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No mainstream love for steel?

Old 04-09-20, 02:11 PM
  #26  
pbass
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Originally Posted by wsteve464
As pointed out you won't find much in the way of steel frames from the big 3 but they are out there some reasonably priced.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features...el-road-bikes/

https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide...gs-traditional

Rodeo Labs makes a nice one as does Niner
There's really quite a lot of steel options once you get away form the big 3 as you say, and many that don't break the bank. Some easier to find than others of course:
Kona (always some steel in their lineup)
Salsa (same as Kona)
All City
Surly
Black Mountain
Niner
Bombtrack
and then of course many smaller frame builders, but then things can start getting more pricey--Breadwinner, Chumba, and so on....
Specialized does have the Sequoia though, which is a great bike.

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Old 04-09-20, 02:24 PM
  #27  
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I actually looked at a Niner for a moment as well. Great looking bikes. I read and article here that they had been purchased by one of the "big" conglomerates not long back (year or two) and there was some question as to whether they were going to continue on or even be the same bike. Any word on that?
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Old 04-09-20, 02:59 PM
  #28  
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I do like some of the Lemond stuff in which he would blend Carbon Fiber in with other frame materials in his work 👍
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Old 04-09-20, 03:01 PM
  #29  
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Jamis makes a number of steel bikes, some of which roll out an LBS's door as complete bikes for less than $1,000.
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Old 04-09-20, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by philbob57
Jamis makes a number of steel bikes, some of which roll out an LBS's door as complete bikes for less than $1,000.
And I have one of those....

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Old 04-09-20, 03:53 PM
  #31  
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Main stream seams to be driven by high end road cycling. For the rest of us ride what makes you happy. For me is my surly cross check going on 13 years old and my new jamis renegade.... My renegade makes me very happy

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Old 04-09-20, 03:57 PM
  #32  
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I would not look at Buy-cycling magazine for shopping advice.

pbass : There are plenty of great steel frames out there. I do have a cf-framed bike, but ride my steel bikes the most.
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Old 04-09-20, 04:01 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Chris!
Main stream seams to be driven by high end road cycling. For the rest of us ride what makes you happy. For me is my surly cross check going on 13 years old and my new jamis renegade.... My renegade makes me very happy

My quiver is similar. Surly Cross Check and a 2019 Kona Rove ST which I adore. The steel Renegades are great.
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Old 04-09-20, 04:01 PM
  #34  
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Haven't seen the article but what were the categories and what Steel bike(s) do you think are as good or better as the ones selected as best in category?
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Old 04-09-20, 04:41 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg
Haven't seen the article but what were the categories and what Steel bike(s) do you think are as good or better as the ones selected as best in category?
I'd have to go back and pick out something and make a comparison, and of course, I'm biased as I prefer steel. But for example, if I had $4k to drop on a gravel bike I wouldn't spend it on a carbon Cervelo. I'd get an awesomely spec'd out Breadwinner or Crust something like that.
It's totally subjective of course. I just found it curious there was only one steel bike in the whole thing, in all the categories!
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Old 04-09-20, 04:53 PM
  #36  
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I'm about to pull the trigger on a steel bike (when the damn bike shop opens again), so as long as its 4130 I'm good, right? I mean is there different grades of 4130 etc?
I'm looking at Marin Muirwoods with a lifetime warranty on the frame.
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Old 04-09-20, 06:45 PM
  #37  
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A manufacture I haven't seen mentioned yet is Soma.


I prefer with steel when it makes sense. If I was looking for a full suspension bike, it would be in aluminium due lack of options in steel.
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Old 04-09-20, 06:51 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Jicafold
In issue 5, 2019 Bicycling they had an article about the steel Motobecane Gran Premio. I'm sure there are others.

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...-elite-review/
They also have a flat bar road bike, the CroMo Cafe 11. I don't know who bike shop warehouse is, but someone in the Hybrids forum just bought one.
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Old 04-10-20, 07:22 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Exactly!!!!!

. In 100 years, how many of todays plastic bikes will be around. If any, I bet if you would give them a good thump with your finger they would shatter.
This wont happen with a quality carbon bike. Control surfaces of many modern aircraft are made of carbon fiber and they go through extreme heat and cold cycles and are subjected to far more force and load than even the burliest 245 pound sprinter can exert on a track bikes bottom bracket

That said -- I love a quality steel bike also
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Old 04-10-20, 07:38 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by DMC707
This wont happen with a quality carbon bike. Control surfaces of many modern aircraft are made of carbon fiber and they go through extreme heat and cold cycles and are subjected to far more force and load than even the burliest 245 pound sprinter can exert on a track bikes bottom bracket
Sure, but aircraft also have mandatory inspections and replacement of parts that we don't find on production bicycles.
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Old 04-10-20, 08:03 AM
  #41  
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Steel has become the boutique material of choice. It also available online in a mid range.

