xiaoman1 

Hello,
I am trying to get some information on a ciocc san christobal, I am not able to get any pics yet ,seller says all campy brev and record.
In reading some of earlier posts it appears as though they made an updated or several models of these bearing the same name over the years.
When I get a chance to see it is there an easy way to discern the remake (if there was one) from the original versions or are they all about the same quality wise?
I know pics would be nice but he does not have a newer phone with a camera...almost as analog as I am.
Regards, Ben

TheManShow

That frame is still in production. Google is your friend.

KonAaron Snake 

Reading comprehension is your friend...he inquired about the history, differences and evolution of the model. It was a good question and your snide answer was both useless and misguided.

OP - I know just enough to know I don't know that much about Ciocc. I know ten speed drives had some sort of import deal and my limited understanding is that those are less well regarded, though they probably had better paint. I am fairly certain that at least some were subcontractor built. Some folks here are ciocc enthusiasts and can provide more info...Ciocc Cat comes to mind. Pelizolli is still building, but I've heard mixed reviews regarding buying from him. The cognoscenti generally have seemed non-plussed by Ciocc.

bikemig 

Nashbar sells them. Ciocc San Cristobal Frameset

holden west

^The Nashbar website doesn't say but another retailer claims the tubeset on the new San Critsobal is SP so that helps in comparing old with new. I must say it's shocking to see the contrast between the "classic" Ciocc design and the modern carbon Ciocc on the same page.

xiaoman1 

AAron, thanks for the reply, i am going to see the bike in the am...i will follow up on some of your leads....thanks much. Regards, Ben

xiaoman1 

thank you

beauty is in the eyes of the beholder....thanks to all for the responses.
regards, Ben

unworthy1

I can only add a little to the knowledge base: If this is an old model Ciocc, the San Cristobal model was a top-of-line frame that commemorated Claudio Corti’s winning of 1977 world cup on a Pelizzoli-built frame. When he (the original Ciocc) was building this frame they were all-chrome-plated underneath the paint, which left chrome exposed fully on the fork, nearly all the rear triangle but NOT on the headlugs. The headlugs had a distinctive "pintail" tip on the top of the socket ends. and "club cutouts" in their tops as well. The club-shaped panto in the forkcrown had 4-suits of cards but is "reversed", to use a printer's term, when compared to the later contractor-built Ciocc San Cristobals (and other frame models). That "contractor" who had bought out Pelizzoli and thus got the name Ciocc as well as the rights to use San Cristobal is thought to be a firm headed by the Bonati (not Billato) brothers who also built other frames called "Conti" and "John" as a result of the buy-out and were probably the suppliers of Ciocc (and other brands) to Ten Speed Drive. When these TSD versions were produced the San Cristobal had less chrome plating and simpler lugs and other detailing, but were sometimes offered in SLX tubing, which AFAIK was not available to Pelizzoli when he made them (all I've seen from him were SL tubing, but that's not conclusive).
One side note: apparently there were Moser frames also called "San Cristobal" models, but no connection to Pelizzoli nor to the Bonatis, AFAIK, and they are clearly labeled and panto'd as "Moser".

atriot

Did ciocc's logo change with ownership? It seems the "C" becomes more stylized with later models.

unworthy1

I think the addition of the "tip" on the capital "C" (or first letter in the name, the logo uses all-capital letters) is something that changed when Sr. Pelizzoli was still owner of the name and still building the frames. I know my "early" San Cristobal has the logotype "CIOCC" with plain "C"s (No tip on the first C) and this plus many other frame details helps to pinpoint the date it was built. It did not have the "CLUB" with 4 suits of cards symbols on the headtube but just the logotype "stacked" vertically.
I'll try to find my old "before repaint" pics and attach a couple...for History!

Drillium Dude 

Don't see that often. I love the older Ciocc graphics without the "tail" on the leading "C". I for one would love to see more pics of yours before the repaint.

I remember a review of this exact bike in a 1981 (I think) issue of Bicycling. They noted that it stood out in the looks department because of all the chrome - and in 1981 I guess a fully-chromed rear triangle and fork would've been somewhat unusual.

I don't know why Ciocc's don't get more respect. I'd love to own one someday.

