partyanimal

Hi, was posting about this in the Craigslist thread but thought I'd reach out to everyone for help IDing this bike I picked up today.
Found it on FB Marketplace and ended up getting it for $40. Guy said it was a Motobecane but doesn't have any decals or markings. Also looking closer, looks like someone repainted and tried to recreate the gold and red bars. Frame feels fairly light, got a few quirks, like where it wraps around the seat tube, peculiar (to me) stem. The wheels are two different sizes, at least the back is about 1/8" wider than the front. Front says Rigida - back doesn' t have any markings anywhere. Someone in the CL thread suggested possibly British but the seat post is a bit smaller than normal (french?).

Also, came with an old beat up Brooks saddle, any tips on salvaging these? Looks pretty dried out.

juvela

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Yes to Motobecane.

Looks to be the Grand Touring model from the early 1970's.

Appears 1974. Earlier models came with Huret gears and later models came through with alloy cotterless chainsets so that brackets it pretty clearly.

"An excellent buy: you done good!"

1974 catalogue page:



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partyanimal

Thanks, good info! The only thing different I see in this one is the way the seat stay goes up and around the seat post. Haven't seen those in other bikes.

juvela

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Thank you for this information!

OOPS! Big error on my part; that paint scheme threw me.

Note to self: "Look beyond the paint dummy!"

Looks like you have a Raleigh Gran Prix there.

Verily, I should think about a new pastime!

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unworthy1

Raleigh Gran Prix was my guess, too. (the paint scheme was a wicked red herring to divert to Motobecane) The Brooks Pro saddle is a huge upgrade even tho it needs some help, and i think the AVA stem (and perhaps FR handlebars) are not an upgrade, but others who know can opine if this stem is one to watch out for or "not a concern".The Japanese drivetrain gear (shifters, FD and RD definitely ARE an upgrade to the Simplex Delrin stuff that was original, and the crankset looks pristine.Not bad for $40!

juvela

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lug pattern is BOCAMA 80 series with nozzle cut II

fork crown is Vagner DP+

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serial AD96937 is puzzling

the first character - A - should indicate the specific factory location but according to the serial guide there is none which employs the letter A:

https://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html

the second character - D - indicates the month of manufacture, in this case April

the third character indicates the last digit of the year manufactered - 9
the only at all plausibles of which would be 1969 and 1979

the AVA stem & bar set mentioned above is OEM for 1969 which eliminates from consideration 1979

we are left with a Raleigh Gran Prix bicycle manufactured in April of 1969 at a location unknown

it would have departed "the barn" wearing the anniversary head emblem:





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partyanimal

Wow guys, nice work!
I'm already working on the Brooks saddle. Doing some research I see ones that were worse off than this brought back to life. Already applied a good amount of proofride yesterday until I can find something a little more suited to restoration. It's held it's shape well, the leather is just dried out. I was gonna try to figure out how old that is too. Just says Brooks Competition across the side with no metal Brooks stamp riveted on the back. Didn't get a good pic of it. Apparently there's a date stamp on the frame somewhere, I'll have to check it when i get home.

The cables are a bit rusty and could probably used changed (everything seems to move fine) but the shifters, derailuers and crankset all cleaned up really well.

JohnDThompson 

The wrapover seat stays and brazed-on rear brake cable hanger says "Raleigh Gran Prix" to me.

rhm

Maybe. If you put your hand on the right side of the saddle, at the widest point, and reach your fingers underneath the frame, your fingers should be touching the date code. Two digits and one letter. Not all saddles have them. Professionals have them less frequently than Champions.

unworthy1

2 details that seem "different": the headlugs don't have the 2 "horns" at the front like the green example juvela posted but seem to be a 'closed triangle', is this a clue to someone? Also headset lower cup is not the same style, either, tho the top HS might be original and the bottom cup replaced, hard to say. I'm no Raleigh Gran Prix expert but is there a chance the oddball serial number is because this is one of those made in Holland?

juvela

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The Gran Prix models manufactured in the Gazelle facility have the source code G (first character of serial). Examples produced there were only done in the 1973-74 time.

