Cyclist0383

Aside from your 'it can happen!' cries. do you actually have any proof of high-end locks being picked? My our resident locksmith, crawdaddio can chime in on the ins and outs of picking high-end flat key locks. When one of my OnGuard locks froze up I me I happened to by very near to a good locksmith. I showed him the lock and key and he told me there was nothing he could do about it.

By the way, locks also get harder and harder to pick......

froze

Read my previous post about the contests if you want proof, these contests are all about who can pick the toughest locks the fastest, they start out with simple locks and work their way up until only a few contestants are left. The toughest locks are not even in the average person price range or homes, their mostly reserved for high risk rich people, which means the simple locks that the average everyday person have are easily picked.

Cyclist0383

What does a bunch of lock nerds have to do with bike theft? Are you being obtuse on purpose?

froze

What's a bunch of computer bike nerds have to do with riding a bike? Are you listening to what your saying? or are you obtuse on purpose? Did you come up with that "obtuse" word all by yourself or did you use a Thesaurus?

crawdaddio

I will chime in on lock picking.
I have been doing it since I was a teen and practicing it professionally for over 14 years.
I am not nearly as good as other locksmiths (they have contests at conventions), but I am alright.
I have never let a lock, safe, vault, or car that I was contracted to open get the better of me.
I always find a way in.

If there is a lock out there in production, in the world, someone can manipulate the tumblers or whatever locking cylinder system that is in place and pick it open.

That is a fact.

That being said, most bike thieves do not pick locks, they break them.

There are exceptions. I can immediately recall at least 4 bike locks that were picked open and left on the rack within the last 3 years (maybe more if I went back and checked the records at work). One was a simple pin tumbler padlock on a chain, one was an older 'ace' style tubular keyed U-lock, and the other two were current production Krypto series 2 U-locks with disk style lock cylinders (ALL current Krypto locks use this key system, as far as I know). It is impossible to say how frequently this actually happens in real theft situations due to the fact that most bike thefts result in the lock being stolen as well as the bicycle. But IT DOES HAPPEN.

It is unlikely that a bike thief will 'pick' or 'bump' your bicycle lock cylinder open.
They will most likely use bolt cutters, bottle jack, or an angle grinder on it. Much quicker. Less skill and practice involved.
However, I would absolutely not rule it out as a possibility in a large city full of mean, mean people.

Get bicycle insurance (homeowners, renters, etc...).
Problem solved.

degnaw

Assuming all reasonably smart bike thieves take the lock with them after "breaking" it, how exactly would there be 'proof' of bike lock picking?

freako

I'm glad the other two, crawdiddo and degnaw, chimed in on this picking business. I was little bit scared with all the negative feedback on the picking that anything I would add would just be crammed down my throat. So here it is. My friend had his bike locked PICKED and it was one of those Krypto NY Forgettaboutit, or something like that, U-Locks. How did we know it was picked? It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out when the lock was left behind unbroken but opened! Now he's fighting Krypto over the insurance coverage on it but Krypto is saying that since there is no proof of force on the lock that he accidently left it unlocked thus no coverage, even though the police report said it was picked!! Fortunately he has homeowners insurance, but Krypto's handling of this is piss poor. What's really nuts is Krypto has the lock but won't send it back saying it's their property now even though they refuse to pay the claim. The battle is not over.

Commando303

How can the police-report state the lock was picked, other than by merely reciting the victim's claim? I think it's insane for Kryptonite not to at least return the lock (or a replacement), though.

freako

I wasn't there when the bike was stolen thus didn't see the lock, but I would not be able tell if it was picked anyways, and not sure if the cop could tell either. I do know the person and seen him lock his bike numerous times and watched him yank on it everytime, not sure why he would do this when you can't remove the key without locking it properly anyways. I think it was picked.

I also think it's insane that Krypto hasn't returned the lock.

bellweatherman

The time has come for a full bike alarm, similar to car alarms.

nanter

hahahaha just what we need. Bike noisemakers.

