Miles2go

I'm a performance-focused roadie with a lot of racing background and likely will have racing entering my near future. I haven't paid much attention to the disc brakes on a road race bike discussions but I know from watching pro racing that there are many who haven't adopted them, even with all of the likely sponsor-driven pressures. Just imagine how much a boon it would be to the industry for everyone to find their bikes obsolete and in need of replacement. To that end, many new models like the new SuperSix aren't even available as a rim brake option. The last generation SuperSix is what I'm riding and I've ridden it so much it is time I need to consider finding the next one. To me, disc brakes offer little more than weight, cost and complexity, and I don't care how problem-free someone's experience has been, as I can say the same thing about my rim brake systems while both a racer and high-mileage recreational rider. I also don't care to follow "where the market is going".

Flame away, but I just wanted to register my current view on this and say that I'm out looking for some of the best race frames still available with rim braking. I'll reconsider disc brakes when I see every rider in the pro peloton running them, and even then I'll be skeptical about this.

Russ Roth

Depends on use for me. I like my rim brakes and find that an ultegra or force level set of dual pivots aren't a bad weight and will stop me just fine, haven't felt like they were ever lacking and I'm a larger person. For cross or gravel I wouldn't go back to rim brakes. When I was racing in my 20s I went through a set of rims in just over a season with 8 cross races, I think velocity's aluminum was softer then though their rims were strong enough to never need a true the whole season. Having worked in shops that were near sections of the Erie Canal trail that were cinder bed instead of paved I've seen plenty of rims that were worn to the point the brake track split so even on a road bike commuter I'd go disc if I still lived there. I'm going into the third year with my MTB discs, 2nd year with my gravel/cross bike and both still have lots of life in the discs and pads despite the mud both have slogged through and of course the rims are perfect. For me that's where discs matter; wet, mud and grit that will tear through a rim. GCN did a couple of tests and showed that a disc road bike can be ridden slightly faster but I've gotten slow enough that while I still race it won't matter enough for me.

Canker

I guess we needed one more of these threads to finish off the decade.

Miles2go

You brought up an excellent point Russ. Most pros and serious racers of my type and focus are not that heavy and in all of my riding and touring, I've never needed to replace a rim due to braking surface wear. Like many climbers, I weigh less than 160 pounds on my heaviest day of the year and I also happen to be pretty good at lead outs and break-aways. My mountain bikes certainly do have discs and in that case I could be an advocate for their use.

Canker: I searched within the last year and didn't see a thread specifically focused on questioning the need for them, though I'm sure there have been many discussions within other discussions. To me, climbing 6,000 ft in a day advocates for a balance tipped toward the best strength(rider) to weight(bike) ratio. The recent recall of BMC's disc forks could be used to back up my argument. The same fork mounted with rim brakes wouldn't have the issue. They sought to gain an advantage pushing disc brakes and it bit them. A rim brake systems may wear the braking surface of wheels, but which system provides equal forces to the dropouts? Advocating for rim brakes doesn't sell new bikes though.

bpcyclist

Well, there are a few issues here. One is, you are in Tucson, so rim brakes are not likely to be much of an issue with respect to rainfall, as they might be in Bellingham, say. My current main bike is the slightly less fancy than top-of-the-line BMC racy geometry offering with rim brakes. I ride a lot of miles, but do not race, so I got it with 105.Love that bike. Now, I grew up in Portland riding bikes all the damn time. For years. So, for me, riding a rim brake ride in this wet climate is a non-issue. I know how to do it. It's just not a problem in the least. So, even if you said you were moving to Seattle tomorrow, I still would tell you not to exclude all rim brake bikes on that basis. I think this wet-riding rim brake downside is exaggerated. Just my personal take and I appreciate that others may not share it.

Now, the second thing is carbon fiber wheels. Is that your plan? If it is, then in my view, having read virtually everything I could possibly get my hands on for months and months of study, you should absolutely go disc brakes. I do not like the potential risks of rim brakes on carbon wheels--even expensive ones. Yes, I am aware that you can get alloy or basalt or graphene or whatever braking surface on carbon fiber wheels, but I still don't like the heat situation--especially if you plan on going fast. Which you obviously do. I realize this is a somewhat controversial topic and there are no doubt carbon clinchers for rim brakes that are safe, but I don't like it. I don't like the idea of that heat being generated so close to a potentially susceptible and critical part of bike safety. If you blow out a rim because it fails at speed, you could lose your life.

The last time my insurance agent visited me, my Orbea was sitting in the corner of the living room. He asked if it was carbon fiber. I told him it was. He then told me he had just come from a meeting about a death claim of a customer whose carbon fiber wheel blew out while he was descending fairly fast. The agent went on to say that was the third death claim that year involving catastrophic carbon fiber failure of some sort on a road bike for this massive insurance company. Carbon fiber wheels ain't no joke. I would be very, very skeptical of anyone who pushes you, given how you may want to use the bike, to go with a rim brake bike with carbon fiber clinchers. Just get disc brakes if you want CF wheels. It's the safe choice, in my opinion.

Seattle Forrest

I've never found them very complex. You pull the brake lever and the bike slows down. Which part is confusing?

colombo357

The war is over. Disc brakes won.

While plenty of people will still be buying rim brake bikes over the next few years, just about all of the the R&D from the big brands in wheels and frames is now being diverted to disc only.

The number of die-hard rim brake fans are just too few to justify the added costs to the manufacturers. Pretty soon you'll have no choice.

