1987 Trek 400D Elance paint and cleanup advice
#51
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#52
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This project may not make economical sense but will be a great learning process. Plan to burn up time, more than money in the clean / preservation. If creative and first go around at this, - rubber (tires, tubes) brake pads, cables, bearings, bar wrap, toss a saddle on it, + shop supplies and chemicals figure $100.
Much has already been discussed here on components and such, but getting back to the frame issues. Focus first on that. BTW: Does the frame fit you?
Suggest to go full DIY. Use chemical Klean-strip or whatever the new branding of Bix. (Its not noxious but use throw away gloves.)
Read up on the DIY threads about painting. After the strip and corrosion removal, give it a rattle can paint with Rustoleum 2X. Stash it away for a few months and let it properly chemically react and cure.
In the meantime, go through every little bit of component and parts of them. Every pivot or hinge, bearings, etc.. Don't slack off and skip any thread cleaning.
Get to that point and determine if you wish to expand upon freewheel service and wheel construction.
Once you've got your baby all fresh and ready, enjoy the assembly process. Its all yours and give yourself a pat on the back. Don't sell it, regardless. Other bikes may come and go but you have something more in whatever that first build is. Use it or as an occasional guest loaner. Good luck!
Much has already been discussed here on components and such, but getting back to the frame issues. Focus first on that. BTW: Does the frame fit you?
Suggest to go full DIY. Use chemical Klean-strip or whatever the new branding of Bix. (Its not noxious but use throw away gloves.)
Read up on the DIY threads about painting. After the strip and corrosion removal, give it a rattle can paint with Rustoleum 2X. Stash it away for a few months and let it properly chemically react and cure.
In the meantime, go through every little bit of component and parts of them. Every pivot or hinge, bearings, etc.. Don't slack off and skip any thread cleaning.
Get to that point and determine if you wish to expand upon freewheel service and wheel construction.
Once you've got your baby all fresh and ready, enjoy the assembly process. Its all yours and give yourself a pat on the back. Don't sell it, regardless. Other bikes may come and go but you have something more in whatever that first build is. Use it or as an occasional guest loaner. Good luck!
Last edited by crank_addict; 02-19-20 at 02:07 PM.
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#53
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thanks for the advice. it ended up being a cassette (based on the park tools site, I didn’t know the difference). So I think it uses the FR-5.2 from Park tools based on their images.
I didn’t see much difference between a cone wrench and a normal crecent. Is there a reason I can’t use normal wrenches? I guess I’ll find out when the cassette removal tool comes. I’ll take a look at the front too. I’ll keep posting pics. This will hopefully be interesting for someone later to watch the whole process. Oh, and if it's a six-speed cassette, you'll need two chain whips, they worked differently back in the day.
Shimano 6 speed cassette
I didn’t see much difference between a cone wrench and a normal crecent. Is there a reason I can’t use normal wrenches? I guess I’ll find out when the cassette removal tool comes. I’ll take a look at the front too. I’ll keep posting pics. This will hopefully be interesting for someone later to watch the whole process. Oh, and if it's a six-speed cassette, you'll need two chain whips, they worked differently back in the day.
Shimano 6 speed cassette
But without being too forceful here, I'm pretty sure that's a freewheel. Does it say "MF" on the other side of the quick-release knob in the picture? That would be a surefire sign it's a freewheel.
Last edited by PugRider; 02-22-20 at 07:47 AM. Reason: typos
#54
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I dunno, looks like a freewheel to me. Shimano did briefly make some six speed freewheels--I worked on one for a friend's Univega. But you don't see them much. Photos can be deceiving, though. They are cheap but super-high-quality tools, so worst case you end up buying both. If you stick around in this crazy hobby for any amount of time you'll use both, frequently. And if it does end up being a cassette, you'll need a chain whip too. Another cheap tool you'll use a lot.
But without being too forceful here, I'm pretty sure that's a freewheel. Does it say "MF" on the other side of the quick-release knob in the picture? That would be a surefire sign it's a freewheel.
But without being too forceful here, I'm pretty sure that's a freewheel. Does it say "MF" on the other side of the quick-release knob in the picture? That would be a surefire sign it's a freewheel.
Are those the stock Maillard hubs?
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#55
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It is a freewheel, I drunkenly got the video wrong. So FR-1 is really the only option. I’m working on the bearings of the front wheel now, got a set of cone wrenches. I’ll post some pictures when I’m done playing with it.
I want new tires, what’s the thought on contential 4 seasons 700cx25? They are about $42 a piece. Should I do something that nice or go cheaper? Will I miss the 23s? Reviews say these run wide so 25s are really like 27s. Any suggestions would be nice. Was going to get 25-32 tubes to accommodate the wider tire run.
saddle suggestions?
Thanks, all!