I don't think the lbs just has them on the floor for test rides.
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Old 04-10-20, 08:07 AM
  #42  
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Indyfabz, I love the color of your bike! I had a Raleigh Competition (Carlton built) that was similar.

Originally Posted by indyfabz
Steel is real.
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Old 04-10-20, 08:17 AM
  #43  
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Ritchey now has a disk version of the Road Logic 2.0. I still love my rim brake version.

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Old 04-10-20, 08:30 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Sure, but aircraft also have mandatory inspections and replacement of parts that we don't find on production bicycles.
Thats correct - i am an A&P mechanic, but damaged carbon on an aircraft surface is repairable while damaged aluminum often needs a re-skin (talking control surfaces because that is the biggest carbon application in mainstream aviation so far )

But as a counterpoint , First generation Trek OCLV's and early Kestrels are already at or close to 30 years old and putting in service under recreational riders around the globe (by recreational, I mean very few people are actually still racing anything over 10 years old ) -- im leaving bonded carbon out of the discussion - because those bike's do have a rep for de-laminating and coming apart at the joints )

but some of these bikes had issues with hairline fractures early on that was usually sussed out within the first few years but the vast majority are still usable today ----- and the frames have only gotten better in the years since

I cant speak for no name Chinese open mold frames with suspect quality control processes, but any modern CF bike from one of the big dogs is built to last , and an impact that would damage a carbon bike now would also more than likely damage a steel bike as well

Both steel and carbon is repairable too , but the cost effectiveness for either depends on what you are starting out with. You wouldn't have a framebuilder replace a dented tube on a $800 frameset, as the labor plus cost to re-paint would add up to the cost of the frame --- but your $2500 Waterford frameset? or classic Paramount or something like that? --yes, would be worth repairing.

Same with a carbon bike -- repairing a base model Cannondale Synapse with an msrp for a complete bike of 2k or so might not be worth the hassle, but your higher end bike , sure --- and if you leave paint out of the equation, carbon can be repaired cheaper than steel. I live in Oklahoma City, and formerly lived in Wichita KS - both areas with a rich aviation heritage, - its easier to find someone here who can repair carbon than it is to find someone qualified to replace a damaged tube on a steel bike

And while i sound like a staunch carbon defender , and my regular use road bike is carbon - my dream custom was built using modern steel

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Old 04-10-20, 08:34 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by pbass
Just curious, as I flip through the latest Bicycling magazine round up of "best bikes in every category". With the exception of one $11k road bike, there's not a single steel bike. There's one high end titanium Moots. Otherwise, it's all carbon or aluminum. There's so many great steel rides out there now in different price ranges, especially in the gravel category, I just find it a little baffling. Is it about steel having a bad weight rap? Of course, I know I'm talking Bicycling Mag and not The Radavist or what-have-you, but still, so many folks prefer steel I find it curious.
It might seem to you that "so many folks prefer steel" but, in reality, steel bikes are a small niche in the cycling world.
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Old 04-10-20, 08:50 AM
  #46  
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I went out of my way to find an older quality 853 Reynolds frame steel bike I could enjoy over a new 4130 steel bike I could afford. Glad I did. The ride quality is superior to my CF bike. Feel like I'm on rails most of the time. A true treasure to ride an older but not vintage steel bike.
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Old 04-10-20, 09:50 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Designmindz
I'm about to pull the trigger on a steel bike (when the damn bike shop opens again), so as long as its 4130 I'm good, right? I mean is there different grades of 4130 etc?
I'm looking at Marin Muirwoods with a lifetime warranty on the frame.
4130 refers to a joint SAE/AISI standard (that is, SAE AISI 4130) which is also is referred to under the SAE's Unified Numbering System as UNS41300. Steels specified as 4130 should all conform to the standards for chemical makeup and physical properties. I'm sure, though, that different steel manufacturing and tube drawing plants have differing quality levels. It used to be that is a European, Japanese, or Americal mill went to the trouble of making such a high-strength alloy, they'd usually do it right. Today, we seem to have a race to the bottom in terms of price, which likely leads to lower quality.

So, all 4130 should meet a minimum standard which is much better than low alloy carbon steel. Some companies make a superior quality (more uniform, better tube drawing, better swaging processes for makeing butted tubes) product.

