OneIsAllYouNeed

I'm building a new racing wheelset for a friend's Santana tandem. I'm not sure which model it is (probably not relevant). It's from ~2008 with a Reynolds carbon (probably Ouzo Pro Tandem) fork with road caliper, steel frame, rear disc brake with 10" rotor.

I can't find a whole lot of details on the available rear hubs for Santanas. I'm curious if anyone has reworked other hubs to make them fit a Santana (I recently replaced the axle on a Shimano SLX hub to fit my 145mm-spaced tandem -- the result is a more symmetric build than Shimano's FH08). I'm assuming that the drum brake versions are compatible with some version of the DT Hugi disc screw on 6-bolt adapter. There are some clues on the web that Santana's disc spacing and hole pattern are not the same as ISO standard. It looks like there are these options currently for sale (and everything I know about them):

Hadley Racing tandem: 160mm spacing, threaded for drum brake, (32,40,48) hole options, ~$300-$350, 487 grams

Shimano (Santana-specific) tandem hub: 160mm spacing, threaded for drum brake, (40,48) hole options, ~$150-$295. Is this the same as a "normal" FH08, but with a longer axle?

Chris King ISO (disc): 160mm spacing, (32,36) hole options, 53mm PCD, 33.7mm center-to-flange, $460, 388 grams (alloy cassette body), 436 grams (stainless cassette body)

Chris King classic (non-disc): 160mm spacing, (28,32,36) hole options, 53mm PCD, 33.7mm center-to-flange, $460, 374 grams (alloy cassette body), 422 grams (stainless cassette body)

Phil Wood drum brake: 160mm spacing, (36,40,48) hole options, 54.7mm PCD, 30mm center-to-flange, $489-$675, 545 grams

Phil Wood disc brake: 160mm spacing, (36,40,48) hole options, 67/54.5mm PCD, ??mm center-to-flange, $529-$650, >625 grams

Shimano Sweet 16: only available as a wheelset

Spinergy TX2: only available as a wheelset

Topolino: no longer made

Links I've visited before here:
PRECISION TANDEMS BICYCLE PARTS CATALOG
Tandem-Specific Components
Tandem Components
Phil Wood & Co.
Tandems East Cassettes & Cassette Hubs
Tandem bicycle brakes & parts from Tandems East
House of Tandems Spring Texas Houston. Paketa Da Vinci - Santana - Co Motion - DraftMaster - BP MS150 - tandems -Tandem bike rentals
https://chrisking.com/products/333

waynesulak

I own a couple Santanas and like them but the rear spacing limits your race wheel options. You have found all I know of but will add that Hadley did a special hole drilling on a hub for me but that was quite a few years ago. Hadley does make a really nice hub you may give them a call and see if they would do your spoke count. May as well take advantage of that wide even spacing and possibly using fewer or lighter spokes.

Hadley is not much out marketing directly to the public. Last I checked they didn't have a web site and the phone number was really hard to obtain. Back then 909-946-6780 worked for me, not sure if it works now.

pdlpsher

You have missed the Rolf wheels. They have several options with a 160mm axle. I don't know about their durability so I can't say if they are good or bad.

Another wheel that is new and perhaps better than the Spinergy TX2 is the Spinergy ZLite. Santana has begun to spec. these on their tandems. They have 24/24 bladed spokes and the rim is 18mm internal and 23mm external width. I saw one in person recently.

Currently I have a set of the standard Hadley disk hub with a set of Hed Belgium plus in a 32 hole pattern. The Belgium has the same ERD as the stock Velocity Fusion rims. I reused the spokes and nipples and rebuilt the wheel with the Belgium rims. The Belgium rims have a 21mm internal and 25mm external width. The wide width is great.

Recently I sent an inquiry to Hed and asked them if they can build me a set of tandem wheels using the Jet 6 Plus rims in a 28 hole pattern if I sent them the hubs (CK 160mm disk). I have yet to receive a response from them. I get the impression that they will do it but only if they are rewarded handsomely (i.e. for a very high cost).

May I ask what type of rim and hold count do you have in mind? I've sent in inquiry to Wheelbuilder.com recently on a custom wheelset using CK disk hubs and Zipp 404 Firecrest in a 28-hole pattern. They responded and said it's acceptable for a tandem as long as thicker spokes are used. To my knowledge the CK tandem hub does come in a 28 hole version.

At this very moment I'm leaning on a set of Spinergy ZLites. I'm looking for a better and smoother ride. The updated bladed spokes and wider rim is worthy of an upgrade. I have never ridden a Spinergy wheel however the reviews I've read are positive.

OneIsAllYouNeed

Good feedback, thanks!

