countalmaviva 

So, I'm waffling about this auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-PRO...99839#rpdCntId

Here's what I can share about it:

1. Seller is a bike shop local to me. He told me that the bike has been hanging in his shop for "at least 15 years." He has sold several bikes to the original and only owner, and, in his opinion, the owner cares for his bikes well. No large mileage and no crashes. I have had a few other interactions with the seller, and all have been straightforward and honest.
2. Originally spec'd parts would have been mostly Shimano 600 EX, and this bike appears to have Dura-Ace EX 7200 throughout, with the exception of the front hub (Campy). This includes the Nitto-made stem with hidden clamp and the Dyna Drive crank and pedals and even the headset. The photos that the seller has posted are very good quality, and from what I can tell, the parts are dirty but fairly unscratched.
3. Decals and paint in good condition.
4. Non-original wheelset.
5. BB appears to be modern cartridge type.

My intention is for this bike to be my primary rig for fast, three-season riding. I'll likely upgrade the drivetrain but save most of the parts in case I want to restore later. There are a few exceptions, however. To defray the cost of this purchase, I'd likely consider selling the stem, crank, and pedals. I'd have to swap them anyway for this frame to be a proper fit. The frame is actually my exact preferred size, but because of the Dyna Drive experiment, Miyata apparently decided to make this frame, which is 58 cm c-t, their largest for that model year. I imagine the only way a 58 cm frame fits tall people is with Dyna Drive (which, thanks to this forum, I learned puts the pedal platform lower), a 175 mm crank, and the 120 mm stem.

I have the exact same stem in 8 cm, and, with my regular 170 mm crank, I expect this bike will fit me perfectly. I plan to visit the seller in person on Friday to confirm this.

Anyway, I have a feeling the knowledgeable folks here will say that $900 is too much for this. However, considering I may make $200 on the sale of some parts, that brings it down to $700. Hmm....

What say ye? And THANK YOU for your input. Since becoming active again a few weeks ago, I'm just amazed at the knowledge that I read in this forum!

Miele Man

I hope that the crankset wasn't wrecked by having a bottom bracket with the wrong taper used on it. It's an interesting mix of Dura Ace AX and Dura Ace EX components.

You can use a crankset and pedals that'd give the same effective length that the Dyna Drive one has. How's the market for used parts? I figure that any bike is worth only what the buyer is willing to pay for it.

You're planning to part out the stem, crankset and pedals right away and the rest of the drivetrain later. Maybe you'd be better off looking for a frame that fits you rather than a complete bike with lots of parts you don't want.

Cheers

wrk101

It has those obscure, unique and incompatible EX style shifter mounts. So be prepared depending on your plans.

himespau 

This was my thought as well. At this point, just keep looking for a bare frameset and save yourself some money not buying stuff you don't need.

countalmaviva 

Whoa, I didn't know anything about this. Thank you for the post. I'm now reading the (many) related threads....

Miele Man

Oops! Yeah, I forgot that those old Shimano shifters used an M4.5mm bolt not an M5 bolt. Plus the backing plate and braze-on mount is different and the mount will NOT accept a Campagnolo or Suntour downtube shifter.

Cheers

zukahn1 

Really nice bike yet if your intention is to upgrade change the components it may not be a good deal. As said not everything will be compatiable and you will likely be paying a premium for the DX and AX DA components that you won't be using.

countalmaviva 

Miele Man, I'm assuming that a wrecked crankset would rock or "creak" on the spindle if the taper is incorrect? I believe this is what I did on a mountain bike in my younger, ignorant years. After weeks of making a creaking noise, the crank just came right off while pedaling! Fortunately, the trail was flat...

Miele Man

It might appear to be tight but come loose quickly when riding it if the spindle has t he wrong taper.

Cheers

trailangel

Too much money for that frame, and that crank and pedals IMO is worthless.
$300 would be more like it.

Miele Man

Depends on what you like. I love my Dura Ace AX Dynadrive crankset and pedals.

I agree thatthe price is pretty high if all he's going to really use is the frame.

Cheers

countalmaviva 

Thanks to all for this discussion so far. I appreciate the variety of perspectives.

Considering the unusual parts and the shifter bosses, I think the seller has priced it fairly for a buyer who is a collector. However, it seems likely to me that there are more prospective buyers who simply love vintage bikes and would want this as a primary ride. From that perspective, these unusual features may be a negative rather than positive if the prospective buyer is, like me, interested in preserving (most of) the vintage parts and putting mileage on an upgraded drivetrain. This is something I've often done with previous frames....

Anyway, I plan to see this in person tomorrow, and if I like the frame, perhaps these factors will give me negotiating room. I'm surprised nobody has commented on the fact that the seller is including shipping in the list price. Based on shipping to CA, that's at least a $100 value, yes?

wrk101

Yep, buying in person saves seller shipping, PayPal and Ebay fees. All of that combined is in the $200 to $250 range. So I would expect a similar discount. Even if he passes on all of the savings, he still gets something for passing it through, mainly that selling on Ebay is fraught with buyer wins ALL complaints, he has to pack it, etc.

I think bike is definitely OVERPRICED given the recent declines in the vintage bike market. If you are in love with the bike, and the seller passes through ALL the savings, then it is in the realistic level.

countalmaviva 

Thanks, Thrifty Bill. I had a convo offline with another BF member last evening, and he cited declines in the used market, too. I wasn't really aware of that factor. And you make a good point regarding the savings on PayPal and eBay fees. It's been a while since I sold a bike on eBay, so I had forgotten about that, too...

countalmaviva 

Thanks to all who chimed in here.

Turns out the bike shop owner does not own the bike. Rather, he's selling it as a favor to a long time customer. He says he has some negotiation room, so I offered him $500, and he shared that he already had a higher offer from "a guy in Massachusetts who buys and restores Miyatas." I won't share what the offer is, since this is not my sale, but, if you're out there, Massachusetts buyer, I'd be happy to share my thoughts on the bike, since I just saw it in person and rode it around the block a few times. Feel free to PM me.

In short, this bike is my preferred fit, but, since I plan to ride the frame a lot, I want to be able to easily upgrade the drivetrain and shifters. Since that's not the case with this bike, I had to pass. Too bad -- the paint is in good condition, and the ride is what I was expecting from a Miyata: firm and responsive, which I also like.

Special thanks to user ddeand for the PM and convo. I love this community!

wrk101

At the $500 price point or less, you should be able to find some really nice Japanese bikes, ones that would be easier to upgrade. Think late 1980s, some of the Schwinnasonics among others (big fan of the made by Panasonic Prologues and Pelotons).

Insidious C. 

Miyata-built high end Univegas of the 80s are generally less money for nearly identical bike.

greatscott

$700 is too high for a vintage bike that is not factory original.