Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Dangerous Descending

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Dangerous Descending

Old 08-18-19, 03:17 PM
  #1  
spelger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,275

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1124 Post(s)
Liked 1,171 Times in 682 Posts
Dangerous Descending

While ascending one of my favorite hills here in Reno another rider was descending. It is a long descent and windy. I was ascending on the inside of a curve which would put the descender on the outside. Because he had visibility of what was ahead he had crossed the yellow line and was now in my lane. Not sure I liked this, and in this case the yellow line has the sort of divots (like rumble strips along some highways) installed to make sure drivers are aware that they are crossing the line.

I thought this was pretty risky. I can't even image what that must be like to cross over at 40+. What is your take on this?
spelger is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 03:39 PM
  #2  
ChinookTx
Full Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Posts: 293

Bikes: Lynskey GR270

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 49 Posts
It's his skin... If he wants to leave it on the pavement, let him do it. Did he endanger you while doing his "stunt"?
ChinookTx is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 03:50 PM
  #3  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,462
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3638 Post(s)
Liked 5,318 Times in 2,703 Posts
Pretty sure a cyclist shouldn't cross the center line, same as a car. A friend did that in a moment of inattention. He took the mirror off an oncoming pickup. He was seriously injured and had to pay for the damage to the truck. He never questioned that he was at fault.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 08-18-19, 03:58 PM
  #4  
ChinookTx
Full Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Posts: 293

Bikes: Lynskey GR270

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Tell me you never cross the yellow line on a winding road while driving your car... I do so every morning when I don't see anyone coming in the opposite direction. Key words in OP's post: "Because he had visibility of what was ahead "
ChinookTx is offline  
Likes For ChinookTx:
Old 08-18-19, 04:13 PM
  #5  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,462
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3638 Post(s)
Liked 5,318 Times in 2,703 Posts
I don't. Why would I?
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 08-18-19, 04:35 PM
  #6  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,497

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1477 Post(s)
Liked 637 Times in 436 Posts
Originally Posted by ChinookTx
...Key words in OP's post: "Because he had visibility of what was ahead "
So he had visibility and saw someone in front, it's ok to cross to the other side and endanger someone in the case of someone losing control?
Daniel4 is offline  
Likes For Daniel4:
Old 08-18-19, 04:45 PM
  #7  
Shimagnolo
Senior Member
 
Shimagnolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Posts: 9,086
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3355 Post(s)
Liked 5,434 Times in 2,812 Posts
This happened here 3 years ago when a cyclist crossed the centerline on a descent: https://kdvr.com/2016/03/16/former-p...taff-mountain/
Shimagnolo is online now  
Old 08-18-19, 05:31 PM
  #8  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times in 569 Posts
There's a hotly-contested shop ride in my area where those center line divots were recently installed.

It's got to have slowed the times as it's now more risky to cross the center line on the long, winding descent.
woodcraft is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 05:47 PM
  #9  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 1,057 Times in 631 Posts
My take? Not OK to go into your lane, if he saw you in advance. Maybe you surprised him.

I assume the other rider had a turn the swept to the left? Those are always tricky in the mountains, when you can't see if there's anyone coming in the other direction or not. You always need to assume there is someone coming, and not only that, take into account that even if your bike tire stays on your side of the double yellow, your bike and body may lean a foot or two over the line and into oncoming traffic.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 06:03 PM
  #10  
anon06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 109

Bikes: Giant Cypress

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
My first thought was that, yes, it's not cool for others to move over into the opposite lane, scaring others. But, after thinking about it and how I've seen Tour de France and Olympic cyclists on T.V. cycling down mountainous routes, it's difficult for me to know why the cyclist did that, whether, because it was windy and mountainous, they thought it might be wise to stay away from the edge of the road, if it was on the side of a cliff (as strong wind can make a bike more challenging to control).

Last edited by anon06; 08-18-19 at 06:08 PM.
anon06 is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 06:17 PM
  #11  
Spoonrobot 
Senior Member
 
Spoonrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,049
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1210 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 107 Posts
Here's the thing with descending:

1. Everything happens faster than you expect.

2. You never have the visibility you think you do.

Of the ways recreational cyclists die, crossing the center line accidentally on purpose while descending is fairly common one. Most people are not practiced or prepared for cornering on a downhill slope at 35 mph+ and will understeer into oncoming traffic as they fight the feeling of excess g-force required to complete the turn. I think what that rider did was unsafe and endangered you unnecessarily.

Last edited by Spoonrobot; 08-18-19 at 06:50 PM.
Spoonrobot is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 06:21 PM
  #12  
Shimagnolo
Senior Member
 
Shimagnolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Posts: 9,086
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3355 Post(s)
Liked 5,434 Times in 2,812 Posts
Another reason not to cross the centerline: Traffic paint does not provide the traction of bare asphalt.
And the newer the paint is, the slicker it is.
I learned that the hard way on a motorcycle.
Shimagnolo is online now  
Likes For Shimagnolo:
Old 08-18-19, 06:46 PM
  #13  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,007

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3342 Post(s)
Liked 3,443 Times in 1,741 Posts
The only times I will cross the center line:

1. Passing a slower cyclist or vehicle on a descent, but only if I can see far enough ahead. I crossed the center line today to pass a slower cyclist while descending Kings Montain Road, in a straight section of road.

