spinnaker

Because some people think that camping on private land without permission is wrong. So you pay what you pay. That's why.

fietsbob

How much will it cost, if charged for Trespassing ? Bail, Attorney , fines, and so forth..

spinnaker

How much it might cost you in fines shouldn't be the reason why you don't camp on someone's property without permission. Sad if it is.

jonc123

I think I would skip the schools. That may not be a good idea with the recent problems.

Rob_E

It might have been worth it. Problem wasn't the mileage as I had only gone a little more than 50 miles that day, but it was getting dark in the river valley even though sunset was officially an hour away. The idea of riding for an hour in the dark and then seeking out a campground in the dark in a town I had never been to did not appeal to me. But it still might have been the right move.

Actually, with the benefit of hindsight, the right move would have been to stay put in Connellsville. I hadn't wanted to call it quits that early, but when I went to look at the next day's stopping options, it seemed like I had an almost 30 mile gap between Rockwood and Frostburg for campgrounds, and Frostburg would have cut my final day's ride down to under 20 miles, so I opted for Rockwood, which would have also been an easy ride from Connellsville.

indyfabz

There are other issues too. Years ago there was a frequent poster in Touring who finally went on a tour. He described how he camped at a school the second night. At one point he went into the baseball field dugout to wash his junk, etc. Imagine if some kids had shown up to sneak cigarettes or to make out, saw some strange guy with his pants down and called the cops or told their parents who called the cops. I was familiar with the area where he camped and could easily see that happening, especially during a summer weekend. Indeed, some local woman rode her bike through his apparently no-so-stealth camping spot. And the cops down there don't mess around.

indyfabz

Yeah. That's why a lot of owners of places that don't stay open year round have other jobs. I know one owner who has a relatively small place in an area of PA where the property taxes have to be quite high. He has a full time job apart from running the campground. Most of his sites are seasonal, but he does have a few other sites. The guy is cool. Don't know what he charges car campers, but show up by bike and it's only $10/night.

hhk25

In Ontario, we get charged the same as someone pulling in with a big truck and a 20 foot trailer - $36.50 plus tax. Last summer, I camped exclusively in a hammock, never lit a fire and left my site before 8am. Didn't matter. $36.50.

spinnaker

LOL Exactly what I wanted to do! But Robow convinced me to ride on. He even called the Ohiopyle campside and they told him how close hey were to the trail.

In hindsight we should have spent the energy just riding on to Confluence.

dancier

West Yellowstone was full, no hotel/motel accommodation and only one tent site left at $50, no good to a group of five. Went and spoke to the Sheriff and he said camp at the roadside stop out of town, two more joined later. https://goo.gl/maps/VAPgJ9Cs9vj

Leebo

Camping on private land without permission? No. Making use of a state forest, park, recreation area or such that the public has access too? that's different. As said, leave no trace, be respectful.

samanthadavies

Those are ridiculous rates... It would be less expensive to stay in a hotel

DropBarFan

I was a bit dubious about that but just now I checked hotel rates in Williamsburg VA nearby the last campground I stayed at: decent hotels as low as $38 which is not much more than the $32 tent/electric camp site. Of course those hotel rates are off-season, they probably double in the warm weather.

spinnaker

When is the last time you were there? 20 years ago? The cheapest I am seeing for hotel rooms in Williamsburg is $60 that is without tax and right here in the middle of winter.

I really hate to see your idea of "decent" for $38 for a hotel in Williamsburg.

saddlesores

the googles are your friend, my friend.
just type in "cheap hotel williamsburg va"
you get a googles map with cheap hotels showing.
click it!
on the top you can move the slider bar to pick just the cheapest.
right now?

family inn and motel six, both about $40
america's best, travelodge, econolodge at $46

if you gots a smartyphone, you can use priceline or agoda,
find some real bargains while on the road.

agoda has the howard johnson and super 8 for $38
and the motel 6 for just $36

spinnaker

$40 isn't getting you anywhere near a "decent" hotel today in even a medium sized town. But I guess it depends on your definition of "decent".

BTW set the date to a more decent time of the year and hen look at the prices.

jonc123

Just for fun, I looked at some of the reviews of these motels on Google and Tripadvisor. Quite entertaining.

fietsbob

Get your Passport! go see some other countries with lower costs of living, or even more used to seeing younger, gap year

Touring , backpacker folks.. I toured Ireland for 2 months +, Then went to Scotland..

saddlesores

i am confused.

OP was complaining about the "obscene" cost of one private luxury RV resort
located at the entrance to a national park, developed for retirees with no problem
dropping $100k on a class A motorhome, when he could have gone into the park
to find $15 campsites which were developed for actual....camping.

others noted the cost of private campgrounds in a tourist spot cost nearly as much
as a hotel room, in the city near the attractions.
($32 vs $38 for two national chains in JULY.)

and now we're arguing about the market rate of "decent" hotels in a high-volume
tourism zone in the high season?

what is "decent"? are we now attempting to compare a $32 campsite to the
$250/nite great wolf lodge? is that not "decent" enough? how about the
$420/nite williamsburg inn?

jamawani 

Saddlesores - I would appreciate it if you would not infer my motives or interpretations.
And I know a heck of a lot more about Yellowstone than you do.

