SortaGrey

Interesting concept.. albeit not for my weight class... being just north of 260. 24 spokes (18DS--9NDS) would make me nervous.. even riding to the mailbox. Who knows.. maybe someday for an 'speriment.

36 hole build.. anyone ever try just lacing 3 crow's feet on the NDS? Or just forgetting the other 9 NDS?

Idea of course with triplet is raising NDS tensions. Not plugging.. endorsing the triplet concept here. Find often one learns by asking.... wheel building is a complex subject with much to learn.

AEO

there's crow's foot and then there is triplet.
triplet is only possible with the following combinations
32h hub, 24h rim (16+8)
48h hub, 36h rim (24+12)

You will need a spoke length calculator that will accept decimals.
Drive side will require 3.13x or 2.38x using 36h as the template.
Non drive side will require 1x or 2x using 24h as the template.

For example:
ERD: 589mm
width from center to left flange: 38.4mm
width from center to right flange: 20.8mm
Flange diameter: 45mm
spoke hole diameter: 2.5mm

Drive side, 24 spokes required
Spoke count: 36
Cross number: 2.38x = 279mm
-or-
Cross number: 3.13x = 284mm

Non drive side, 12 spokes required
Spoke count: 24
Cross number: 1x = 276mm
-or-
Cross number: 2x = 285mm


btw, I'm not sure if 3.13x will work properly, because I've only done 2.38x on a 24h triplet wheel.

dabac

I've been thinking of building a 30 spoke wheel out of 36H parts. Drive side gets a standard 3X lacing, NDS gets a 2-out-of-3 2X lace, basically like half of a 24 spoke wheel. Rim would be a 36H, with 5-out-of-6 spoke holes being used.
If I use a rim that's available in both 36H and, say 28H, I'd think it'd be able to hold up despite not all the spoke holes being used.
It wouldn't get quite the degree of tension equalization as a triplet lace, but a good part of it.

fietsbob

Aaron's Bike shop in Seattle showed them drilling 16 more holes
in a Rohloff's hub flanges.

the 2 cross pattern remains , the others are radials.. Big diameter hub flange helps.
Used on Big Dummy cargo builds, I suppose 48 hole rim. like Salsa Gordo

Seen 36 hole bird's foot lacing, groups of 3, done on whole hub, not just one side..

have a good time..

davidad

Spoked wheels have been around for 4 or 5 thousand years. Bike wheels have been here for about 195 years. The comventional 36 hole wheel has proven to be the most reliable over the last 30 years or so.
Most of the other patterns and materials have been market driven.

SortaGrey

Very true.. no question. Buttt.. it's winter....call it diversionary.. recreational thinking.

ExPres.. what kind of tire did you mount on that square wheel.... [forgot to add earlier.. then there.. tried that.. ]

Bianchigirll 

Crows Foot. this is the front but the rear is the same, both sides. I think the pattern would look much better with HF hubs

Soil_Sampler

https://wheelworks.co.nz/triplet-lacing-pattern/

dabac

I've seen the same extrusions in both 36H and 28H drillings. At 36H there's a 10 deg span between spoke holes, at 28H it's 13 deg, give or take. Losing the occasional spoke from the 36H would bring the span to 20 deg, basically a 50% increase from the apparently tolerable 28H span.
I'm willing to take a gamble on that, specially considering the number of 36H wheels with that I've seen in extended use with one spoke missing.
If I ever get around to building one, I'll put a post in about how it went.

SortaGrey

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ligerow...7605749516696/

Link above isn't showing a pic for me.

Soil_Sampler

SortaGrey

Ooops.. meant the one in the quote box. Should have made that clear... yet now we have that image out front.

AEO

here is my wheel that I built myself

mrrabbit 

Looks like I'll have to make another tab for:

MODIFIED-TRIPLET-CHART

32 (16/8) in 24
48 (24/12) in 36

=8-)

AEO: Can you send me a larger picture...and interlacing details?

