"Do everything" frameset for internal hub
#1
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"Do everything" frameset for internal hub
Hey all - my first actual post after stalking these forums for years. So, hi!
I'd like to build a "do everything" bike for my wife, but mostly commuting (in Southern New England winters, too). After spending many hours researching, I've come to realize that the set of requirements makes for a pretty niche bike, and I don't think there are many frame options that fit the bill. So I'd like to ask all of you: any frameset recommendations that I should be looking into, but may have missed? I've covered a lot of the usual suspects that are in by budget (ideally less than $650 new for the frameset, though I'd love to find a used one). Here are those strange requirements:
Is there anything I'm missing, or have forgotten? If I break my no chain tensioner rule and include vertical dropouts, that opens up way more possibilities - maybe a Disc Trucker? Space Horse?
Thanks a ton!
I'd like to build a "do everything" bike for my wife, but mostly commuting (in Southern New England winters, too). After spending many hours researching, I've come to realize that the set of requirements makes for a pretty niche bike, and I don't think there are many frame options that fit the bill. So I'd like to ask all of you: any frameset recommendations that I should be looking into, but may have missed? I've covered a lot of the usual suspects that are in by budget (ideally less than $650 new for the frameset, though I'd love to find a used one). Here are those strange requirements:
- Steel
- Disc brake compatible
- Prefer no extraneous canti or DT bosses
- Horizontal-ish dropouts, since I want to install an Alfine 8spd IGH without an eccentric BB or a chain tensioner (yes, yes, many of your will recommend I spend the money on a Rohloff, I know I know)
- Derailleur hanger, in case she decides one day that she doesn't like the IGH
- Braze ons for both front a rear racks, it will eventually have a child carrier (with child, one presumes) mounted up front
- Road or CC geometry, since she likes going fast and being on her drops (this is the requirement that screws everything up - rules out cargo frames, Ogre)
Is there anything I'm missing, or have forgotten? If I break my no chain tensioner rule and include vertical dropouts, that opens up way more possibilities - maybe a Disc Trucker? Space Horse?
Thanks a ton!
#3
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You're on the right track there, but how about a SA 8? Easier to take apart and lube and replace parts, vs almost impossible with Alfine 8 or 11, but you can take their complete guts out to dip in oil.
Have a look at the YouTube videos, the Alfine needs more than a few special tools, However, it is pointless to do so as the parts are not available anyway.
They have the same GIs, 31 to 100.
The chainring is way smaller with the SA 8, so it's easier to cover the chain. The SA 8 is all overdrive, while the Alfine has 5th as direct drive. SA cranks at SJS are OK if you like 170mm.
I used a SA 5w a few years and loved it's speed, faster than my Rohloff14. Then the shift springs went goofy. It is very easy to take apart too, just don't lose track of the tiny pawl springs. A shell tool is a good idea to have.
Have a look at the YouTube videos, the Alfine needs more than a few special tools, However, it is pointless to do so as the parts are not available anyway.
They have the same GIs, 31 to 100.
The chainring is way smaller with the SA 8, so it's easier to cover the chain. The SA 8 is all overdrive, while the Alfine has 5th as direct drive. SA cranks at SJS are OK if you like 170mm.
I used a SA 5w a few years and loved it's speed, faster than my Rohloff14. Then the shift springs went goofy. It is very easy to take apart too, just don't lose track of the tiny pawl springs. A shell tool is a good idea to have.
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 03-01-19 at 01:01 AM.
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Cool, thanks both. I did look at the Troll, and I think that would be a good option to compete with an Ogre, but not sure my wife digs it. She really prefers drops, and I suspect it would then have too much reach. Also prefers 700c wheels for the speed.
The Sturmey Archer hub is an interesting alternative, though. I actually looked at those early on and basically found that no one used them (compared to Rohloff and Shimano), so figured there must be a reason. I guess I should reconsider!
The Sturmey Archer hub is an interesting alternative, though. I actually looked at those early on and basically found that no one used them (compared to Rohloff and Shimano), so figured there must be a reason. I guess I should reconsider!
#5
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#6
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#8
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Hm, ya, I like the look of the Wolverine. I had dismissed it earlier because I didn't really understand the dropouts, but I do now. Seems their 3.0 version has redesigned the droppouts, which I understand caused frame problems in much earlier models (don't quote me, might just be passing along gossip).
In head-to-heads, it seems like the Soma is a winner over the Surly, too. Too bad the latest model doesn't come in orange!
In head-to-heads, it seems like the Soma is a winner over the Surly, too. Too bad the latest model doesn't come in orange!
#9
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Hm, ya, I like the look of the Wolverine. I had dismissed it earlier because I didn't really understand the dropouts, but I do now. Seems their 3.0 version has redesigned the droppouts, which I understand caused frame problems in much earlier models (don't quote me, might just be passing along gossip).
In head-to-heads, it seems like the Soma is a winner over the Surly, too. Too bad the latest model doesn't come in orange!
In head-to-heads, it seems like the Soma is a winner over the Surly, too. Too bad the latest model doesn't come in orange!
#10
On yer bike
Also don't rule out bikes just because they lack a horizontal or sliding dropout system. PF30, BB30, and other bottom bracket standards are able to take eccentrics to provide chain tension. Usually they will have enough adjustment to accommodate a belt system if you go that route, depending on the exact combo of belt, chainstay, etc.
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Yeah, I was going to suggest just buy a Breezer Beltway until I saw you seem to definitely want drop bars. I don't know if they sell just frames, but you could buy a whole Breezer Beltway 8 and swap out the bars and cockpit. Or an 11+ and you've also got dynamo lighting and rack and fenders.
