ochizon

I humbly disagree with the notion that equal w/kg the heavier rider is faster uphill. Im a LARGE rider (6'1" 230lbs) and i have friends with lower w/kg and i wreck them in flat terrain, but on climbs, as the grade increases, so does their advantage. Remember that when cruising in flats, weight is a non issue, but as the grade increases, the y-axis penalty influences your forward progress more and more.

I have a particular friend that i determined after a week of riding in a pretty hilly/mountainous area, that 3 1/2% grade or so is our level ground powerwise, haha

WhyFi

Weight is factored in to the equation in with the whole watts/kg thang. Your friends might have less absolute power than you, which would explain why you're faster in the flats, but the fact that they get up the hills faster says that they have better w/kg.

ochizon

based on the FTP tests, i have a better ratio (not that im strong in general cycling terms). But is it not true that as the grade increase, so does the impact of the weight? Where does the simple "w/kg" play into that? IMO w/kg is most relevant for acceleration, sort of like in drag racing.

any physicists in the house? haha

Cookiemonsta

I am big. Not in the sense that I am fat, but I am tall with broad shoulders and a large frame that would not go away no matter how skinny I become. I also do not find it aesthetically pleasing to be skinny, and do train my upper body in ways that do not exactly benefit cycling (apart from working on my core). In most sports this is considered an advantage. In cycling however, it does little for you. But I also do not think that it should hinder me that much. There are some larger guys in pro cycling that do quite well despite their size.

Also, in other cycling competitions, the cyclists look like beasts and even make me look like an underfed teenager. Gregory Bauge comes to mind

merlinextraligh

If he's dropping you on climbs greater than 3 1/2 %, he's putting out more w/kg on those climbs.

FTP measures the watts you can hold for an hour. So on long climbs it's going to be pretty predictive. On shorter climbs, not necessarily so. If we're talking a 2 minute climb, his 2 minute w/kg could be better than yours, even if your ftp is higher.

For example, I can handle short climbs with little guys pretty well because my one minute power is good. Sustained climbs, little light guys drop me like a rock.


And if he's dropping you on sustained steep climbs, his actual FTP/kg is higher than yours regardless of the tests, or he's better at actually sustaining his FTP in reality. Some people take tests better than others.

Sidney Porter

How much of hills comes down to technique with recreational riders? I also think that hills gets into some recreational riders heads and it becomes a mental issue rather than physical.

ochizon

I suck at math, but if im reading this correctly,

https://www.trainingbible.com/joesblo...r-formula.html

It looks like as far as the physics, for a given elevation over time, the power requirement increases geometrically in relation to a linear increase in weight.

(again, not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure this out for real)

svtmike

Flip your equation to have watts/kg on one side.

power / rider weight = bike weight x 9.8 x elevation gain

Assuming bike weights are identical, the higher w/kg will drive the higher elevation gain (i.e., first to the top).

waterrockets 

No, it's linear. Put some numbers into the equation. You'll see that twice the elevation gain in the same time requires twice the power.

For wind resistance, power required is cubic relative to speed. So, going x times faster requires x³ as much power. 200W at 20mph means 40mph is 2x as fast, so requires 2³ = 8 times as much power, or 1600W.

ochizon

ok, ok i get it now. Thanks guys!

rkwaki

****in engineers...
robo-engin-wookie
It's all greek to me all I can understand in the stupid sport is it hurts no matter what level you are.
I am like a greyhound when I ride, throw a rabbit in front of me and I'll chase it...

Andy_K 

I'd also note that when you're climbing gears come into play. You might be able to sustain X watts when spinning a mid-range gear at 90-100 RPM, but you're unlikely to be able to sustain that same power output if you end up in your lowest gear mashing at 40-50 rpm.

curbtender

Wait only becomes an issue when someone gets to the top before you...

StanSeven

That's me at 6' and 170. How come I don't look like him?

generalkdi

because you don't train like him.