Commando303

No, the time has come to make car-alarms illegal (I'm not being facetious): they do nothing but annoy people. Have you ever heard a car-alarm go off and done anything but think about whether or not you're feeling too lazy to get up and shut your window?

bellweatherman

Why not a bike alarm? Think about it. All we are talking about here is a theft deterrant. If a thief cuts the lock, an alarm goes off. Yes, everyone knows that, but the real feature is that the bike owner is notified that via a keychain alarm that his lock has been compromised. Just like a car alarm. Even if you don't hear the main alarm, the little beeper on your keychain goes off. That thief on the street has only a few moments before you come out there with a big can of whoop ass.

Cyclist0383

By the time the you got to where your bike was parked the thief and bike would be long gone, with your useless bike lock/alarm sitting on the pavement beeping away......

froze

Most if not all people ignore car alarms, what do you think they'll do when your bike alarm goes off? Run over to your bike and defend it with their lives? Maybe if your lucky they'll call the cops except most police departments will put this on low priority and respond maybe in an hour...do you think your bike will still be there? Oh I see, you think if your bike is screaming the thief will run, if that were true then why don't they run when a car alarm goes off? Instead they just take your stereo and ignore the alarm while passerbys ignore the thief.

zacster

We need LoJack for bikes!

rajman

I could have put in two answers 1) I use a high end lock and still have my bike, and OOPS! I did not read the last option carefully.

I have had low end locks (cheap U, lock on the garage door, or bike just not locked up - I've had about 4 bikes stolen overall) defeated. By the way I once had a bike stolen out of my garage that had a high end lock on mounted uselessly on the frame - the loss of the lock added insult to injury (I think I still have the key for that one).

I guess I should have answered with the majority - I have not had a high end lock defeated, and I still have the bikes I lock it with.

jackklas

Hilarious! [Not laughing at you, laughing with you]. Of course people are not going to protect another persons bike. You are right they just don’t care. However, DON’T TELL THIS TO THE THEIVES!

Further, the occurrence of a high-end lock being breached is quite rare. Again, I have never heard of a NYFU being breached while properly attached to the bike and bike rack. Good locks just don’t get breached if they are used correctly, it takes too much time and effort and the risk is too high. Yes, it can happen, but as this thread demonstrates it is quite rare. It would take a skilled thief, the right tools, the right spot, the right bike and the right time all coming together in one spot in one instance. Yes, it can happen, but it is rare. Remember this thread refers to high-end locks. Again, I have never heard of a kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit u-lock being breached. I have asked people to send me links of this taking place, or verifiable stories, every time the same thing, nothing!

Respectfully
Jack

mushrooshi

Bumping. I know, this thread is 2 months old, but this thread is really worth bumping in my opinion.

In a low-crime neighborhood, are thieves likely to bust a Kryptolok series 2?

Cyclist0383

It's not a great lock, and there have been several reports of them being broken. In my opinion the Evolution 4 lock is a lot better for the money, and comes with a Sold Secure Gold and ART 3 star rating, which is second from the top, and should be more than enough for a low crime area.

alhedges

No. By definition.

Really, there are three kinds of bike theft that go on: theft by professionals, opportunity theft, and vandalism theft.

Theft by professionals using tools is rare in most of the US, but is common in a few cities - NY, most obviously - and around a few college campuses. This is the type of theft where having a better lock matters. These are also areas where there is a real market for bike parts, so finding a way to secure them securely is also important.

Opportunity theft is what happens when the bike isn't locked, is locked to itself, or is locked to something easy to open, like a wooden slat on a picket fence. This is easily the most common theft, and can be avoided as long as you lock your bike properly with any reputable lock.