DD

Steve Whitlatch 

Because it does not end with an E, I, or an O.

atriot

Any thoughts on this Ciocc? I'm close to pulling the trigger but would like a sanity check first. Paint and decals are period correct and appear to be original. The chainring is a little unusual, seems to be drilled out for weight savings... Also I'm not quite sure on the stem. Were the "iper ciocc" decals standard or do they signify an upgraded model?

peugeot mongrel

Early Ciöcc's are hard to find. My late 70s Ciöcc is by far my most exciting riding bike. It is a more spirited ride than my Colnago Super or my Coppi. Descends like it's on rails. If it fits you I'd buy it.

unworthy1

very interesting and YES I'd certainly pull the trigger on that one ASAP if it's the right size! Never seen "iper Ciocc" decals on chainstays (mine just has ciocc inline in smaller size) and never seen that particular "San Cristobal" world Champ decal on the seat tube but nothing to suggest it's NOT legit, the stay cap panto certainly looks the job. I'd like to see the fork crown panto and some more detail pics...so BUY it and post 'em!

atriot

Here's a pic of the fork crown. I think I'll buy it as I've been looking for a ciocc for awhile. It certainly isn't cheap but it's less than a nashbar san cristobal replica. Thanks for your insights, if anything else comes to mind please let me know.

BlueDevil63 

I'd guess this is a late 70s San Cristobal given the lack of tail on the leading C and the somewhat chunkier graphics of earlier model. I have a confirmed 1982 (bought from original owner) and it is very similar but the graphics are a bit sleeker and the leading C has the tail.

unworthy1

Yes it's the early style forkcrown with the "club" panto where the silhouette of the club shape is debossed and the 'suits of card' are raised...interesting to see that version of the club graphic used on the headtube, I'd guess that this example is just a bit later San Cristobal to mine, but I bet it's definitely built by Giovanni himself. And no argument that it's in MUCH better condition than mine was...and to drive that point here are a few more pics of the 'rust bucket' for DD and whoever can stand to see them...it's looking much better now, but had to lose all the chrome.
Also a pic of a later forkcrown and how that panto looks for comparison to the early fork...I also own a late '80s-early '90s Ciocc and I like it just fine, it's got a beautiful re-paint from Ed Litton

atriot

A few more pictures for anyone who's interested. Couldn't let this one pass me by...

unworthy1

you certainly spent your money wisely, once you get it all sorted and fit I predict this will become a favorite ride...congrats!

atriot

Prior to this foray into c&v I had built up a weight weenie carbon frame single speed. It weighed a hair over 12lbs but had absolutely no soul. Ended up selling it at a tremendous loss because I just wanted it gone. It had no heart; she was a harsh riding mistress. This ciocc stirs passions and gets the blood pumping, the antithesis of clinical carbon. Glad I found her.

unworthy1

slight hi-jack: I'm about to place an order for a set of replacement decals from a USA-based decal printer (who has a stellar reputation for quality but never used him before) and these were drawn by me to exactly match those on my rust-bucket frame. So they will be all black except for the multi-color World Champ globe (which atriot's frame doesn't use) but he can use the same art to print any basic color (these don't have any outline). I'll report back with a review when the job's delivered...his prices are right in there with Greg Softley at Cyclomondo and JR at Velocals, neither of whom have this style of Ciocc decals for sale.

As for the mystery of what the "Iper" stands for in Iper Ciocc, you can still reach the Man himself, Giovanni Pelizzoli, through his shop or perhaps his blog. He has answered questions from fans before but might help if you translate to italian. I for one would love to hear his thoughts about this (atriot's) frame: https://www.pelizzoliworld.com/

atriot

I'm pretty sure iper is Italian for hyper but what exactly denotes is a mystery. Zugzwang: Iper Ciöcc Mod. San Cristobal: Ultrarares Schmuckstück aus Bergamo, Massanfertigung von 1978 This Iper Ciocc appears to be of the same vintage as mine, though it has a few pantographed extras...

Tell me more about your Ciocc restoration. What model and make is it? How far along are you in the process?

Bikerider007

I like the older ones as well. Anyone k ow what year the Logo changed. The flying c reminds me of the Cinelli logo that was created in 79'.

atriot

It's not definitive but the change appears to have occurred somewhere between 1979 and 1980.