I want new tires, what’s the thought on contential 4 seasons 700cx25? They are about $42 a piece. Should I do something that nice or go cheaper? Will I miss the 23s? Reviews say these run wide so 25s are really like 27s. Any suggestions would be nice. Was going to get 25-32 tubes to accommodate the wider tire run.
saddle suggestions?
Thanks, all!
Last edited by Kapurnicus; 02-22-20 at 03:06 PM.
#56
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Thread Starter
Front wheel
Feels gravely also
Maillard 500 hubs
Spindle out. Needs cleaning.
Will try to clean out the races in there.
This side didn’t fall apart. Will take them out. 10 each side. Looks like 3/16”
Feels gravely also
Maillard 500 hubs
Spindle out. Needs cleaning.
Will try to clean out the races in there.
This side didn’t fall apart. Will take them out. 10 each side. Looks like 3/16”
#57
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I want new tires, what’s the thought on contential 4 seasons 700cx25? They are about $42 a piece. Should I do something that nice or go cheaper? Will I miss the 23s? Reviews say these run wide so 25s are really like 27s. Any suggestions would be nice. Was going to get 25-32 tubes to accommodate the wider tire run.
saddle suggestions?
Thanks, all!
saddle suggestions?
Thanks, all!
You mentioned having a spinal fusion- I would suggest going with cushy 32s. IMO- skinny tires are for people who like to "suffer." Again, IMO- Panaracer Paselas are great tires, unless you want to throw more money at it- the Compass/Rene Herse tires are really nice.
Interesting that it's coming with Maillard 500 hubs- my 86 came with Maillard 600s.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#58
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Still slowly working on this.
did I order the wrong freewheel? Didn’t know how that worked. Just got a Shimano 6 speed With the same tooth count as mine, but this one has different spacing between the smallest and second smallest gears, which I’m pretty sure will throw off my indexing. I bought the mf-tz500-6. [Edit: actually, I bought MF-TZ20 and they sent me the TZ500-6. Not sure the difference, but I may send it back just because it isn't what I ordered].
besides that. Going well 2 pedals and a wheel done. Working on reassembling the rear wheel (hence the freewheel question). Everything is smooth sailing so far. Have to figure out which crank and bottom bracket tools I need next.
New freewheel
Front wheel hub
Both pedals
Rear wheel hub stripped. Looks like 9 ball bearings and this one is 1/4” balls. Every bearing is different on this thing haha.
The rear hub shaft and cones/washers/nuts cleaned and partially assembled.
did I order the wrong freewheel? Didn’t know how that worked. Just got a Shimano 6 speed With the same tooth count as mine, but this one has different spacing between the smallest and second smallest gears, which I’m pretty sure will throw off my indexing. I bought the mf-tz500-6. [Edit: actually, I bought MF-TZ20 and they sent me the TZ500-6. Not sure the difference, but I may send it back just because it isn't what I ordered].
besides that. Going well 2 pedals and a wheel done. Working on reassembling the rear wheel (hence the freewheel question). Everything is smooth sailing so far. Have to figure out which crank and bottom bracket tools I need next.
New freewheel
Front wheel hub
Both pedals
Rear wheel hub stripped. Looks like 9 ball bearings and this one is 1/4” balls. Every bearing is different on this thing haha.
The rear hub shaft and cones/washers/nuts cleaned and partially assembled.
Last edited by Kapurnicus; 03-04-20 at 10:50 PM.
#59
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#60
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The new freewheel will work just fine. If your shifters are indexed for six speeds, and you have a new Shimano six speed freewheel, it will work.
#61
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There’s really no way of knowing.
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#62
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Or maybe they have just as much experience as you, and they still choose to ride what they like, which might be different than you.
#63
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Thanks. Why are the gears not evenly spaced like my old one? What possible benefit could they have? And some of the cogs are more shaped like shark fins than the square heads of my old one. Everything about this is...odd.
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The teeth are shaped to be "ramps" to pick up the chain and assist shifting. Truly an improvement due to the advent of index shifting. You'll find it to shift faster and smoother than you're used to. One of the cheapest easiest ways to improve shifting on vintage iron.
#65
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Just saying someone who has a spinal fusion, can't bend far and asks if they'll 'miss 23s' would benefit from 32s on a bike that'll fit 32s.
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thanks for the advice. it ended up being a cassette (based on the park tools site, I didn’t know the difference). So I think it uses the FR-5.2 from Park tools based on their images.
I didn’t see much difference between a cone wrench and a normal crecent. Is there a reason I can’t use normal wrenches? I guess I’ll find out when the cassette removal tool comes. I’ll take a look at the front too. I’ll keep posting pics. This will hopefully be interesting for someone later to watch the whole process.
Shimano 6 speed cassette
I didn’t see much difference between a cone wrench and a normal crecent. Is there a reason I can’t use normal wrenches? I guess I’ll find out when the cassette removal tool comes. I’ll take a look at the front too. I’ll keep posting pics. This will hopefully be interesting for someone later to watch the whole process.