Vandalism theft is why you need to secure your wheels and seatposts even if you don't live in a city with a developed market for bike parts. Some people will undo your quick release and steal your seatpost or front wheel just because they can; not because they will be able to make any money from the theft. The thinnest cable will prevent this kind of theft.

mushrooshi

Pro thieves would do much better in Austin than in San Antonio. its only 1 hour away by car, and Austin, while not being as big as San Antonio, has a very liberal progressive community and a highly developed downtown, and probably has twice as many decent bikes as San Antonio. Besides, I heard it doesn't matter if it is a Series 2, Evolution, or New York; They will get the bike. Plus I am going to be parking in a highschool in daylight; teachers will be roaming around getting stuff in the parking lot, campus security will be there. Unlike the general public, teachers will question anyone on campus who look suspicious, and if they see some guys stealing a bike, they will take action. One nice bike on a rack of several dozen crappy bikes, in a parking lot swarming with security and cameras, no true professional will try to go after it. Only an amateur. Plus since public schools are federal property, its even more jail time. Not to mention, a set of professional bike thieves are better off stealing a student's car than the entire bike rack.


So will the Series 2 lock plus a $10 cable lock cut it. Don't kill me on the cable lock; its auxillary security for my wheels and saddle, and I got it when I was young, but don't you need two tools to break those?

This is the one I am most worried about, parking in a school. Kids will do anything to cause trouble if it isn't too much work. This is where the 5 year old Schwinn lock comes in I guess? But will a basic combo lock deter whack students, I heard barrel-combo locks are easy to break into. But yea, I am locking my saddle and front wheel too.

My LBS only has the standard size; no mini. Should I remove my quick-release front wheel and lock it too on the U-lock. That way, the cable lock can be used to secure seat, frame, and both wheels to the rack.

edit: As extra deterrent, can I wrap some thick tape, then some electric tape around my lock to make it look thicker? inb4 "That's what she said"

mustang1

My rb is worth £800 (with it's various upgrades). At work it's locked in underground storage which requires two swipe card doors to get through. It's monitored by surveillance cameras (plural, there are several) and many times a day the security guards wonder around and check each storage room individually, count the bikes and take serial numbers (we are issued with serial tags for each bike). On TOP of that, each bike must be locked, if not, a polite notice is attached to the bike. Security guards will also 'request' bikes are locked up with a chain or some other lock. My office is in the financial district.

At home, occasionally I'll leave the bike out on the street (a few streets away) locked with an Abus chain lock, a 20 year old U-lock (in bright pink, from my mtb days ), and also a thin wire lock for the saddle. The other two locks are for both wheels, and the frame. I live in a very nice area. Occasionally I'll leave the bike out with just the Abus chain lock.

At other times, the bike's in the garage.

The only time I've had a bike stolen was 17 years ago at uni. Was my brand new Raleigh Massif mtb. Got a new one thru insurance for £11 (my parents bought me the bike and insisted I get insurance). It was locked with an identical pink U-lock, the same one I'm using today.

nanter

Public schools are not federal property.

mushrooshi

Stealing stuff on a highschool is a surefire way to land fines or jail on yourself anyway. No pro will pull up right next to a highschool, infront of The Office, and steal a bike.

I think my bike is protected. From my LBS I got a kryptonite kryptolok. I thought it was the series two when I first went there, but I've learned its a Series 1, but its still probably going to be the most decent lock with the best setup. Infact, even though my bike is the most expensive/attractive on the rack, since everyone else pedals a Huffy or something, my bike is going to be secured with a mid-range U-lock and a cheapo (but deterrent) cable lock, the wheels, saddle, and frame all secure, while everyone else will use some Walmart cable lock or Walmart chain, and if they are smart enough, 1 or 2 more people will use a U-lock, probably some Bell or Walmart-version Onguard or Kryptonite. No self-respecting pro will be pulling up to my bike, and no random crackhead is going to be able to cut my u-lock either.

That also brings me to this: I was at a walmart, so I went to the toy section (It was improperly labeled 'Bikes'), and I saw these Kryptonite and Onguard U-locks. The problem was that no kryptonite or onguard lock was labeled on the website; the Kryptonite was the 'Kryptonite Xtreme' with a $500 anti-theft guarantee, and the Onguard was a 'Onguard OG-series', with no anti-theft guarantee.