Would you say something? (bike path racers)
08-15-18, 05:03 AM
#51
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Those "light rules" you've just pooh-poohed? Every single path I've been on around here includes something like "bicyclists must yield to pedestrians" . That's very clear as to whether the pedestrian use of the path is prioritized over your time trial. Find a lightly used path or a nice stretch of road and quit whining. It's no one else's fault if you're too lazy to go to the courses that are appropriate for "training".
08-15-18, 07:03 AM
#52
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Who decides what the paths are for and how they should be used . with nothing but light rules posted on signs ??the bf forums . ???
So its ok for people to block a path , be unsafe dangle their dog 50 feet all over the place. take up both lanes in both directions , not pay attention to anyone or anything , swerve in and out of the lanes , let the kids play on the path like its a play ground , roller blade in the center line , stop and talk in the lane back turned , , BUT I CANT GO FAST IN A STRAIT LINE
...
If people will not respect the path and be safe , they shouldn't expect cyclist to be safe for them ,who has the right to have the right of way ??!!??
So its ok for people to block a path , be unsafe dangle their dog 50 feet all over the place. take up both lanes in both directions , not pay attention to anyone or anything , swerve in and out of the lanes , let the kids play on the path like its a play ground , roller blade in the center line , stop and talk in the lane back turned , , BUT I CANT GO FAST IN A STRAIT LINE
...
If people will not respect the path and be safe , they shouldn't expect cyclist to be safe for them ,who has the right to have the right of way ??!!??
You're getting harassed by cars on the road? Imagine what the mom with a two and four year old feels like when your paceline comes around the narrow blind corner three wide at 22MPH. Heck, imagine how pissed I get when the local MTB group does the same thing and shoves me off the trail, because theyre all staring at their front tire and no one notices me until I'm halfway by them going the opposite direction.
You're getting pulled over by police on the road? Ride according to the law, the way any vehicle must operate.
You can't go fast on a straight line on a trail? Going fast in a straight line is not the issue. Operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner is. EVERY jurisdiction I have ever lived in requires the operator of a vehicle to operate it in a manner safe for the conditions present. Yes, pedestrians have the ROW on every trail I have ever been on, yes the onus is on you.
I personally suggest learning the laws of the road, and training on it if you want to go fast.
08-15-18, 07:40 AM
#53
Old and in the way.
To the poster who has a hard time finding places to train: maybe you need to move? Out here on the west coast most of the places I cycle if your moving down the road over 20mph most of the time you are fine. I did get a ticket on the road once but it was legit (45 in a 35) I was speeding. And yes a very steep long down hill with a 15K tail wind. But lots of places I have lived no matter what you do on the street cars seem to hate you.
That being saod said there are a couple rules of the road that are universal, they work for cars, boats and even planes. One is the overtaking must do so in a way that does not endanger the over taken. The other is that you should not operate a vehicle beyond your ability to control it in a stop. Going high speed around a tight corner is a choice that will eventually end in disaster.
More broadly I would encourage you to follow what I consider the most basic rule of the road: don’t kill anyone. I do this by focusing not on my rights to use the road, but on my responsibility to use it safely that doesn’t mean I am not fast when and where I can be but it does mean the only person I am endangering when I do it is me.
That being saod said there are a couple rules of the road that are universal, they work for cars, boats and even planes. One is the overtaking must do so in a way that does not endanger the over taken. The other is that you should not operate a vehicle beyond your ability to control it in a stop. Going high speed around a tight corner is a choice that will eventually end in disaster.
More broadly I would encourage you to follow what I consider the most basic rule of the road: don’t kill anyone. I do this by focusing not on my rights to use the road, but on my responsibility to use it safely that doesn’t mean I am not fast when and where I can be but it does mean the only person I am endangering when I do it is me.
08-15-18, 08:00 AM
#54
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08-15-18, 09:11 AM
#56
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^^^^This!
I know there are a few bike-only paths in the USA, but has anybody ever seen a MUP that didn't have a rule requiring bicyclists to yield to pedestrians? Last time I checked, "yield" doesn't mean "maintain high speed no matter what".