=8-)

Soil_Sampler

link.

https://wheelworks.co.nz/tune-kinlin-...et-wheelbuild/

SortaGrey

Figuring lacing for a 24-12 36 hole 700c triplet.

Every 4th hole of NDS.. 2x lacing.. no problem.

DS lacing.. looking at the value hole from the DS.. the right side hole next to the valve hole is DS drilled. The sequence then is, again from the DS:
NDS 2x spoke.. leading spoke... value hole... trailing spoke. NDS 2x spoke ...etc.

3.13 looks very close per figuring DS length.

AEO

I don't think I can take any better pictures.




I laced it heads in on the NDS because I wanted more flange contact.
oh, and I might have done heads in, because it is easier to lace up.

the NDS spoke length is pretty much spot on, because it uses a regular cross.
the drive side seems like it ends up spot on or 1mm short.

and I think it is a bit of a guess work trying to line up the hub label to the rim valve eyelet
I did it with drive side spoke pair at the joint (6'o) and valve eyelet (12'o), but I don't think it is necessary to leave the gap at the valve eyelet, because it's quite easy to access from the NDS due to the spoke count.

mrrabbit 

Your pictures are perfect...provide the details I need. Allows me to state exactly what the chart is applicable to and how to lace...

Gonna be a couple weeks - accounting and Vietnamese New Years are really tying me up right now...

Thanks!

=8-)

ultraman6970

I do have a question tho, wasn't the same just go tangential instead of 1x cross?? U get shorter spokes and I imagine the wheel gets stronger than with 1x maybe??

ultraman6970

Next question, triplet should be used with super strong rims, right???

AEO

I think, on a 16h wheel, you can only use 1x or radial. it is the equivalent length for 2x on a 32h wheel. There is no way to lace it 3x, because the holes used would overlap.
1x, or tangent, is stronger than radial when drive torque is experienced.
lateral stiffness is not really necessary on the NDS rear wheel, so it's not necessarily good to use radial NDS.


those are kinlin XR-270 rims, but I never really considered rim strength when buying the parts.

SortaGrey

Consider the opposite scenario.. the NDS tension being much less than the DS. The wheel as a unit is less supported then.... with the triplet spoke tension is nearly equalized. IMO a superior wheel results via triplet.
If anything seems the inherently weaker designed rim would benefit from equalized tensions.

SortaGrey

36 hole 24-12 spoke triplet laced.. NDS tension is 85% of DS tension. 122 mm spaced
7 speed rear.

mrrabbit 

Of particular interest to me is the version you just showed, the 48 in 36 (24/12 versions). Seems to be a workable solution to the low tension NDS problem without sacraficing spoke count or getting into a circular paradigm of frustration.

Bring the tension up a little WHILE keeping spoke count at 36 holes or higher. I'm going to try to find a 48 hole Maillard 126mm rear someday (they have an awful NDS offset of 40mm - probably the worst out there) and give it a whirl and see how it turns out.

But first I gotta come up with the added TAB (MODIFIED-TRIPLET) for the spreadsheet. Still busy as heck...

Question for everyone:

Found a Bontrager aero 700 x 20c rim in black with just the "Bontrager" label twice and the usual three stripes. Has no model labels - nor did it ever have any. Anyone know what model this was?


Spokechart has had a lot of updating...

https://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

=8-)

SortaGrey

I'll be riding this wheel come spring. I built the most dished wheel I could use.. just to see how this works out. If one spaced that same rear at 126 mm.. you'd easily get equal tension side to side.. possibly a little more NDS.

Lacing. Note my NDS spokes are between the DS formed tiangles. That is the only route and still maintain valve hole clearance... lacing 3x-2x NDS. I did consider radial NDS.. yet this is yesterday's BMX freewheel hub. But these bearing are very smooth.. nice to check out this concept. I might experiment with a radial laced NDS later.