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Corona virus affecting your training?

Old 03-15-20, 02:51 AM
  #101  
bruce19
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Not really. Forgetting the political aspect -which we are forbidden to talk about- there seems to be some bureaucratic malfeasance here. Rolling out a botched test and then forbidding anybody from using alternative tests.
You can't forget the political aspect. The bureaucracy is directed by political decisions. And, since agency heads are political appointees and agency budgets are determined by political people, these agencies basically do what they are directed to do. And, apparently there was a pandemic response unit that was disbanded a year ago to save money. So there's that.
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Old 03-15-20, 08:53 AM
  #102  
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Panic and paranoia has infected more people than the actual virus.
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Old 03-15-20, 09:29 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
You can't forget the political aspect. The bureaucracy is directed by political decisions. And, since agency heads are political appointees and agency budgets are determined by political people, these agencies basically do what they are directed to do. And, apparently there was a pandemic response unit that was disbanded a year ago to save money. So there's that.
I dont want to discuss the political aspect because this topic will be shut down. There seems to be another layer of bureaucratic incompetence related to the roll out of tests. The CDC had a very good reputation but they seem to have flushed that down the toilet.
The pandemic response unit was part of the NSA not the CDC. I think part of the problem is interagency rivalry, CDC vs FDA, etc. And I agree they are taking cues, if not orders from their political masters.

Back to training, its -24 C this morning, too cold to go cross country skiing let alone cycling.
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Old 03-15-20, 09:31 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Panic and paranoia has infected more people than the actual virus.
I think the virus will catch up. If people acted sensibly and practised social distancing instead of hoarding toilet paper things would be much better.
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Old 03-15-20, 10:02 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Back to training, its -24 C this morning, too cold to go cross country skiing let alone cycling.
I bike commuted, I mountain biked and XC skied in those temps. That's about the coldest that it ever gets here in my area. We only get these temps every few years , not every winter is like that.
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Old 03-15-20, 07:23 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I bike commuted, I mountain biked and XC skied in those temps. That's about the coldest that it ever gets here in my area. We only get these temps every few years , not every winter is like that.
I have done all that too, but I would prefer not to, as I get older. It warmed up quite a bit and I went and skied in a local park for an hour and a half. That is my training for today.

In January skied up at Amiskwi lodge for a few days at close to -30 temps. Coldest was -34 one night. Weren't actually skiing at that temperature.
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Old 03-15-20, 10:22 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
If this keeps on going for much longer it will start to affect my nutrition and what I normally eat. I just came back from a very large grocery store and I've never seen anything like this here in Canada. All the meat, rice, eggs, oatmeal, pasta noodles, beans, bread and many other food products were completely sold out not even one of those items left. Lucky for me at least I have a lot of yogurt in my fridge and enough meat and eggs for the next 5 days. I am glad I stocked up about 2 weeks ago...I did experience food shortages when I lived under communism but I never imagined this could happen here in Canada. Oh and another thing that's sold out is toilet paper...Can anybody explain why people are hoarding toilet paper ??…Are people going insane ??
  1. Most people really don't want to be without TP.
  2. There aren't many things you can substitute for TP.
  3. Folks know they might be quarantined for 2 weeks or more. See #1 in this list.
  4. This is a respiratory illness. TP can take the place of tissues, in fact it's cheaper than tissues. Also cheaper than paper towels, and can fill in for them too.
  5. It's big, which makes it conspicuous. You can buy a month's worth of black beans in a basket. Two packages of TP are very noticable.
  6. You can make a DYI mask out of TP and rubber bands.
​​​​​​ It's not that hoarder sheeple are buying it up for no reason. This happened in other countries that were hit by C-19 before we were, and it was predictable that it would happen here too.
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Old 03-15-20, 10:26 PM
  #108  
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Italy reports 368 coronavirus deaths in 24 hours Iran announced more than 100 people have died in the past 24 hours https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...054153018.html

Somebody tell me again this is the same as the flu.
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Old 03-15-20, 11:41 PM
  #109  
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This is the same as the flu. Not sure why you needed that?

Read up on the 1918 Spanish Influenza - an estimated 50 million dead.
You know, before a vaccine was developed, when it became a pandemic, when it effected the general population, when it was droplet spread, with similar precautions...

But to be precise. It was similar, not the same.



Maybe you should try being grateful it's very similar to the flu.

Grateful that we had the 1918 event to draw from, that it inspired scientists to make influenza one of the most studied viruses in the world and that this virus is similar enough that most of their finding apply to it as well.

Grateful that it is similar enough that the already developed models for spread and containment come from that understanding. We know about self quarantine, droplet spread, hand washing, flattening the curve. It works for the flu and it works for this. We don't have to discover any of this thankfully. Just apply what we already know.

Grateful that the scientists who are working on a vaccine have honed their skills by working on influenza for decades and that this virus is similar enough that their knowledge and equipment can be flexed to finding a solution for it. That they don't have to scramble to find new equipment systems or biological understanding to work on a unique virus.

Grateful that because it is similar to influenza that on a personal level we already know the precautions we need to take, and how we can effectively protect ourselves from contamination. We don't have to guess at that.