08-15-18, 09:31 AM
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That poster is posting from Providence. The funniest thing about his nonsense is if you get a little outside of Providence, the bike paths are first rate, and he should be able to safely ride like a bat out of hell on them if he picks the right time of day. I rode over 20 mph for about 15 miles straight once, stopping only at crossings and only slowing at curves going from Providence to close to the Mass. border. Pedestrians by law are required to walk on the side of the path facing bike traffic, and the system worked so well for me that day I started a thread about it on A&S. I was told by the RI people that that system doesn't work as well during times when the path is crowded, but if I lived in RI, I'd be out there at 6 a.m. on weekends riding those paths as fast as I can. They're fast, wide, and quite beautiful.
Last edited by livedarklions; 08-15-18 at 09:32 AM. Reason: typo
08-15-18, 10:14 AM
#58
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Anyone on a vehicle, though, I'm sure still has to abide by the general requirement (for vehicles) to be operated at a speed that's safe for conditions.
As for pedestrians, there are no such legal requirements for walking straight or wayward or with a short/long leash on the kids or pups, etc. So, there's an additional factor I'd think every 'vehicle' person (cyclist, skateboarder, etc) would have to consider.
True, if someone cannot reasonably use public resources, they shouldn't use them, or be out there on such paths. But, like that's gonna happen anytime soon. Comes down to the moral compass people learn, and whether they're willing to continue living life accordingly.
I, too, wish more folks would have a clue, when out and about with others. Multi-use means just that. And it should be in the forefront of everyone's mind who attempts to be out there while others are as well.
08-15-18, 02:14 PM
#59
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Not a real fan of bike paths. I've had trouble with cars and road hazards on the road, but some bike paths make me claustrophobic. This the coastal path north of Ventura, CA, parallel to 101. It is 5 or 6 miles long, pretty straight with gentle curves. On our club rides, I think I've seen more crashes along here then on the public roads we ride. We used to ride on the shoulder of 101 (right side of picture). It was legal, not sure now with the path. Even with 70 mph traffic just off your elbow, I was OK with it. The guard rails on this path are so close, and rough looking, they remind me of a cheese grater, skin grator? 2 way traffic is an adventure, especially in a group.
08-15-18, 04:28 PM
#60
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who makes the rules? The (generally government) body in charge of the trail.
You're getting harassed by cars on the road? Imagine what the mom with a two and four year old feels like when your paceline comes around the narrow blind corner three wide at 22mph. Heck, imagine how pissed i get when the local mtb group does the same thing and shoves me off the trail, because theyre all staring at their front tire and no one notices me until i'm halfway by them going the opposite direction.
You're getting pulled over by police on the road? Ride according to the law, the way any vehicle must operate.
You can't go fast on a straight line on a trail? Going fast in a straight line is not the issue. Operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner is. Every jurisdiction i have ever lived in requires the operator of a vehicle to operate it in a manner safe for the conditions present. Yes, pedestrians have the row on every trail i have ever been on, yes the onus is on you.
I personally suggest learning the laws of the road, and training on it if you want to go fast.
You're getting harassed by cars on the road? Imagine what the mom with a two and four year old feels like when your paceline comes around the narrow blind corner three wide at 22mph. Heck, imagine how pissed i get when the local mtb group does the same thing and shoves me off the trail, because theyre all staring at their front tire and no one notices me until i'm halfway by them going the opposite direction.
You're getting pulled over by police on the road? Ride according to the law, the way any vehicle must operate.
You can't go fast on a straight line on a trail? Going fast in a straight line is not the issue. Operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner is. Every jurisdiction i have ever lived in requires the operator of a vehicle to operate it in a manner safe for the conditions present. Yes, pedestrians have the row on every trail i have ever been on, yes the onus is on you.
I personally suggest learning the laws of the road, and training on it if you want to go fast.
08-16-18, 04:31 AM
#62
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Not a real fan of bike paths. I've had trouble with cars and road hazards on the road, but some bike paths make me claustrophobic. This the coastal path north of Ventura, CA, parallel to 101. It is 5 or 6 miles long, pretty straight with gentle curves. On our club rides, I think I've seen more crashes along here then on the public roads we ride. We used to ride on the shoulder of 101 (right side of picture). It was legal, not sure now with the path. Even with 70 mph traffic just off your elbow, I was OK with it. The guard rails on this path are so close, and rough looking, they remind me of a cheese grater, skin grator? 2 way traffic is an adventure, especially in a group.
I'm surprised it was ever legal to ride on the 101.
