wphamilton

The articles argue against the effectiveness of hi-viz clothing, particularly at night.

I understand and applaud believing your own eyes regardless of some articles on the internet, but there has to be a reason, somewhere, for the discrepancy. I came to the tentative theory that while hi-viz does stand out more, standing out more isn't necessarily the most important factor with respect to safety. Avoiding blending in is the goal. Hi-viz does that, in the daytime, but not necessarily more effectively than other clothing.

Accordingly, my strictly personal practice (as opposed to advising anyone) reflects an agnosticism about the fluorescent cycling wear. I do have some, but I don't go out of my way to wear something hi-viz nor select the brightest colors for purchase.

timtak

I am not too sure about what I should see between my legs but, I can see the people in day-glow very clearly.

I do not wear day-glow clothes to my office job, despite the fact that people might bump into me. I did not wear day glow when I used to go jogging, especially because I use to jog on the pavement (sidewalk in American). Now that I ride my bike next trucks who overtake at about a metre's distance, I want all the visibility that I can get.

I have not seen the movie "Tron" but I feel sure that it is a non offensive movie, so I don't care if I were to be associated with it. There is no drawback in wearing day-glow/high visibility wear for me.

I want lights, reflection, and dayglow, and anything else to be safer (without sacrificing speed) because I want to be as safe as possible.

QuakerProf

This should be obvious, but the reasons for the difference in European and American bicycle fatalities is that European roads have thousands of miles of protected bike lanes, European drivers are more aware of and careful about cyclists, European cars are smaller in the event of collision, and European laws are generally more cyclist-friendly.

I wear a hi-vis road worker style vest over my jersey on my commute plus rear blinkie at all hours. At dusk, I also use a front light. The most interesting hi-vis jersey I've seen is Eleven Gear's, but it's 100 bucks, a bit rich for me.

fietsbob

Time for the Carhartt Parka Again High-Visibility Class 3 Waterproof Jacket

timtak

Thank you but, it is more the pants that I am having difficulty sourcing. I feel sure that my legs would stand out more than my torsoe due to the fact that I move them.

My options for high visibilty lycra pants appear to be very limited. Sewing a pad into the crotch of these takes longer than I thought it would. I need to work out how to use my wife's sewing machine.

Sewing the tape onto jackets and backpacks sounds like a good idea too
Amazon.com: 3M Scotchlite Reflective Tape, Silver, 2-Inch by 36-Inch: Home Improvement
"The silver that is worth its weight in gold"

79pmooney

I use both. They do different things. When a bright light is on you, the reflection is often much more prominent that the small, however bright, flasher. It also tends to make you look big and that attracts attention. People take pains not to hit big stuff. But when the light is not on you, like say an oncoming car that is about to turn left or one pulling out of a side street, reflective material doesn't do anything. By the time you are in their headlight beam, it is too late to avoid the crash.

Ben

fietsbob

chain schmuzz is black and so are my pants ,, add reflective ankle straps and reflectors on your Pedals.

I have no clue about Japan . other than, Like The British Isles, they drive on the left side of the road.

79pmooney

In daytime I wear mostly yellow jerseys. And since I started doing that , I have had many motorists thank me for being visible. That never happened before. I do notice that red is, in many lights for my eyes, often invisible in the middle of the day and is close to black at night.

Ben

chas58

You know what is required by law in Europe? Using Germany as an example you need dynamo driven lights and fenders and a bell on all road bikes, except light racing bikes. You also get a serious fine for driving or riding like people commonly do in the US.

There are lots of differences between the US and Europe in this area (and some of it is because bicyclists are different) :-)

chas58

I took most of my high vis reflective stuff back, because I rely on lights, and reflective tape on the bike. High vis doesn't help much in the dark. It is great during twighlite and during the day though. A high vis vest and/or jearsy does make me pop out to motorists.

The best high vis clothes are these (yellow in the day, reflective in the dark). I have one pair for the winter, and one with cut out fingers for warmer months. $12.98

Leisesturm

I just don't know... sometimes I think people get on here and argue the contrarian viewpoint just because they can. When I am out there among the heathen I don't see ANY cyclists without helmets, and front and rear flashers. Many run theirs day and night. Mine run night only. I see DOGS in hi-viz vests. I see runners with hi-viz shoes. People want to be seen at night. And guess what... they are! Yada yada unless you have light... that's the beauty of hi-viz. It doesn't take a lot. If the mouth-breather bearing down on you doesn't have his headlights on there WILL be enough ambient light for him to see you. Maybe not someone wearing all black on their way to a home invasion but you in your hi-viz bike jersey will be seen.

If it is so dark that a hi-viz jersey cannot be seen then neither will it be possible to safely navigate a motor vehicle on city streets. It gets that dark out in the country and a car running without lights under those kinds of conditions WILL crash long before it gets a chance to nail you. So be at peace. Not that I really believe there are still people who don't know that hi-viz is better than no-viz. It is one thing to think that low/no-viz isn't the worst thing a person can do if they are riding aware and taking personal responsibility for their own safety. It is quite another to claim that hi-viz is useless. You won't get anywhere with that argument anywhere where you can actually be identified (and punched in the face).

Anyway, hi-viz or not isn't the real issue. I don't always wear hi-viz, I don't always have a flasher but I always have one or the other. When I don't have the protection or a flasher or something highly visible I feel far more vulnerable than usual. It won't be a long trip, that's for sure and I will definitely modify my behavior to suit my invisibility. Wny? Because when drivers encounter cyclists riding at night with no safety gear they get VERY angry. Angry drivers are no fun to be around.

vol

Could it be this?