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Image of the anniversary emblem on the green cycle -

saved this from the internet solely due to it being a good image of this emblem

do not know what model of Raleigh it is from; no assertion of it being on a Gran Prix is intended

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unworthy1

Ah so I see, as I said I am NO Raleigh Gran Prix expert and now I have proved it! The headlugs on the OPs as well as the bottom HS cup do look pretty consistent with images of other GP examples from "the 70s" i can find via Google, so will cease making more half-baked comments on this one.

juvela

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lug/frame note -

was unable to identify the specific 80's series (not a date) feature cut on the head lugs as it is not illustrated in any of the materials i have

it is clearly an 80's series pattern

the frame's nozzle cut is termed by BOCAMA as /II (roman numeral)

on these older BOCAMA designs there were only two nozzle cuts: a smooth plain one which came to a single point and was designated as /I. and the more decorative/complex cut seen on the subject frame which is designated as /II.

frame's shell will of course be 71mm in width and of the 26TPI threading.

since bicycle came from the factory with a solid axle front hub it may have been one of the Sturmey Archer ones which have an OLD of 89mm rather than the more commonly encountered 100mm. new owner may find fork ends to be set at that width.

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partyanimal

Thanks again all. I'll admit, still learning a lot about this so don't know what all that means. Someone pointed out it maybe a 1969 and you said 80s correct?

I can take other pics for clarification.

Also, my Brooks saddle is stamped with an A77 on the frame. I assume it's a 1977 model.

juvela

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nopers

wrote right in the text of me message "not a date."

dunno what more could do.

older BOCAMA lug patterns such as those on the subject machine are designated by numbers. sometime during te 1960's the manufacturer changed this practice and as new designs were introduced they were given descriptive names instead.

the frame's lug pattern is one which is part of a series whose identification numbers are in the 80's but do not have the specific one for the pattern employed.

good to read you are moving forward with the bicycle; best wishes with it.

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ups

I have reinvigorated a Brooks in worse condition. If I can find a picture of it I will post it.

I would suggest a few coats of black shoe polish and Brooks Proofhide.

I used neatsfoot oil as described by Sheldon Brown. Basically create a tub out of aluminum foil and soak it for an hour. It reconditioned the leather well, but every time I rode it the oil would seep into my pants or shorts.

partyanimal

Thanks, as I said, attention to detail: not my strong suit.

juvela

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wheel tip -

because the machine is a 1969 model it came from the factory with both wheels solid axle.

from the images provided it appears that both wheels which are in there at present are solid axle as well.

should you wish to run a quick release hub on the front you may discover that the axle slots in the fork ends are too small to accept a hollow axle. they can be enlarged to accommodate a larger diameter axle by hand with a file or with the use of a grinding burr in a Dremel type tool.

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partyanimal

Found the exact saddle on a website. If I can refurb, I think it will be $40 very well spent.



NOS Brooks Competition Saddle: 1977, Pro Version of B5N, Bag Loops, Clamp RARE - Bike Recyclery

partyanimal

yeah, they're solid axle. Good to know. I'm gonna see how these wheels are, if I like the bike I may try to upgrade the wheels. I saw in another thread someone recommended not going with the French Rigida wheels. Not sure what the back wheel is as there's zero information on it.

juvela

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if the front wheel rim is a Rigida SUPERCHROMIX you may discover a specific date on it inside a small diamond symbol as in the photo below. some receive the date marking and some do not.




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partyanimal

This has definitely been a learning experience. Ended up taking the entire rear wheel apart and repacking the bearings. Everything cleaned up well. Added new bar tape, some new tires, tubes and cleaning up this saddle. Still need to true the wheels (or rather, learn how to do that) and eventually replace the shifter and brake cables but I'm happy with the way it came out so far. They have the brake cables run over the top, which I'll eventually run underneath. My first attempt at rehabbing a bike. Still some work to do but...

juvela

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Thanks very much for this update.

Looking good.

You have been a busy bicycle mechanic.


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steve sumner

my first thought was how could Juvela make such a mistake! then I saw it was quickly rectified
and now all is right again