Grateful that, similar to the flu, protection isn't cost prohibitive. Do some social distancing, wash your hands, don't touch your face. Don't visit people if you are sick.

Grateful that is similar enough to the flu that the same PPE's (personal protective equipment) that work for one, work for the other. Exactly the same in fact.

Or... think that all bets are off, that we have never seen anything like this, and we really don't know what to do. It's your call. But all that won't protect you from corona - for that you should think of it as a potentially deadly flu, learn how you would protect yourself from that, and act accordingly.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 03-16-20 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 03-16-20, 12:17 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Panic and paranoia has infected more people than the actual virus.
I certainly hope so, by an order of magnitude of at least 4. In this case, extreme caution and paranoia are warranted. As we used to say, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. I'm afraid, very afraid, and I'm taking precautions proportional to that fear. Except for riding solo and an every-two-weeks shopping trip, we've hunkered down. We have risk factors but OTOH the fact that other people out there have risk factors is every reason for everyone to take every precaution possible. I wipe everything down once a day with alcohol. I wash my hands many, many times a day. I pick up my mail with gloves on and open my doors with anything but my hands. My own doors. The object of the game is to reduce the height of the initial spike so that that fewer will die for lack of medical care.

Among all industrialized countries, the US has the fewest hospital beds and a hollowed out infrastructure. Just cost-saving, you know.

Everett-Seattle commute times are now in the 60 mph average range, rather than the 20 mph range. Good that most people are paying attention.
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Old 03-16-20, 01:41 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
This is the same as the flu. Not sure why you needed that?

Read up on the 1918 Spanish Influenza - an estimated 50 million dead.
You know, before a vaccine was developed, when it became a pandemic, when it effected the general population, when it was droplet spread, with similar precautions...

But to be precise. It was similar, not the same.



Maybe you should try being grateful it's very similar to the flu.

Grateful that we had the 1918 event to draw from, that it inspired scientists to make influenza one of the most studied viruses in the world and that this virus is similar enough that most of their finding apply to it as well.

Grateful that it is similar enough that the already developed models for spread and containment come from that understanding. We know about self quarantine, droplet spread, hand washing, flattening the curve. It works for the flu and it works for this. We don't have to discover any of this thankfully. Just apply what we already know.

Grateful that the scientists who are working on a vaccine have honed their skills by working on influenza for decades and that this virus is similar enough that their knowledge and equipment can be flexed to finding a solution for it. That they don't have to scramble to find new equipment systems or biological understanding to work on a unique virus.

Grateful that because it is similar to influenza that on a personal level we already know the precautions we need to take, and how we can effectively protect ourselves from contamination. We don't have to guess at that.

Grateful that, similar to the flu, protection isn't cost prohibitive. Do some social distancing, wash your hands, don't touch your face. Don't visit people if you are sick.

Grateful that is similar enough to the flu that the same PPE's (personal protective equipment) that work for one, work for the other. Exactly the same in fact.

Or... think that all bets are off, that we have never seen anything like this, and we really don't know what to do. It's your call. But all that won't protect you from corona - for that you should think of it as a potentially deadly flu, learn how you would protect yourself from that, and act accordingly.
Just read this: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/p...-comparing-flu
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Old 03-16-20, 03:46 PM
  #112  
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Sorry, I don't get my medical information from politically motivated social media sites. If its as bad as you think it is, why are you doing that? Every talking head is going to try to create drama to get clicks.

I think its bad and that's why I'm following the information from provincial and federal health authorities who are following WHO protocols developed thankfully from its similarity to influenza.

What is confusing you and some others is your comparison of influenza to only a mild form of the flu. I work in healthcare with a vulnerable population so I think of influenza as the 1918 variety.

Someone said earlier they don't see the comparison because they don't currently worry about a loved one getting the flu but do about getting corona. That's not how we think in residential care where influenza outbreaks kill residents each year.

The general population does not respect the power of influenza, which is too bad, because they think it will not effect them directly. With corona it is now awakening to that power. Fortunately, the road map to prevention and containment is known, thanks to its similarity to influenza.

I dont know why you don't want to acknowledge that road map. I find it comforting to know we understand what will work and what we need to do.

It's going to be a rough road but at least we don't need to reinvent the wheel.

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Old 03-16-20, 06:35 PM
  #113  
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With respect to the flu, perhaps people have become a bit complacent because there are actual flu vaccines, so they fell more confident.
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Old 03-16-20, 07:33 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Sorry, I don't get my medical information from politically motivated social media sites. If its as bad as you think it is, why are you doing that? Every talking head is going to try to create drama to get clicks.

I think its bad and that's why I'm following the information from provincial and federal health authorities who are following WHO protocols developed thankfully from its similarity to influenza.

What is confusing you and some others is your comparison of influenza to only a mild form of the flu. I work in healthcare with a vulnerable population so I think of influenza as the 1918 variety.

Someone said earlier they don't see the comparison because they don't currently worry about a loved one getting the flu but do about getting corona. That's not how we think in residential care where influenza outbreaks kill residents each year.

