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Component upgrade vs. new bike

Old 04-02-20, 01:23 PM
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EGBigelo
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Component upgrade vs. new bike

Last year I got a 2019 Trek Dual Sport 2. I'm a road bike rider, but got the DS2 for around the town riding, errands, etc.

One thing that really bugs me about it is the gearing. I'm thinking of replacing the 3 x 8 with a 1 x 10 or 1 x 11. It has the Acera rear derailleur and I don't know if that's capable of 11 gears. And while I can do most things on a bike, this might be beyond my skill level so the LBS would do it, or most of it. And I'm thinking about swapping out the stock 38mm tires for 45mm.

No doubt this would cost less than a new bike, but would I be better off with a new bike already having this setup? I guess I've never been totally happy with the DS2 and this is my excuse for a new bike, but if I could make this work I'd save a whole lot of money.
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Old 04-02-20, 06:46 PM
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The Acera rear derailleur will not be compatible with 10 or 11 speed. The cable pull ratio is the same for 7/8/9 speed, but went to a different ratio for 10 speed, and it's a different ratio still for 11 speed. So you'll need a 10 speed shifter, 10 speed chain, 10 speed cassette, and 10 speed derailleur. If you're losing the front crankset for a 1x crank, you should be okay there, but you'd very likely need to replace the front crankset for one with narrower rings (a 10 speed chain probably won't mesh well with the fatter rings designed for the wider 8 speed chain). Regarding the hub, a 10 speed cassette should fit no problem on your hub, but I think 11 speed is wider, so you may need a new hub and/or adapter.

Depending on the type of bike you bought, you probably would still save money by upgrading this one, depending on how you did it. Ideally, you could find someone locally selling a 10 or 11 speed drivetrain used (maybe they're upgrading to 12, etc.). There are also drivetrain packages you can buy new. This website has a few collections with prices to give you an idea regarding rough order of magnitude.
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Old 04-02-20, 07:16 PM
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If I needed to spend a significant amount of money on a bike, I would buy a new one.
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Old 04-02-20, 07:48 PM
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If I had a use for the old parts or an intent to use them for a future project then I'd have no trouble upgrading. If I didn't then I'd be more inclined to get a new one and keep the old bike as a backup.
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Old 04-02-20, 08:23 PM
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Check if the frame and fork have clearance for larger tires.

Just go 1x11 or 1x12. Not that much more expensive, but more range. Labor cost would be the same as going 1x10.
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Old 04-02-20, 09:24 PM
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EGBigelo
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Thanks everyone, lots to consider. I am calling the bilk shop tomorrow to get an estimate. They aren't open for sales, but in my state they can at least do repairs until everything gets back to normal. So buying a new bike is out of the question right now, unless I do it online.
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Old 04-05-20, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by EGBigelo View Post
Last year I got a 2019 Trek Dual Sport 2. I'm a road bike rider, but got the DS2 for around the town riding, errands, etc.

One thing that really bugs me about it is the gearing. I'm thinking of replacing the 3 x 8 with a 1 x 10 or 1 x 11. It has the Acera rear derailleur and I don't know if that's capable of 11 gears. And while I can do most things on a bike, this might be beyond my skill level so the LBS would do it, or most of it. And I'm thinking about swapping out the stock 38mm tires for 45mm.

No doubt this would cost less than a new bike, but would I be better off with a new bike already having this setup? I guess I've never been totally happy with the DS2 and this is my excuse for a new bike, but if I could make this work I'd save a whole lot of money.
If the frame is worth it, I have no problems upgrading the parts. If the frame does not fit or you don't like it, a new drivetrain will not be advisable.

Before the drivetrain, I would make tackle the fork and wheels first if you haven't done so yet. Always prioritize frame, fork, and wheels first. In that order.

Also, what will the 10+ sp 1x give you that the 3x8 does not have? And why are you not happy with the DS2?
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Old 04-05-20, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by EGBigelo View Post

One thing that really bugs me about it is the gearing. I'm thinking of replacing the 3 x 8 with a 1 x 10 or 1 x 11. It has the Acera rear derailleur and I don't know if that's capable of 11 gears. .
im curious what bugs you about 3x8 gearing. It can support a wide range of gear ratio. Also i have heard some complaints that 11 speed and greater derailleurs can be a bit tricky to adjust properly.

Note, i do like 3x gearing with grip shifters to i can switch fast. Other options get pretty tedious.
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Old 04-10-20, 12:25 AM
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EGBigelo
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Originally Posted by preferdownhill View Post
im curious what bugs you about 3x8 gearing. It can support a wide range of gear ratio. Also i have heard some complaints that 11 speed and greater derailleurs can be a bit tricky to adjust properly.

Note, i do like 3x gearing with grip shifters to i can switch fast. Other options get pretty tedious.
I think it's that the jumps between gears is too large. I'm used to my road bike, with a Shimano 105 group set. I'm always in the right gear on that bike it seems, and I rarely have to move between the small and large chain ring at all.
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Old 04-10-20, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by EGBigelo View Post
I think it's that the jumps between gears is too large. I'm used to my road bike, with a Shimano 105 group set. I'm always in the right gear on that bike it seems, and I rarely have to move between the small and large chain ring at all.
Generally speaking, more chainrings allows one to have a tighter rear cluster.