08-16-18, 08:30 AM
#63
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There are still several stretches of coast highway where it it legal to ride, both 1 and 101. This path does see a fair share of foot traffic. There is a parking lot at each end where walkers and joggers come from, even people hauling fishing gear back and forth. The beaches along here are usually uncrowded, and The Cliff House, small hotel and great little restuarant is also mid way along the path, which generates some traffic, too. You can just see the freeway guard rail thru the fence on the right. That's why the fencing is so substantial, and also built to survive the sea air environment. It's a beautiful path, just a little narrow for me.
Last edited by Slightspeed; 08-16-18 at 08:34 AM.
08-16-18, 08:49 AM
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There are still several stretches of coast highway where it it legal to ride, both 1 and 101. This path does see a fair share of foot traffic. There is a parking lot at each end where walkers and joggers come from, even people hauling fishing gear back and forth. The beaches along here are usually uncrowded, and The Cliff House, small hotel and great little restuarant is also mid way along the path, which generates some traffic, too. You can just see the freeway guard rail thru the fence on the right. That's why the fencing is so substantial, and also built to survive the sea air environment. It's a beautiful path, just a little narrow for me.
I would ride that path solo without a problem, but I wouldn't pass anyone with a lot of speed. Not much margin for error. It strikes me that the fence on the left side may have been a mistake, gives it that claustrophobic feel that probably leads to rider mistakes just out of nervousness, plus it looks like it spoils a great view..
08-16-18, 01:33 PM
#65
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That poster is posting from Providence. The funniest thing about his nonsense is if you get a little outside of Providence, the bike paths are first rate, and he should be able to safely ride like a bat out of hell on them if he picks the right time of day. I rode over 20 mph for about 15 miles straight once, stopping only at crossings and only slowing at curves going from Providence to close to the Mass. border. Pedestrians by law are required to walk on the side of the path facing bike traffic, and the system worked so well for me that day I started a thread about it on A&S. I was told by the RI people that that system doesn't work as well during times when the path is crowded, but if I lived in RI, I'd be out there at 6 a.m. on weekends riding those paths as fast as I can. They're fast, wide, and quite beautiful.
08-16-18, 01:37 PM
#66
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This topic gets me all triggered.
where can a cyclist train ??
If we train on roads we can be harassed by drivers , pulled over by cops just for going down the road .
if we train on bike paths we are too fast or dangerous . even though on a bike path bikes are primary traffic and most pedestrians break the rules of path, block the path , take up both lanes . let their kids use the path as a playground . use the path as a dog park with 80 foot leashes . cause cyclist to move and weave rather than make way .
I train on all kinds of paths , but i see some of the dumbest people on bike paths . im literally going strait in a line , i have never got in anyones way but at least once a run i have to dodge a dummy breaking the rules of the path .
there have been so many people ive almost collided with because they have no clue what they are doing and they dont respect the rules.
Ive gone fast ive gone slow but no matter what i come across a person not respecting the lanes wondering around like a zombie , doing what ever they feel .
If every one has the right to use the path does that give them the right to do what ever they want . does that mean i cant ride hard and push myself .
where can a cyclist train ??
If we train on roads we can be harassed by drivers , pulled over by cops just for going down the road .
if we train on bike paths we are too fast or dangerous . even though on a bike path bikes are primary traffic and most pedestrians break the rules of path, block the path , take up both lanes . let their kids use the path as a playground . use the path as a dog park with 80 foot leashes . cause cyclist to move and weave rather than make way .
I train on all kinds of paths , but i see some of the dumbest people on bike paths . im literally going strait in a line , i have never got in anyones way but at least once a run i have to dodge a dummy breaking the rules of the path .
there have been so many people ive almost collided with because they have no clue what they are doing and they dont respect the rules.
Ive gone fast ive gone slow but no matter what i come across a person not respecting the lanes wondering around like a zombie , doing what ever they feel .
If every one has the right to use the path does that give them the right to do what ever they want . does that mean i cant ride hard and push myself .
08-16-18, 02:17 PM
#67
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(BTW, Province Lands is the younger sibling to Boston Common. Second oldest common in the US. But if you are picturing something that is like Boston Common, absolutely nope. Pics from Yelp!)
Narrow, winding, brief sharp climbs and drops, sand, and low tunnels so narrow that you dismount and walk through them.
In spite of all that, there are several Strava segments there.
-mr.bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 08-16-18 at 02:29 PM.
08-16-18, 02:24 PM
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I'd look at this the other way. The fact that some people act inappropriately on a bike path does not make it okay for you to do the same.
