." Personally, that's play room, psychological, nonsense. The only person who really cares about that is the person doing it and thinking that gives them some type of power. There is nothing good that comes from that other than inciting violence, metaphorically speaking. Be the change you wish to see in the world. You don't walk down the block telling every person you don't agree with the nonsense of how much you are going to go out of your way to state such things to someone because they are looking in a store you don't agree with, belong to a religion you don't like, or any other reason. If you don't like it, simply walk away...without saying a single word. That's truly ignoring someone and having the upper hand. Making these statements is for ego or to be rude, nothing more. That's child playground stuff they even play out on the big world stages that leads to war, hate, violence, and teaching other's how to hate, ignore, build walls, not have compassion, whatever...


What's even more hysterical, is that it is done in a "final solution" state..."Here is what I think of you...and I am slamming the door on the conversation by muting you forever, so I win!"


Bravo. I am glad you are not longer available to tell me that I am wrong for my own experiences, what I think, or who I am. So much so, that you would choose to erase another human being out of existence, forever, if you were given the choice and power. I come from a family of people and men like that. I have been guilty of that myself. It's a terrible way to live for everyone around you.


I want to talk to people like that even less, and I certainly don't trust "any" advice that they are giving if it comes with an "holier than though" attitude or approach.


We have a limited space of words to work with. I won't agree with you, and obviously you won't help others that won't agree with you either. That has typically been my experience with the other humans in general.


but that's because you're arguing with everybody, post ramblings and bring religion into a totally unsuitable subject. It's not the same thing at all. Your interpretation of strangers' communication with you does not bode well for your explorations.
That is not true at all, and that is not why what you are suggesting is happening to me, but you can make it be about whatever you want to make it. But that is false.


But, hey, see how far you get on the road with that attitude.
I am getting pretty close to having full blown bike mechanic skills, all the equipment I need to go off and tackle the world, and have a bike up on a rack that can compete with the best of them, not to mention that I actually do know what I am talking about more than I am given credit for simply because I am new or haven't done exactly what other's are doing. What I do know is how much of a nightmare it is to find dependable, reliable, accurate information for "my needs," and not what others did, doing, or going to do.

Sorry I don't fit in the box of touring or people enough for you to not banish me into silence forever. Maybe that's why the bicycle industry doesn't have enough bikes in kids hands and spends majority of their time and focus on ego's, pride, and image instead. But we couldn't have that conversation or debate because you either are not a man of your word and will come back to get "another" final word in, or you just don't have patience, kindness, or practice on such matters.

And just an FYI...I am actually getting a pretty phenomenal bike rider and have gotten to where I am without a single stitch of support, help, and often adversity every step of the way. So based on what you are saying, I will be just fine in another year from now too. Nobody has helped me to this point and I am not looking for help. Just the knowledge. Once I have that, then I don't need to ask questions anymore and don't have to go through this just to have knowledge about bicycles. It's the problem with guardians of the crypts.

I simply love that you called out someone for Christian behavior (which other's have gone out of their way to make statements against and now you are being hypocritical on that issue to in your actions), in the same exact post as "condeming" someone to not worth ever speaking to or listening to again. That's hysterical beyond measure, but I doubt anyone would stand up for that hypocrisy.


Since "you" are the one who brought up the Christian thing, let me remind you:


4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
So since you chose to "hate" me in your actions according to the definition of love provided, I am glad that you are no longer conversing with me, and sad that you chose to hate me instead of love me.

I mentioned earlier that I enjoy folks loving on me instead of hating me. Sorry you are not capable of being one of those folks, and further, want to blame other's for not being able to do that with me

Your biggest challenge (from an insurance perspective) will be getting adequate coverage without a home address.
No. Virtual mailboxes work just fine for such things when you have a policy based on where you and your stuff is versus having it tied to a residence. That only matters if you do the renter's insurance policy versus personal protection.


Just so you know, I'll be placing you on ignore now too. I won't be able to read your posts on this or any other thread.
Thanks for stopping by and having final word then I guess.

What you are planning has the possibility to be a wonderful experience, but also holds the possibility of being a disaster in many ways.
So I am told...

26See, today I am setting before you a blessing and a curse— 27a blessing if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you today, 28but a curse if you disobey the commandments of the LORD your God and turn aside from the path I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.
But man's opinion on the matter really means nothing to me when you have been shown the blip in the matrix. Your fears or concerns are not what bothers me or concerns me ultimately if you really want to know the truth Hobbes.

People have taken time out to try to point you in the right direction.
Arguable. There are more threads that went up without an real answer in them to my needs than clear direction. I would know since I am the one with the confusion still on those answers. Again, my experience is people don't like honesty, even when it comes to what is happening to you on the inside.

Rather than point out all the ways they are wrong, I suggest you try look for the ways they might be right. At the end of the day it's your "tour".
Cool. People pleasing are not one of them. I have zero plans on that being the way my bicycle tour goes or the help that I get along the way, if any at all. I am planning for ZERO help. Anything above that is a blessing. Can't be disappointed that way.

So far with you, it's zero help since you silenced me.

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Old 08-12-19, 02:55 PM
  #36  
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