I have lived in Wyoming and Montana for nearly 30 years.
I have cycled every legal paved and unpaved road in the park -
and have hiked in the backcountry.

This is far more than a place for people to park their $250,000 RVs outside the park.
Because it is reflective of a way of "consuming" nature that becomes entrenched.
Not just in gateway communities, but in the National Park Service, itself.

In the 30 years I have been riding in Yellowstone, very little has been done to accommodate cyclists.
However, in those 30 years nearly every repaving has included expanded 40-ft pull-thru parking.
Hmmmmmm. I wonder who that is for?

BY DEFINITION - Building more and more 40-ft. pull-thru places does one of two things:
1. Reduces the number of spaces that had existed previously for general parking.
Or 2. Requires the paving of additional land within the park - esp. at major features.

Glacier National Park, Zion National Park have restrictions on cyclists using park roads.
The justification is that park roads are too narrow.
Have bicycles gotten a lot wider? Or have RVs?

"Build it and they will come" has applications positive and negative.
The campground in question is an example of this.
We are fast approaching a time when our national treasures will be accessible only to the well-heeled.

saddlesores

have you actually read the OP?

some guy starts a thread about "obscene" rates for camping.
the title alone tends to lead to inferences.
obscene is bad, right?

then he gives the rates. no tents, cyclist have to rent cabins.
confused me, cause i thought it was about camping fees.
but it's not a campground at all. didn't see the point of
complaining about the fees for renting a cabin in what is
not a campground. would make as much sense as complaining
that the hilton won't let you camp on their lawn.

the dude ended with "Why do they charge this much?
Because they can."

certainly implies it's a bad thing.

indyfabz

****

Erick L

The quality of a campsite is inversely proportional to its cost.

Camping in our parks (called Sépaq) were coming close to 40$ with the park entrance fee. I left comments in person and online every chance I got, asking for better bike sites. I thought they might do something on the most popular bike route. Then a few years ago, every park got a few sites for cyclists, available without reservation and relatively close to showers and water. Now they're already back up to 20$ including entrance fee and taxes but you get good quality sites in a park. You still need quarters or loonies (dollar coins for you Yanks) for showers and they never tell you. Leaving comments can lead to change. Private campgrounds range from ~12$ for biker sites to ~40$ for large sites without discount.

I sent this photo to show how ridiculous such a large site is for bikers. You can't even see the whole site!

spinnaker

It is called discussion. Discussion morphs back and forth. Where is the confusion********** You make it sound like this is your first time on bike forums or any forum for that matter.

jamawani 

Which is unfortunate - because there are some serious issues surrounding public access to Yellowstone and other national parks.

1. The proposed increase in entrance fees impacts pedestrians and cyclists disproportionately.
Current fees for 7-day entry are $30 per vehicle, $10 per pedestrian or cyclist.
The proposed increases are $70 per vehicle, $30 per pedestrian or cyclists.
(Just more than doubling for cars; tripling for bicycles.)

Not only are the rate increases exclusionary, the biggest increases fall upon users with the least impacts.
The key language of the NPS enabling legislation in 1916 is for the agency "to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and wildlife therein, and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations."

Who does that include? All Americans or just those who can fork out the moolah?

2. The costs of concession operations continues to skyrocket as an underfunded National Park Service seeks to find fund sources in any manner possible. The cost of a room in Yellowstone - operated by concessionaire Xanterra - is in the $400 to $500 per night range. Obviously, the average American family cannot afford two nights; thus, their only options for visiting are camping in the park, the fees of which have doubled over the past decade, or driving through in one day while staying some distance from the park. Meanwhile, Yellowstone and other destination parks complain about being deluged by cars. Meanwhile, Yellowstone has restricted Adventure Cycling Association tour groups on the grounds of safety.

3. An increasing number of national forest campsites outside of Yellowstone and other national parks are restricted to "hard-sided units only". The justification is that there is the potential for wildlife conflict - esp. in bear country. Odd, but people camped in tents for decades with minimal conflicts until the arrival of luxury RVs and the political sway of their owners. No tent camping is permitted for 15 miles east of the Yellowstone East Entrance and for a similar distance outside the Northeast Entrance.

<<<>>>

I have a doctoral level education in environmental history. I have studied Yellowstone and other western national parks for decades. I have had frank off-the-record discussions with current and former park employees.

There is a well-established pattern of preferential access that has been ongoing for more than a decade.
Although the campground in question is outside of the park, it required local and county approvals and is reflective of this same trend. *And although the campground mentioned at the start of this thread is private and just outside of Yellowstone, I doubt the RV owners choose to bike or walk through the park.

There is an overwhelming change in access for cyclists since my first tour in 1987.