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Numbness vs Saddle slippage

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Numbness vs Saddle slippage

Old 04-01-20, 07:54 AM
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Berge20
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Numbness vs Saddle slippage

Still working through re-fitting an upgraded/tweaked machine and now dealing with the challenge of groin numbness vs forward slippage on my saddle angle choice. If I go more level on the saddle, everything is fine, except I'm getting numb 10-miles in (groin area) from the pressure angles in play. If I lower the seat angle, that goes away, but I'm slipping forward on the saddle fairly regularly. Would moving the seat back slightly (while keeping a slightly declined angle) potentially help the slippage?

Thanks as always
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Old 04-01-20, 08:32 AM
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You might consider, if you haven't already, a saddle with a slot down the middle. Alternately, with the saddle level which your say stops the numbness but promotes sliding forward, try moving the saddle back a tiny bit. Don't despair; there is a combination of saddle position or change in saddle, stem length, that will work. I had similar issues, nearly to the point of giving up cycling. Eventually it all worked.
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Old 04-01-20, 10:24 AM
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Yeah, different saddle. If this is happening and you already have a slot, you need a larger one.The saddle I'm riding now has about 1.5", V-shaped, narrower in front obviously, wider in back. Berner is correct in his assertion.
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Old 04-01-20, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Berge20 View Post
Still working through re-fitting an upgraded/tweaked machine and now dealing with the challenge of groin numbness vs forward slippage on my saddle angle choice. If I go more level on the saddle, everything is fine, except I'm getting numb 10-miles in (groin area) from the pressure angles in play. If I lower the seat angle, that goes away, but I'm slipping forward on the saddle fairly regularly. Would moving the seat back slightly (while keeping a slightly declined angle) potentially help the slippage?

Thanks as always
If you are slipping forward, your saddle position is not right, or your reach is too long. I would venture to guess you may have your saddle too high. It may be a combination of too high, and not far enough back. If the saddle is too far forward, as you pedal you push yourself forward. Of course if you push the saddle back, you will also need to lower the saddle. It is amazing how many people I see these days with saddles too high. Once it is properly positioned, you will be stable on the saddle.

Read these articles and assess your position. https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...ard-can-it-be/ https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...d-can-it-be-2/ https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...or-road-bikes/

I went through it for quite a while after being fitted, by someone using all the "rules." Once I looked at it realistically using the methods in the links I posted, my seat was lower, and I had no perineum pain, no knee pain, no back pain, no hip pain, and was stable on the bike. This past summer's tour was a pleasure. I could do 50+ mile days with no pain, and do it again the next day, including a 70 mile day.
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Old 04-03-20, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
If you are slipping forward, your saddle position is not right, or your reach is too long. I would venture to guess you may have your saddle too high. It may be a combination of too high, and not far enough back. If the saddle is too far forward, as you pedal you push yourself forward. Of course if you push the saddle back, you will also need to lower the saddle. It is amazing how many people I see these days with saddles too high. Once it is properly positioned, you will be stable on the saddle.

Read these articles and assess your position. https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...ard-can-it-be/ https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...d-can-it-be-2/ https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...or-road-bikes/

I went through it for quite a while after being fitted, by someone using all the "rules." Once I looked at it realistically using the methods in the links I posted, my seat was lower, and I had no perineum pain, no knee pain, no back pain, no hip pain, and was stable on the bike. This past summer's tour was a pleasure. I could do 50+ mile days with no pain, and do it again the next day, including a 70 mile day.
I'm on the same page as Phughes. You may or may not need a slotted saddle or one with a wider slot. In my riding it has not too much to do with sliding unless I'm going to cure teh slip with a seat belt and the slots are needed to fettle the belt.

Read the Steve Hogg stuff and see if your body is in balance on teh saddle. Also, follow Hogg's advice for setting saddle height.
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Old 04-07-20, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
If you are slipping forward, your saddle position is not right, or your reach is too long. I would venture to guess you may have your saddle too high. It may be a combination of too high, and not far enough back. If the saddle is too far forward, as you pedal you push yourself forward. Of course if you push the saddle back, you will also need to lower the saddle. It is amazing how many people I see these days with saddles too high. Once it is properly positioned, you will be stable on the saddle.