The riders in question have a few sets of Spinergy TX2 wheelsets on a different tandem of theirs. They really like them so far, but haven't had them terribly long.
This build is going to use 650b rims so they can run 38mm-42mm tires (currently they can't go wider than 28mm). At this time, I'm leaning toward Hed Belgium Plus MSW 28h or 32h in the front. Runners up include Velocity A23 and Velocity Cliffhanger. Switching to a disc brake fork is a possibility, but I recon that the aero drag of a non-aero rim is similar to a slightly-more-aero rim plus a giant disc.
The rear is likely going to be a ~36mm wide x ~30mm deep carbon rim, 32h. I'm trying to preserve the possibility of using a Wheelbuilder Aerojacket on the rear wheel. I think the options are ENVE M70Thirty HV and it's knockoffs, WTB Ci24, WTB KOM i29, American Classic 3834.

pdlpsher

The culprit to the tire clearance issue is likely the fork. The Santana VMax or ProV forks have the needed clearance for very wide tires. If they change out the front fork to a V brake type fork they can keep using 700c rims which I believe is superior to 650c rims due to the reduced rolling resistance and wider selection of tires. If they wish to run wider tires the Conti 4000 II in a 32mm along with the Hed Belgium Plus would be a good combination. Currently I have the Conti 4000 II in a 28mm in the rear and the tire balloons to 32mm wide on the Hed Belgium Plus rim. The 32mm tire is likely to be 35-36mm on the Hed rim.

waynesulak

We have a set of A23 rims, 650B compass tires. Rolls very well with 36 DT aerolights. 300 lb team and have 2800 miles on them untouched and true.

pdlpsher

If they decide to go the 650c route then a new fork will be need. Santana lists their VMax carbon/alloy as 650c compatible while the VMax full carbon is only 700c compatible. They could get the VMax carbon/alloy as that will allow them to run both 650c and 700c wheels.

OneIsAllYouNeed

Currently the bike clears 700c x 28mm tires front and rear without much extra room. The fork is slightly narrower than the rear triangle, but both accept a short reach brake caliper, which limits the tire height. We're going to install a long reach caliper on the fork for 650b rim brake. The 26" Vmax could be made to work. I think any fork with wider clearance than the Ouzo Pro will come with at least a half pound weight penalty. Hard to justify spending $400+ on a fork to make the bike heavier, less comfortable, and less aero.

djedgar

We have a rear Hadley 32 spoke hub that Santana set up with a Velocity Fusion rim for our Beyond while we waited for our Sweet-16 to be warranty replaced. We are a heavy team and the 32 spoke rims did not hold up. I spoke to Mike Hadley about having the hub reworked to a higher spoke count, but we never did it...found some older Santana wheels instead. The phone number previously given is the same one I used. I also had an email for them. PM me if you are interested in the email or a used hub. Our Hadley hub was used with a 10" disk brake.

ksisler

When I have needed a wheelset for a Santana, I checked around a lot, but found ones to fit the need on the Santana website and the price was very good.

DrMarkR

I have a complete wheel built for a Santana that I'd sell for $300. Chris King hub, 10" rotor, 9sp 11-25 cassette, built on H Plus Son rim. Excellent condition. Could be a donor hub for your wheel? drmarkr at the gmail place if interested.

Philly Tandem

Look how nicely organized your screwdriver drawer is in your tool chest. Mine looks nothing like that! :-)

ksisler

When I have a Santana in with work to be done (or one of my own bikes needing same), my go-to is to find the serial number on the bike and call their 800 number. I have found them to be very willing to provide details of the bike, identify if they have specific replacement parts in stock, provide paint codes or touchup paint ($10), advise on available decal sets for repaints, send replacement wheels at really good prices, etc. Just thinking out loud.... hope it helps.
/K

poopenfuhrer

dmarkr, is that a 36 or 32 hole wheel?

merlinextraligh

unless they've changed the construction of the Hed Jet Rims, I would not use them for a tandem wheel.

The Jet rims are (or at least were) aluminum rims, with a CF fairing, that is not structural.

A number of deep sectioned CF rims where the CF is structural to the rim would make a stronger tandem wheel.

LV2TNDM

In general, whenever you look at a wheel, observe the spoke pairs at the valve stem and at the seam (or any pair offset by 180 degrees). If the spokes are either both open (roughly parallel) or crossed, it's a 32. If one pair is open (usually the valve stem side) and the other crossed (at the seam), it's a 36. 40 spoke wheels are like 32. 28 are like 36's.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

poopenfuhrer

That is a cool trick. Thanks.

ksisler

Deleted, duplicate post