08-16-18, 02:32 PM
#69
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Province Lands Trail was built in the 1960s and is a 10 mph speed limit.
(BTW, Province Lands is the younger sibling to Boston Common. Second oldest common in the US. But if you are picturing something that is like Boston Common, absolutely nope. Pics from Yelp!)
Narrow, winding, brief sharp climbs and drops, sand, and low tunnels so narrow that you dismount and walk through them.
In spite of all that, there are several Strava segments there.
-mr.bill
(BTW, Province Lands is the younger sibling to Boston Common. Second oldest common in the US. But if you are picturing something that is like Boston Common, absolutely nope. Pics from Yelp!)
Narrow, winding, brief sharp climbs and drops, sand, and low tunnels so narrow that you dismount and walk through them.
In spite of all that, there are several Strava segments there.
-mr.bill
Thanks! That's like prime BF trivia--name the MA bike path with a speed limit. I should have known one of you fellows would know of one.
I haven't gotten to ride Cape Cod yet, it's a bit of a hike from Nashua, and I figure on an overnight. I try to ride through all my trips without using the car at all.
08-18-18, 10:51 AM
#70
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I live very near the (man this site slows my computer down to nothing) Lake Wobegon Trail. Best riding surface I've ever encountered. I've witnessed 200# deer nearly take oncoming riders off their bicycles. One fellow skidded so hard I thought he'd blow a tire. I had a yearling pace me more than once. Cute until they dart right at you. People? They're reliable. They're a known presence on the path. Suicidal quadrupeds on the other hand?
My copper Crane bike bell matters more than I thought it would.
My copper Crane bike bell matters more than I thought it would.
08-18-18, 11:35 AM
#71
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the few vs the many
Please excuse me if this has been mentioned already, but the more I think of it the more I realize there's an obligation to say something to other cyclists.
If a speedy risk taker wrecks a pedestrian, it's likely they're risking cycling access as a whole, beyond theirs and the bystanders health.
If cycling is perceived as the issue, it's possible cycling could get banned.
As someone that's come from other "extreme" sports, I think it's easy to loose perspective on just how much access and leeway cycling is given. Some other sports (kiteboarding as an example) is still fighting for basic access to beaches so people can do the sport at all. I think it's easy to take road and trail/ path access for granted.
If cyclists aren't going to self enforce safety amongst our peers, we're just asking for a police person or lawmaker to do it for us.
I think someone should absolutely talk to this and any other cyclist putting others at risk. If for no other reason than to protect cycling as a whole.
If a speedy risk taker wrecks a pedestrian, it's likely they're risking cycling access as a whole, beyond theirs and the bystanders health.
If cycling is perceived as the issue, it's possible cycling could get banned.
As someone that's come from other "extreme" sports, I think it's easy to loose perspective on just how much access and leeway cycling is given. Some other sports (kiteboarding as an example) is still fighting for basic access to beaches so people can do the sport at all. I think it's easy to take road and trail/ path access for granted.
If cyclists aren't going to self enforce safety amongst our peers, we're just asking for a police person or lawmaker to do it for us.
I think someone should absolutely talk to this and any other cyclist putting others at risk. If for no other reason than to protect cycling as a whole.
08-20-18, 12:12 PM
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The cops down here sometimes, not often enough, do something about it. They get out on the marked 15 mph trail and use their radar guns. They'll stop an entire group of riders that are well above the limit. Once stopped, they give them several options. If they have a drivers license they can get a reckless driving ticket and ride on. If they do not have it, they can either sit in the grass on the side of the trail for 45 minutes (no, they are not allowed to use the benches) or they can get cuffed up and driven to the station. If they go to the station they will have the additional charge of the tow truck coming to get their bicycle. They all choose the sitting in the grass route.
08-20-18, 12:18 PM
#73
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Ya know, in any group of humans one will find some jerks. It pays not to hang out with jerks, lest you become one of 'em. Especially homicidal jerks.
08-20-18, 01:13 PM
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The cops down here sometimes, not often enough, do something about it. They get out on the marked 15 mph trail and use their radar guns. They'll stop an entire group of riders that are well above the limit. Once stopped, they give them several options. If they have a drivers license they can get a reckless driving ticket and ride on. If they do not have it, they can either sit in the grass on the side of the trail for 45 minutes (no, they are not allowed to use the benches) or they can get cuffed up and driven to the station. If they go to the station they will have the additional charge of the tow truck coming to get their bicycle. They all choose the sitting in the grass route.