Steel has an interesting property. It's modulus of elasticity (springiness) is the same for almost all varieties of steel. Two tubes of identical thickness will flex almost exactly the same. Cheaply-made 4130 and a premium brand? Same flexiness. 4130 and 853? Ditto. For low end bikes of generic 4130, you probably get a bit thicker tube. This addresses issues like nonuniformity in alloy, and in poorly drawn tubing. That bike will ride a bit more stiffly than a bike where the mfr. trusts and takes advantage of the specified strength of the steel, and has used thinner wall tubing as/where appropriate. This should give you a strong frame that has a bit better ride. And tubing like 853, which has a higher tensile and yield strength, can be made even thinner if needed.

There's a huge variability in fabrication quality as well. I suspect that most (maybe not all) companies that are using a higher quality "Name Brand" tubeset (IIRC, Reynolds 525 and 725?, Trek CRMO) do higher quality welding/brazing/heat treatment.

So yes, all 4130 meets the same basic requirements. Differing levels of quality in metallurgy, tube drawing and swaging, and fabrication will likely make for differing levels of durability, comfort, responsiveness and weight.

Sorry to answer with a "it depends". But it does depend on other factors.

I went the same route as CAT7RDR and bought an old Lemond 853 frame.

On edit, I wanted to say that DMC707's note was very interesting. "A&P" means that he's a rated Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. That is the government lets him work on airplanes. That's good enough qualification for me. I found his comments useful/informative.

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Old 04-10-20, 09:50 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
It might seem to you that "so many folks prefer steel" but, in reality, steel bikes are a small niche in the cycling world.
That may be true. Where I live in LA you see lots of new steel bikes out and about. We have plenty of smaller shops that sell them, but I may live in a bubble.
I wonder if they were more available how it would fall out. If you walk into a bigger "mainstream" shop it's wall to wall big 3 bikes, mostly aluminum and then a few pricey carbon models, so many folks never even encounter a new steel bike while shopping (except maybe the Target one they buy for their kid that weighs 40 lbs!)
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Old 04-10-20, 09:56 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by DMC707
This wont happen with a quality carbon bike. Control surfaces of many modern aircraft are made of carbon fiber and they go through extreme heat and cold cycles and are subjected to far more force and load than even the burliest 245 pound sprinter can exert on a track bikes bottom bracket

That said -- I love a quality steel bike also
But before you use the argument that planes made of CF are so wonderful, remember that the CF tails broke off of at least 3 French Airbus airplanes killing hundreds.
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Old 04-10-20, 10:02 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by DMC707
Thats correct - i am an A&P mechanic, but damaged carbon on an aircraft surface is repairable while damaged aluminum often needs a re-skin (talking control surfaces because that is the biggest carbon application in mainstream aviation so far )

But as a counterpoint , First generation Trek OCLV's and early Kestrels are already at or close to 30 years old and putting in service under recreational riders around the globe (by recreational, I mean very few people are actually still racing anything over 10 years old ) -- im leaving bonded carbon out of the discussion - because those bike's do have a rep for de-laminating and coming apart at the joints )

but some of these bikes had issues with hairline fractures early on that was usually sussed out within the first few years but the vast majority are still usable today ----- and the frames have only gotten better in the years since

I cant speak for no name Chinese open mold frames with suspect quality control processes, but any modern CF bike from one of the big dogs is built to last , and an impact that would damage a carbon bike now would also more than likely damage a steel bike as well

Both steel and carbon is repairable too , but the cost effectiveness for either depends on what you are starting out with. You wouldn't have a framebuilder replace a dented tube on a $800 frameset, as the labor plus cost to re-paint would add up to the cost of the frame --- but your $2500 Waterford frameset? or classic Paramount or something like that? --yes, would be worth repairing.

Same with a carbon bike -- repairing a base model Cannondale Synapse with an msrp for a complete bike of 2k or so might not be worth the hassle, but your higher end bike , sure --- and if you leave paint out of the equation, carbon can be repaired cheaper than steel. I live in Oklahoma City, and formerly lived in Wichita KS - both areas with a rich aviation heritage, - its easier to find someone here who can repair carbon than it is to find someone qualified to replace a damaged tube on a steel bike

And while i sound like a staunch carbon defender , and my regular use road bike is carbon - my dream custom was built using modern steel

Cool that you have a frame-maker local to you, DMC707. That Scissortail looks great.
I don't have the legs to push a fixie/track bike anymore, so my dream bikes are Paramounts, Raleigh Pros and Cinellis from the 70s. And perhaps a Moulton Fuso or somesuch. Right now I ride a Trek Domane (2014 series 6) which has the isoflex coupling that dampens the pounding one gets to one's tush. And I bought a 1999 Lemond Zurich (853) and put a Ultegra R8000 groupset on it. That rides nice, too.
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