Shimano 6 speed cassette
#68
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Just remember that everything is little, lol
#69
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#70
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I Garaged this after our SIP order (hard lockdown in my area). I’m just now reassembling the rear hub. Slowly but surely. I bought the tools to disassemble the bottom bracket. I guess that’s next to see what’s in there.
I bought a new saddle, rim tape, tires (25mm gator skins) and tubes that’ll I’ll put on maybe tomorrow.
I’m eager to ride again so I might skip the paint and reassemble as is for now (after bottom bracket). That means every bearing system got refreshed except the fork(head). Haven’t looked into how to do that one yet.
Rear hub, new balls.
Reassembled.
I bought a new saddle, rim tape, tires (25mm gator skins) and tubes that’ll I’ll put on maybe tomorrow.
I’m eager to ride again so I might skip the paint and reassemble as is for now (after bottom bracket). That means every bearing system got refreshed except the fork(head). Haven’t looked into how to do that one yet.
Rear hub, new balls.
Reassembled.
#71
Senior Member
Looks great. Suit yourself, but most of us just leave off the plastic inner guard. It looks dorky and all it does is prevent an overshift from wedging the chain between the cluster and spokes, but this will never happen if you properly adjust the low-gear limit screw on the RD. But totally up to you.
- Mark
- Mark
#72
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Did decide to powder coat anyway. Stripped most of it, except can't get the gooseneck stem out of the head tube. Bolt came out easy enough. Is it clipped in some other way or just frozen from being aluminum (I think) on steel for years and years? I've doused in penetrating fluid, hit with a rubber mallet. Hit from underneath with a 200psi airhammer. Not a budge.
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Did decide to powder coat anyway. Stripped most of it, except can't get the gooseneck stem out of the head tube. Bolt came out easy enough. Is it clipped in some other way or just frozen from being aluminum (I think) on steel for years and years? I've doused in penetrating fluid, hit with a rubber mallet. Hit from underneath with a 200psi airhammer. Not a budge.
#74
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Pounding from the top breaks the wedge free. That was already loose. I finally got it. Turned it upside down after a good douse of penetrator and just went to all hell on the gooseneck with a rubber mallet. About 10 minutes in it budged a hair (had marked it with the air chisel). 20 more minutes and it was free.
I assume the rubber rings go right at the cones, looks like there's a lip there. They were so old they just crumbled apart and I found them on the floor.
I'll clean up the cones (they look good) and get new rings and circular ball bearing things for reassembly. Haven't googled those yet, but I assume I can just measure them and buy new ones.
I also need new little screws for the back wheel hub offset, they were bent and I had to break them to get them out. Haven't figured out how to find those online yet.
rear derailer fell off while hammer hitting. Found all the parts I think (the derraler itself is fine, the bolt came out and I was then in 2 pieces (one containing the 2 cogs and the other the big metal Shimano piece) and the bolt was on the ground. This has definitely been a mess. Had to drill out 2 of the screws holding my rack on because the heads broke off when removing.
bearing ring
screws I broke removing
It's out!
bearings disassembled
rubber things I assume go on the lips of the head tube cones
I assume the rubber rings go right at the cones, looks like there's a lip there. They were so old they just crumbled apart and I found them on the floor.
I'll clean up the cones (they look good) and get new rings and circular ball bearing things for reassembly. Haven't googled those yet, but I assume I can just measure them and buy new ones.
I also need new little screws for the back wheel hub offset, they were bent and I had to break them to get them out. Haven't figured out how to find those online yet.
rear derailer fell off while hammer hitting. Found all the parts I think (the derraler itself is fine, the bolt came out and I was then in 2 pieces (one containing the 2 cogs and the other the big metal Shimano piece) and the bolt was on the ground. This has definitely been a mess. Had to drill out 2 of the screws holding my rack on because the heads broke off when removing.
bearing ring
screws I broke removing
It's out!
bearings disassembled
rubber things I assume go on the lips of the head tube cones
Last edited by Kapurnicus; 08-16-20 at 02:57 PM. Reason: added images
#75
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Should I somehow clean the inside of the frame before taking to the powder coat guy? And if so how?
Edit: Decided to rinse throughly with a hose several times while spinning the frame. Then dry with compressed air extensively. Then apply frame saver on the interior. unless someone else has a suggestion.
Gross in there.
Bottom bracket is two caged bearings and a piece of plastic basically.
Edit: Decided to rinse throughly with a hose several times while spinning the frame. Then dry with compressed air extensively. Then apply frame saver on the interior. unless someone else has a suggestion.
Gross in there.
Bottom bracket is two caged bearings and a piece of plastic basically.
Last edited by Kapurnicus; 08-18-20 at 01:28 PM.