Miles2go

Carbon wheels have been a thing for over two decades and there are all kinds of quality carbon wheels out there. Every pro team uses them and if you watch highlights of the latests TDF, you will see a surprising number of riders with caliper brakes this year, and likely every one of them riding carbon wheels. Also, I haven't been in AZ for a year yet, and moved here from the PNW, and even did a 65 mile ride in the rain since I've been living here. Like I said, when I see the entire pro peloton adopt disc brakes, I'll consider them. If pros prefer not to ride disc brakes, which most of them have access to, I'll take that as plenty of reason for me to also wait to adopt them. It will save some weight, at the very least.

Dean V

Your personal car is nothing like an Indy car and neither would you want it to be.
So why do you think your personal bike has exactly the same requirements and should therefore be the same as what a pro would use?

Miles2go

If I were riding a bicycle to the grocery store, etc., I wouldn't ride a race bike. If I ride a club ride, go on a solo ride, ride an event, or participate in a race, I ride the same bike in all of these cases, a top level racing bike. A pro takes the stress level on the same gear to the highest level, and if rim brakes are good enough for them and have a preference for them, I certainly need nothing more.

WhyFi

Oh, so it's a rhetorical question, then.

shelbyfv

indyfabz

But is tomorrow really the start of a new decade? Keep in mind that there was no A.D. 0.

rubiksoval

I find this implausible.

Just put new components on it. The frame/fork is fine.

MoAlpha

I sense the early symptoms of gestating doubt in all this bombast. Missed menses and a touch of nausea, as it were.

Marcus_Ti

Unless you're 130# sopping wet, have your own private SAG and wrenches in a car tailing you less than a km away at all times, and only ride on 100% brand-new virgin black-top....what the pros do has next to no relevance to you. These pros of course, whine about being cold in the wet--and don't ride with fenders. Geniuses.

My Ultegra disc brakes stop my bike better in all conditions than my Chorus skeleton rim-brakes. There's more control, there's more modulation. They're just plain better. Retro-grouch-ism is just that. If you want excuses to live in The Good Old Days, fine--but just admit that is what you're doing.

rubiksoval

I, and many, many others I know, have been riding and racing carbon wheels for nearly two decades. I started racing carbon wheels in 2002, in fact. And those wheels were significantly lighter than the carbon wheels currently offered.

There are lots of things to be worried about, to be sure, but carbon wheels exploding is very low on that list.

rubiksoval

Pros don't train on the bikes they race (at least the ones you're watching in WT races). Those race bikes are probably the least stressed bikes of any bike racer ever seeing as how the parts are repeatedly checked and replaced on a weekly (if not daily) basis.

"The highest level" really only means the people riding them are the best in the world. It doesn't mean the gear is under undue stress or anything.

I'd be much more interested in seeing what the one-bike, wannabe journey-man pro, 12000+ mile a year Cat 1/2 guy is on, seeing as how all of their racing and training depends on that one bike.

L134 

I might be wrong but I thought the point of the post was to find the best race bike out there with rim brakes? I’m assuming new? To me, the rest was an explanation of why that’s what OP is looking for. I don’t race and have no answer but it seems like a legitimate question?

WhyFi

He wore it out with his watts - simple.

Russ Roth

a frame can just look old and worn and if you've got to replace everything why not the frame with it? Most of my bikes look great but I had one that just seemed to be a scratch and dent magnet, definitely wouldn't bother saving the frame for a rebuild.

Doesn't seem that way, seems like someone railing against the fact that all they can find in a new road bike is disc and they don't want that.

Cyclist0108

You need carbon rim wheels because pros ride them.

You need disc brakes because you had to have carbon rims; rim brakes are a compromise and a safety hazard.

You need through-axles because you had to have disc brakes because you had to have carbon rims because you had to ride what pros ride. Quick-releases with discs are a compromise and a safety hazard.

This is how the industry works.

It is the way.

I have spoken.

Miles2go

It is not implausible, if you are familiar with BB tolerance issues. On top of that, a R5 would be a large enough upgrade to justify doing so.

firebird854

I've had the fun situation of melting my rim brakes on descents before. I also wanted carbon wheels without the sloppy breaking or heat build-up issue, so I decided to go disc brake with carbon wheels. I have fabulous breaking in every condition (it makes me laugh when everyone has to start braking farrr ahead of time on a rainy downhill, or refuses to go through a puddle blocking the road for fear of losing traction on their next descent).

You seem to be 100% against the idea that disc brakes on a road bike are a good idea and are leaning into the conspiracy that they only appear to be a good idea because of the on-going commercial efforts by most of the companies designing them, not because they are actually any improvement. Realistically though, I have two race bikes, one with alloy wheels and ultegra rim brakes, the other with carbon wheels and 105 hydraulic disc brakes (Dura-Ace rotors, however, for the bling) and I'd say on a regular sunny day, they don't feel much different, but when almost any inclement weather starts or I have to descend some unfamiliar 2000ft of switchbacks, there's simply no comparison.

So, have fun not buying into the marketing, but rim brakes are about as good as disc brakes when it's dry, sunny, you're using alloy wheels, you have fresh breaks, and you don't plan on actually using them much on long descents. However, if you want near-perfect stopping power in all conditions with carbon wheels, then discs are a no brainer.

As for maintenance, I've had to replace rim brake pads a couple of times a season but have literally not touched my disc brakes whatsoever, never adjusted them, never bled them, just rode and rode and rode with confidence.

Miles2go

The highest level I speak of is the speed, daily distance at that speed, grades at that speed, braking from those speeds. Yes, their bikes are checked over, but if rim brakes are good enough for to cover the level of performance, there is no reason for me to seek more, unless they are wearing out at a ridiculous rate, which rims and pads do not. Also, I raced Cat 2 in the early 80s and was in line for Cat 1 back in the day. I too inspected my bikes following every race and had training bikes and racing bikes.