Leisesturm

Germany and The Netherlands, in particular have extensive bike-ways that elicit great envy among some of the Americans here. They should get over it. That isn't why European cyclists are safer. Mile for mile I am sure America has as extensive a Greenway network as any in Europe. How many of us can commute door to door on an MUP??? How many Germans can commute door to door via a fietsplatz? At some point bikes and cars MUST share common roadways and it is here, where the (bike) rubber meets the road that cyclist fatality metrics are born and the U.S. is trounced by Western Europe. Europeans drive differently from Americans and European laws are far stricter in governing how cars must behave around bicycles. That could be implemented here with minimal expenditure. Bikeways cost money and cyclists seem not to care that America is in a protracted class war and the Middle Class is losing it.

Colorado Kid

Came across this. ML Kishigo Hi-vis Leg Gaiters | GEMPLER'S I noticed this right off the bat when local road crew wore them. What does this list think of the Hi-Vis gaiters??

no motor?

Have you tried Foxwear? Tights & Pants - Foxwear | Custom Sized Sports Outerwear | Salmon, ID He made me a high vis jacket that was made to order for me (like he does for everyone else) and he might be able to get you what you want.

kickstart

I picked up a nice new vest at the thrift store in anticipation of the change in season. I've only worn it two days yet my wife and two coworkers have made comments about having seen me, and how much it stands out.
It would be foolish to think I'm any "safer" wearing it, but I'd does function as intended and that can't be a bad thing.

And for the record, it doesn't flap or flutter in the slightest, even on 30+ mph descents.

Leisesturm

I would not wear hi-viz gaiters in place of a hi-viz jacket, jersey or vest and if I had a decent hi-viz jacket, jersey or vest I wouldn't see the need for a hi-viz pair of gaiters. Do you see how that works? There is a very good reason that cycling tights, shorts, pants, booties and pretty much anything designed to be worn on or about the lower body on a bicycle is black! Maybe its me but I just don't think that 100% of a cyclist needs to be able to reflect a high amount of light at a driver in order for that cyclist to be safe. I just don't.

SamHouston

Others are alerted to my presence when I get out of the saddle by the piercingly bright sunlight flowing out of my...

no, actually I have a bit of 3m retro-reflective on this, that, the other that I wear, and stuff on my bike. But since leaving the city I do next to no cycling at night, and the roads I'm on are near abandoned most of the time except for people I have to wave/nod & smile at being neighbours.

I liked some retro reflective, some lights in the city, but I tended toward the danish model mentioned, if it was cycling specific gear it always had something, but I never went full vest n such & never had any problems. YMMV

vol

I saw someone on the bike wearing bright fluorescent lime color overshoes similar to this yesterday. It looked very cute . They add visibility, but I think one does need something higher than leg level that is hi-viz, around saddle or torso height. Too high, such as a hi-viz helmet or helmet light, it doesn't seem very useful, according to my observation.

P.S. I just find many cycling accessories that don't cost much to manufacture waayyy overpriced, maybe just because there will always be someone who buy them?

timtak

What is that? It gets dirty? I used white fleece last year but I did not mind it getting dirty.
Thanks. My wife says she will sew the pad into my lime greens.

Thanks! Not bad. But I would like something a bit more aero.

Great. I have something similar on order.

I think that if what I were typing were not to a degree contrarian, it would be obvious and there would be no point in typing it. I purchase other bike stuff but only mention the contrarian ideas, that may be edifying, or amusing, here.

Great idea. I had some white ones last year but the zips bust. I will try and source some high visibility shoe covers from China.

Found some and will make an order.
I agree, which is why I get most cycling accessories from China. Here are some high visibility overshoes. They will not be as warm as the ones you linked to but they are about times cheaper.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//1659...2863-YVBmyrbiQ
These will be warmer but not as warm as the ones on wiggle I guess
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/winte...74_75,201409_1

rumrunn6

I was driving so I can'r be sure but i got the impression it was integral to the shirt cuz it also has some other reflective accents on the front, that's what 1st got my interest, "oh that's an interesting shirt"

SamHouston

I used to ride with people who were derisive about things like chain marks on your leg, but they hardly ever wore pants on a bike, never commuted to an indoors job. It's difficult some days to ride 10k & arrive looking sharp or at least presentable. Although I don't have to do that anymore myself

RidingMatthew

I believe my wife is going to order one of these for my birthday which is coming up soon.

kickstart

Google dazzle camouflage......

mcours2006

I honestly don't know anymore what works better--high vis vs. reflective vs illumination, so I'm going to go with all three.

I'd been running just a set of lights--flashing white at the front and flashing red on the rear.

I just added some red and white reflective stripes onto the bottom bit of the rear fenders, as well as the front, though I'm not sure how useful the front ones are since they're mostly tucked behind the frame when view from behind.

I also put strips of white reflective tape on the crank arms so that when view from behind you can see there is motion. I think this is useful. Oh, and two small strips of reflective pieces on the back of the pedals.

And last, I put on a orange vest with yellow reflective stripes right over my backpack. The stripes run from front to back.

I'm sure there are other things I can do, like getting something reflective on the helmet. I do have a headlamp. Perhaps some spoke lights, but that might be overkill. Work in progress.