More clicks in the rear can tighten gear ratios or eliminate chainrings for range.

Low end gears have bad ratios. I run some XT and XTR 8 speeds to this day and they are fantastic. The secret to triples is to have a close ratio cassette and use the chainrings for range; most low end setups have a large range with large gaps between the shifts. Sram PG850 comes in 12-26. If your only issue is close ratios, that would be the easiest solution. A 1x will not necessarily help your issue, and if done wrong you could end up with gappy shifting and way less money. For a 1x, you really need to nail the chainring and cassette ratios, so bust out your gear chart.

A very cheap update would be going to 9 speed, that would only require one shifter, a chain, and a casette. 9 sp cassettes comes in more ratios than 8sp, and a 9sp 11-28 is easy to get and much tighter than an 8sp 11-28. There is still a 12-27 9sp available, which I really like. For triples, 3x9 is a sweet spot of range and close ratios. That's assuming that you are OK with your crank gearing, which cannot be changed.

If going 10+ sp, I would change the crank because at that point I am looking at a double max, 3x10 doesn't make much sense to me. Your crank does not have interchangeable rings, so it has to go.
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Old 04-11-20, 10:31 PM
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EGBigelo
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Originally Posted by DorkDisk View Post
Generally speaking, more chainrings allows one to have a tighter rear cluster.

A very cheap update would be going to 9 speed, that would only require one shifter, a chain, and a casette. 9 sp cassettes comes in more ratios than 8sp, and a 9sp 11-28 is easy to get and much tighter than an 8sp 11-28. There is still a 12-27 9sp available, which I really like. For triples, 3x9 is a sweet spot of range and close ratios. That's assuming that you are OK with your crank gearing, which cannot be changed.
I like this approach, and I think I can handle do this work myself. My LBS is fully shut down for now anyway. And you mentioned tires in your other reply, and I haven't given that much thought. I'm still running the stock tires and the seem fine for me for the riding I'm doing now. Mostly pavement but I've been exploring some light dirt/gravel trails.
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Old 04-12-20, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by EGBigelo View Post
I like this approach, and I think I can handle do this work myself. My LBS is fully shut down for now anyway. And you mentioned tires in your other reply, and I haven't given that much thought. I'm still running the stock tires and the seem fine for me for the riding I'm doing now. Mostly pavement but I've been exploring some light dirt/gravel trails.
Not only tires, but the entire wheelset. In terms of importance in builds, I always stress foremost in order: frame, fork and wheels. OEM wheels are pretty poor in weight, bearing quality, and materials; most modern inexpensive bikes have good frames that are let down by their uninspiringly heavy wheels. There are more options now for hybrids now that road bikes have gone 135 and disc.

Buildwise, wheels (with BB) tell me what drivetrain the bike can take, and the tire size window (which should jive with frame and fork capacity)

For example, if you really wanted to go to 11sp and use a tight road cassette (or 12sp), you will need a new wheel with a different driver.

As for tires, I would suggest always buying a folding tire over a non-folding one. This (and light tubes) are the cheapest weight savings in the bike world.

Neither wheels nor tires will fix a frame you do not like, or tighten your rear shifting per se. But, a new wheel with 11sp road cassette (and crankset) can solve your problem, at a high cost. One can also screw this up and end up with $800 offroad wheels that fit a narrow spectrum of tires for your frame and beautifully pricey but gappy 11sp XT. So, we are back to your original question, "Is it worth it?" Only you can decide.
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Old 04-12-20, 10:41 AM
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Regarding the upgrade being worth: whatever you upgrade you can move to a future bike. Just keep the old drivetrain. Like if you buy a nice 1x12 and in 2 years you decide to get a new bike or frame, you can reuse that 1x12 for that and just install you 3x8 back on this before selling.

Same with disc brakes, saddle, pedals etc.

This gets tricky with items related to frame standards like hub spacing. But the drivetrain isn't an upgrade specific to that bike.
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Old 04-12-20, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by EGBigelo View Post
Last year I got a 2019 Trek Dual Sport 2. I'm a road bike rider, but got the DS2 for around the town riding, errands, etc.

One thing that really bugs me about it is the gearing. I'm thinking of replacing the 3 x 8 with a 1 x 10 or 1 x 11. It has the Acera rear derailleur and I don't know if that's capable of 11 gears. And while I can do most things on a bike, this might be beyond my skill level so the LBS would do it, or most of it. And I'm thinking about swapping out the stock 38mm tires for 45mm.

No doubt this would cost less than a new bike, but would I be better off with a new bike already having this setup? I guess I've never been totally happy with the DS2 and this is my excuse for a new bike, but if I could make this work I'd save a whole lot of money.
Replacing the entire drive train seems like an expensive fix for an around town errand bike. Others have pointed out that you might just want to tweak your gearing with a closer range cassette, which will cost $25 or $30 in parts plus labor as opposed to the $300 to $500 it will cost you to replace an entire drive train, (shifters, derailleurs, chainring, crankset, chain plus labor) which may or may not include the cost of a new back wheel.
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