Did Breezer raise their prices? I seem to remember the top-end Beltway 11+ to be an absolute steal, and now at $1799 it seems more like just a fair price.
Did Breezer raise their prices? I seem to remember the top-end Beltway 11+ to be an absolute steal, and now at $1799 it seems more like just a fair price.
#12
Jet Jockey
If you use Alfine, the chain tensioner works fine, and you can just use vertical dropouts. Since you want a derailer hanger, why not?
#13
Banned
Bike Friday NWT .. Dropout swings, left one has disc mount, ISO.. 20" wheel so no TCO even smallest size..
Using Shimano Alfine hubs you can even order it as disc + belt drive, so no chain, no chain dirt..
Low bar so she can even wear dresses...
Bespoke. built to order..
even offered in Pink.. and shipped from Oregon , To Asia , not the other way ..
All on your list come out of Taiwan, probably built for export, in large numbers, by Maxway Ltd TW, (a very large OEM contract manufacturer)
..
Using Shimano Alfine hubs you can even order it as disc + belt drive, so no chain, no chain dirt..
Low bar so she can even wear dresses...
Bespoke. built to order..
even offered in Pink.. and shipped from Oregon , To Asia , not the other way ..
All on your list come out of Taiwan, probably built for export, in large numbers, by Maxway Ltd TW, (a very large OEM contract manufacturer)
..
Last edited by fietsbob; 03-02-19 at 01:45 PM.
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Specialized AWOL Expert frameset. No longer available so you’d have to track one down in the wild. Drop bar geo. IGH, chain, belt, Rohloff, derailleur, whatever. “Swinger” dropouts — an adjustable pivot design. Quick release only. Steel frame with dyno hub, rack(s), and fender mount accommodations. Overall it’s one of the most versatile frames I’ve ever seen. I own one, size L (not for sale).
Specialized AWOL Expert
-Kedosto
Edited to add: All are disc brake. Only 2016 and later are Rohloff compatible with OEM 2 plates. Easily fits tires up to 47 w/fenders, 50s without. 3 bottle mounts.
Specialized AWOL Expert
-Kedosto
Edited to add: All are disc brake. Only 2016 and later are Rohloff compatible with OEM 2 plates. Easily fits tires up to 47 w/fenders, 50s without. 3 bottle mounts.
Last edited by Kedosto; 03-03-19 at 11:38 PM.
#15
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I'd agree that there are few frames that do this well, and consider sturmey drum brake in place of disc for the rear. The adjustability of the horizontal drop outs really doesn't locate the disc well enough.
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Hey all - thanks for all your help on this. I pulled the trigger on a Soma Wolverine 3.0. Looks sweet.
Interesting comment about the disc brake alingment, but the sliding dropouts on the Soma are also the same bits of metal that you attach the brake to, so it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully.
Interesting comment about the disc brake alingment, but the sliding dropouts on the Soma are also the same bits of metal that you attach the brake to, so it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully.
#18
Senior Member
Yeah, but it's a bit of a hack getting horizontal dropouts and disc brakes to coexist.
The Surly horizontal dropouts need to have slotted IS disc brake mounts so the disc caliper can be slid back and forth depending in the wheel position. Actually, slid and rotated.
Of you just need to tweak the chain tension, you probably don't need to readjust the disc caliper position, it's probably close enough. And on the plus side unlike with Alternator dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets, you just need deal with the wheel nuts, not the dropout or BB pinch bolts.
The Surly horizontal dropouts need to have slotted IS disc brake mounts so the disc caliper can be slid back and forth depending in the wheel position. Actually, slid and rotated.
Of you just need to tweak the chain tension, you probably don't need to readjust the disc caliper position, it's probably close enough. And on the plus side unlike with Alternator dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets, you just need deal with the wheel nuts, not the dropout or BB pinch bolts.
#19
Senior Member
Yeah, but it's a bit of a hack getting horizontal dropouts and disc brakes to coexist.
The Surly horizontal dropouts need to have slotted IS disc brake mounts so the disc caliper can be slid back and forth depending in the wheel position. Actually, slid and rotated.
Of you just need to tweak the chain tension, you probably don't need to readjust the disc caliper position, it's probably close enough. And on the plus side unlike with Alternator dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets, you just need deal with the wheel nuts, not the dropout or BB pinch bolts.
The Surly horizontal dropouts need to have slotted IS disc brake mounts so the disc caliper can be slid back and forth depending in the wheel position. Actually, slid and rotated.
Of you just need to tweak the chain tension, you probably don't need to readjust the disc caliper position, it's probably close enough. And on the plus side unlike with Alternator dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets, you just need deal with the wheel nuts, not the dropout or BB pinch bolts.
#20
Senior Member
Do you have to loosen the caliper bolts just to remove the wheel? It looks like otherwise the disc would hit the caliper as you slid the wheel forward to get the chain off either the chainwheel or sprocket.
eta: It looks like the Surly trail bikes have the discs mounted on the other side of the seatstays and so the disc might not hit the caliper as it's slid forward.
eta: It looks like the Surly trail bikes have the discs mounted on the other side of the seatstays and so the disc might not hit the caliper as it's slid forward.
Last edited by Geekage; 03-11-19 at 12:43 PM.
#21
Senior Member
Do you have to loosen the caliper bolts just to remove the wheel? It looks like otherwise the disc would hit the caliper as you slid the wheel forward to get the chain off either the chainwheel or sprocket.
eta: It looks like the Surly trail bikes have the discs mounted on the other side of the seatstays and so the disc might not hit the caliper as it's slid forward.
eta: It looks like the Surly trail bikes have the discs mounted on the other side of the seatstays and so the disc might not hit the caliper as it's slid forward.