The general population does not respect the power of influenza, which is too bad, because they think it will not effect them directly. With corona it is now awakening to that power. Fortunately, the road map to prevention and containment is known, thanks to its similarity to influenza.

I dont know why you don't want to acknowledge that road map. I find it comforting to know we understand what will work and what we need to do.

It's going to be a rough road but at least we don't need to reinvent the wheel.
Head, sand.

typical flu season 3-5 million cases worldwide
300-500 thousand deaths

Covid 19 has the potential to be 100 million plus cases and 5 million plus deaths. We all hope those numbers prove too high, but this is definitely not business as usual
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Old 03-16-20, 07:57 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
With respect to the flu, perhaps people have become a bit complacent because there are actual flu vaccines, so they fell more confident.
Absolutely. And the modern flu usually doesn't target healthy individuals with severe outcomes. The view is a little different for those in residential care, with cystic fibrosis, COPD, suppressed immune systems etc... But to see the similarity one only needs to look to the 1918 influenza pandemic that also swept across the globe - with no available vaccine, killing the strong and healthy with no discrimination. By the time it was over more people died from it than in all the countries involved in WWI.

I used to talk to a lady who was born during that time, who never met her father. He was a farmer who came in from the field, said he felt unwell, and died within a day or two. Just like that, from influenza.

When I reiterate, what our Canadian health care system is saying, in regards to this being similar to influenza, it is not to minimize the concern. The concern is real enough. It's to remind others that the method of transmission, preventative measures, protective equipment, and individual and collective behaviors required are all well known, because the two viruses share the same base pathology. Thank goodness.
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Old 03-16-20, 08:01 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Head, sand.

typical flu season 3-5 million cases worldwide
300-500 thousand deaths

Covid 19 has the potential to be 100 million plus cases and 5 million plus deaths. We all hope those numbers prove too high, but this is definitely not business as usual
Can't read?
Spanish influenza - 50 million.
Your business as usual is not my business as usual. Your lack of concern for influenza is not my lack of concern. As I've explain too many times.

The only ones with their heads in the sand are those who still want to think that this is so different that the preventative strategies already understood don't apply - non compliance, not lack of information.
But go ahead, knock yourself out.

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Old 03-17-20, 12:15 AM
  #117  
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Not to turn this discussion political but tonight I saw some coverage from the US and how the phrasing "just like the flu" had been used by some politicians early on to minimise the seriousness of covid 19. From that perspevtive I can see why some people would argue against the language. I must confess I rarely watch American political coverage these days.

It's interesting that in our (Canadian) health care messaging, the same terminology has been used, not to minimise concern, but to instruct care providers as to how to proceed with precautions.

Two completely different ways that language can be interpreted and I now suspect, a major reason for the disconnect here.
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Old 03-17-20, 12:25 AM
  #118  
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6.7 million people under a shelter-in-place order in the San Francisco Bay Area. They're allowed outside for essential travel only, and for exercise. But you must maintain 6+ feet of separation from anybody else. So no group rides. Seattle will probably follow.
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Old 03-17-20, 02:37 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
With respect to the flu, perhaps people have become a bit complacent because there are actual flu vaccines, so they fell more confident.
Despite the fact that flus have been getting worse and worse ... and the world should have implemented handwashing and social distancing every winter!

Walking around at lunch is fantastic now! Everyone steps aside and I don't have people gluing themselves to my arm or trying to pat my hair.

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Old 03-17-20, 08:27 AM
  #120  
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I would still pat your hair... but with a mitten on.
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Old 03-17-20, 10:37 AM
  #121  
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Here is the report which changed Trump's tone on this pandemic. I got it off my "social media" news website. It's everything we know at this time about the tough choices being made by us and for us. The author is a well-respected epidemiologist in England.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imp...16-03-2020.pdf
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Old 03-17-20, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Here is the report which changed Trump's tone on this pandemic. I got it off my "social media" news website. It's everything we know at this time about the tough choices being made by us and for us. The author is a well-respected epidemiologist in England.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imp...16-03-2020.pdf
That's a good read.

Unfortunately, on the same social feeds you will get stuff like drinking warm water helps reduce infection, holding your breath for 10 seconds is a good diagnostic test and that it is all a big conspiracy by (pick your favorite villian).

Government of Canada Health Minister and staff are giving daily updates each day at noon.

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Old 03-17-20, 12:38 PM
  #123  
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I wonder if they change gloves for every test they give at these drive through covid testing stations?
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Old 03-17-20, 12:43 PM
  #124  
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They do a lot more than just changing gloves between patients at the drive-through site at the hospital where I work. Trust me, this is being taken much more seriously by those of us in healthcare than it is by much of the general population. (Present company excluded, of course, as BF members are smart and cautious for the most part.)
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Old 03-17-20, 03:03 PM
  #125  
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Can't go and sit in restaurants or fast food places anymore. You can only order take-outs, have your food delivered or use a drive-thru. All gyms, social events, community centers and even our provincial court of justice have all been closed. Most stores and businesses are operating on reduced hours....All I can say is that the economic impact of this virus is going to be huge. At least I can still bike commute and do my weekend recreational rides. Maintaining fitness and strength isn't a problem because I workout at home.
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