Read these articles and assess your position. https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...ard-can-it-be/ https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...d-can-it-be-2/ https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...or-road-bikes/

I went through it for quite a while after being fitted, by someone using all the "rules." Once I looked at it realistically using the methods in the links I posted, my seat was lower, and I had no perineum pain, no knee pain, no back pain, no hip pain, and was stable on the bike. This past summer's tour was a pleasure. I could do 50+ mile days with no pain, and do it again the next day, including a 70 mile day.
I agree with nearly everything here, except the following: "If you are slipping forward, your saddle position is not right, or your reach is too long." That last underlined part is open to misinterpretation, and I just now noticed that! To the OP I would say, "yes your position is not right, but the comment we gave you suggests that moving the saddle forward is a valid way to solve sliding due to reach." I was wrong in not noticing that in Phughes great response, which I endorsed. I want to try to dispel the potential for misinterpretation by others in our forum. Per Hogg, the saddle fore-aft should be set based on the ease of holding your torso in an appropriate leaned position when seated on the saddle - the effort should be low so the hands are on the bar but with low pressure. I would set my fore aft with my hands not necessarily on the bars but in a gripping position, and move the saddle back so that is easy to maintain, and adjust the saddle height. Then reduce reach with a shorter stem or bar extension. Ultimately you want to have hands on the bars at your comfortable reach to your preferred hand contact position (hoods, for me since I like Ergopowers), with the rest as Phughes presents in his last paragraph.

So yes, we all need to adjust our reach and saddle setback to work together, but we do not adjust reaching to the handlebar based on moving the saddle forward of the point where our balance on the saddle is good and comfortable. Other than those 5 underlined words I agree with what Phughes has shared.
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Old 04-07-20, 11:26 AM
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All the above being said, I think the answer to the question which the OP asked is "Yes." Not a definite yes, but a yes to the question. Moving the saddle back has the potential to help and only testing can give the answer. If you do move the saddle back, be sure to readjust the height by measuring from the bottom pedal axle or BB center before and after the move. Ignore the increased reach for the test - it won't matter.

It should also be mentioned that this level saddle dogma is relatively new in the cycling community. When Specialized first built and tested their new invention, the Body Geometry saddle, they found that yes, the BG saddles did eliminate numbness - but only if the nose was tilted down 2°. There's a lot of dogma in cycling. It won't hurt one to look at some of the science behind positioning on the road bike:

Correct adjustment is whatever makes you comfortable and allows you to get the performance you want.

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Old 04-07-20, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I agree with nearly everything here, except the following: "If you are slipping forward, your saddle position is not right, or your reach is too long." That last underlined part is open to misinterpretation, and I just now noticed that! To the OP I would say, "yes your position is not right, but the comment we gave you suggests that moving the saddle forward is a valid way to solve sliding due to reach." I was wrong in not noticing that in Phughes great response, which I endorsed. I want to try to dispel the potential for misinterpretation by others in our forum. Per Hogg, the saddle fore-aft should be set based on the ease of holding your torso in an appropriate leaned position when seated on the saddle - the effort should be low so the hands are on the bar but with low pressure. I would set my fore aft with my hands not necessarily on the bars but in a gripping position, and move the saddle back so that is easy to maintain, and adjust the saddle height. Then reduce reach with a shorter stem or bar extension. Ultimately you want to have hands on the bars at your comfortable reach to your preferred hand contact position (hoods, for me since I like Ergopowers), with the rest as Phughes presents in his last paragraph.

So yes, we all need to adjust our reach and saddle setback to work together, but we do not adjust reaching to the handlebar based on moving the saddle forward of the point where our balance on the saddle is good and comfortable. Other than those 5 underlined words I agree with what Phughes has shared.
To clarify, I did not suggest moving the saddle to change the reach.
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Old 04-07-20, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
To clarify, I did not suggest moving the saddle to change the reach.
I know, no offense intended!
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Old 04-07-20, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I know, no offense intended!
No offense taken, just clarifying and agreeing with you. Good point.
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Old 04-10-20, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
All the above being said, I think the answer to the question which the OP asked is "Yes." Not a definite yes, but a yes to the question. Moving the saddle back has the potential to help and only testing can give the answer. If you do move the saddle back, be sure to readjust the height by measuring from the bottom pedal axle or BB center before and after the move. Ignore the increased reach for the test - it won't matter.

It should also be mentioned that this level saddle dogma is relatively new in the cycling community. When Specialized first built and tested their new invention, the Body Geometry saddle, they found that yes, the BG saddles did eliminate numbness - but only if the nose was tilted down 2°. There's a lot of dogma in cycling. It won't hurt one to look at some of the science behind positioning on the road bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNAh6FAm3ew

Correct adjustment is whatever makes you comfortable and allows you to get the performance you want.
True dat! I actually have one of those older Toupes and I made a little wedgie thing that lets a bubble level indicate level when the saddle is nose down 2 deg What I do now, with Toupes, Brooksies old and new, Selle AnAtomicas, a vintage Ideale 92 and a Rivet, is to set my height and setback (back and forth until both are right) with the saddle level, then pedal, feeling for pressure, cramps, crimps, abrasions, and too much pressure ahead of my sit bones. The remaining adjustments are small adjustments in height and tilt, and to rotate the saddle nose left or nose right. It ain't simple.

I need to use that strategy for the old Toupe and for my newer one (with the gel ) ! Old Brooks Pro, Brooks B15 Swallow Select, and old Ideale 92 are still my best, with all that!
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