2. Avoiding bad pavement or debris in my lane, but only if there is no clear path in my lane.

Through a curve, I like to follow the path that a car tire takes (either left or right tire). That tends to be the part of the roadway that's the cleanest. I do not like finding debris in my path while angled over in a turn! Anyone who descends Mount Hamilton Road is familiar with rocks in the lane.

I've descended behind riders who cross the center line on left bending curves. They are no faster than me.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse


terrymorse is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 08:14 AM
  #14  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by ChinookTx
Tell me you never cross the yellow line on a winding road while driving your car... I do so every morning when I don't see anyone coming in the opposite direction. Key words in OP's post: "Because he had visibility of what was ahead "
Line of sight is critical. Unless I can see far ahead and know my entry and exit points, I am a total wimp. Learned this on my Ducati many years ago.
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:
Old 08-19-19, 08:18 AM
  #15  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
Another question....where on the curve was he? If he was taking the "racer's line" he may have been at the apex and pointed to outer edge of his lane. I wasn't there so I am only guessing.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 08:29 AM
  #16  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
I don’t think crossing the centerline is a big deal, except that in this case there was someone (the OP) in the other lane.

I cross the center all the time on certain curvy roads (on my bike and in my car) if I have good visibility, but I would not do so if there was anyone in the their lane, even a cyclist over to the side.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 08-19-19, 08:44 AM
  #17  
Phil_gretz
Zip tie Karen
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,006

Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times in 806 Posts
On a closed course for an organized or sanctioned event, the descending rider can use the whole road. On an open course with two-way traffic, he cannot. As another said above, "it's his skin."
Phil_gretz is offline  
Likes For Phil_gretz:
Old 08-19-19, 09:31 AM
  #18  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,555
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 841 Times in 475 Posts
I'll cross the center line, sprint past a car, then fly around the next switchback. It depends on the road and visibility.

Anyone who makes always/never rules sucks.
rosefarts is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 11:52 AM
  #19  
Caliper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 990

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 385 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by ChinookTx
Tell me you never cross the yellow line on a winding road while driving your car...
Unless I'm avoiding potholes, debris, or other hazards... No.

Besides, on a windy road the fun is in the corner. Why would I cut the corner and make the road less fun? The point is to clip the apex, not drive over it.
Caliper is offline  
Likes For Caliper:
Old 08-19-19, 12:52 PM
  #20  
Clyde1820
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,944

Bikes: 1996 Trek 970 ZX Single Track 2x11

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 610 Post(s)
Liked 558 Times in 423 Posts
IMO, on any multiple-user path or roadway that has specified lanes, it also has specified usage rules (even statues) for everyone's safe use of the path/road.

Given the yellow lane lines, it sounds like the other rider was making a poor assumption he had the path to himself. But this was at the expense of everyone else around him. His assumption could have turned out to be fatal error, at 40+ mph collision speeds.
Clyde1820 is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 01:30 PM
  #21  
spelger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,275

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1124 Post(s)
Liked 1,171 Times in 682 Posts
Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
On a closed course for an organized or sanctioned event, the descending rider can use the whole road. On an open course with two-way traffic, he cannot. As another said above, "it's his skin."

The more i think about this it is not only his skin. i don't even know if he realized i was there until we were eye to eye. I certainly did not see him until he was up close to me. and since i was going up i was in the car's right hand wheel area where there is no debris to worry about. when i hear a car coming i move over (main reason why i do not listen to music). if i had to guess the other rider was in the car's left wheel area. that is only about 2-3 feet between us. it didn't scare me but i was surprised about it. i wonder what would have happened had a small vehicle or motorized trike he was unable to see came around the corner. it is good visibility but the guard rail is quite large. i image he might have tried to move back to his lane with the other vehicle trying to split between us.

and no, i never intentionally cross the yellow line, bike or car.

i also don't know what a "racer's line" is so educate me on that please.
spelger is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 03:54 PM
  #22  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by spelger

i also don't know what a "racer's line" is so educate me on that please.
Basically this.....when entering (let's say) a left hand curve, you would stay to the right before the curve and then bend the bike down (left) to the apex of the curve and aim to the right as you come out of the curve. It basically "flattens" the curve making it "straighter" and, thus, faster. Here's a diagram I found:

https://drivingfast.net/racing-line/

I hope this helps.
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:
Old 08-19-19, 03:57 PM
  #23  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
FWIW if you are riding in a group of recreational cyclists be careful. Most have no idea of this concept and may try to pass you on the inside thus flirting with disaster. When you are riding alone, try it and see if it doesn't feel faster and safer.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 04:38 PM
  #24  
spelger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,275

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1124 Post(s)
Liked 1,171 Times in 682 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19
FWIW if you are riding in a group of recreational cyclists be careful. Most have no idea of this concept and may try to pass you on the inside thus flirting with disaster. When you are riding alone, try it and see if it doesn't feel faster and safer.
actually I do know that this is faster. I do this naturally while descending. Didn’t know there was a term for it.

Thanks!
spelger is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 06:27 PM
  #25  
Shimagnolo
Senior Member
 
Shimagnolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Posts: 9,086
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3355 Post(s)
Liked 5,434 Times in 2,812 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19
Basically this.....when entering (let's say) a left hand curve, you would stay to the right before the curve and then bend the bike down (left) to the apex of the curve and aim to the right as you come out of the curve. It basically "flattens" the curve making it "straighter" and, thus, faster. Here's a diagram I found:

https://drivingfast.net/racing-line/

I hope this helps.
That is what is taught in the MSF* Basic Rider Course.
(* Motorcycle Safety Foundation.)
Shimagnolo is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.