PepeM

Just come to say that giving opinions without knowing anything about the matter always provides great entertainment. Great job, (almost) everyone.

PepeM

That's the gist of it. Cycling-wise, it was a non-event. But look at how it manages to get so many people that would never pay attention otherwise all riled up. Great way to get page views.

SJM205

Isn't that exactly what happened here? The leaders of one race must take priority over the last place rider of another.

PepeM

The "last place rider of another" was the entire men's peloton. The "leaders of one race" were the entire women's peloton.

indyfabz

How's Lewisburg treating you? Lots of snow?

PepeM

Not today, but overall yes, lots of it lately. Crazy cold today too. Can't wait for the spring to arrive. It might even make me want to ride my bike.

Doge

I agree with your assessment, which was the theme of my thread someplace else.
But the best races are the juniors in Belgium. Full gas from the start. They are gear limited to keep them together. They head right into buildings, hop curbs, run over parking blocks and keep going. This is why you get thousands watching 150-200 15-16 year olds in a day's race. And in many cases they are the only ones on the road.

The juniors this age do not know they will not be pros, and they have not figured out that that may suck as a job. They go all in. Most adults know it is rec / or a job.

Part of that is the LACK of teams. Teams control races. Without many, or a dominant team riders just go for it.

indyfabz

I feel you. The highest wind chill here in Philly yesterday was 14. We have, however, gotten a break when it comes to snow. What little we got melted/washed away almost as quickly as we got it. The 'burbs got hit harder.

jefnvk

Except, it wasn't a straggler off the back, it was the entire peloton being caught because a single breakaway rider in a different race was running a different strategy. They are two things that should have never come in contact with one another.

To me, it was the only realistic outcome of a bad situation that should have never happened with better planning, beyond letting her draft in the men's group for those next 12 miles.

SJM205

Not exactly. The lead woman was on a breakaway and as the video says, "The (men's) peloton was 'promenading,'" If they're choosing to go slow, let her race right through. Next time put a larger gap from the start.

Doge

Yes - but does it help cycling? I don't know. In general any news is good news, so I guess so.


There is only one class that matters in about every sport (Tennis seems to escape this), and that is the open class. Or the class that generates the most views and revenue. Everyone else should realize that the event is more likely for them, than the other way around. I'm sure race promoters are more than happy to cancel the races where only 1,2 or 4 racers register. In this example, do we know how big the field was she left? She got 17th? Out of?


I like the Fondo style - and so does the public it appears. You just dump everyone in is the way to go. Get 476 place out of 2,483 riders and you just look and see how many tandems, electric motors, or whatever folks like you placed. Everyone knows it is not serious, although many are serious about it.



Race classes matching social classes is the wrong way to go. Matching it on some get to use some drugs and some don't is also an issue.

While no one pays attention outside the open class, when it come to juniors we just teach them fairness and racing have little to do with each other.

A juniors a 13yo may be shaving and can ride away from the other kids, a 12 yo girl may be faster than the 12yo boy, a 17 year old in a pro race can use the same gears as the adult.

Those inequities are created by the age and gender classes. When you then limit equipment for some, and not for others I see that as a huge issue as that is where we train the kids fairness is not really part of cycling.

PepeM

She had a ninety second lead over the peloton. If you want to stop the men to let her though, well then you are letting all of the women's peloton through. If by "race right through" you mean that no race should have been neutralized, then you are asking for her to ride through a large group of cars, motorcycles, etc. I am sure that you can see the issue with such a scenario.

Putting a larger gap from the start would have been ideal, of course. The beauty of hindsight. Fwiw, what they did was as close to putting a larger gap from the start as you could get. The race had been going for ~30 km only when they stopped for ten minutes and then restarted the race. That breakaway was going nowhere. While saying that the race was not affected would obviously be false, the effect on the final outcome was very likely none.

SJM205

Agreed, should have never happened and they will definitely use a larger gap next time. Auto racing mixes classes on the same track and I've raced motorcycles of different classes on the same track. I would rather see her gain the advantage by joining the men's peloton than be punished for "racing" in a race.

PepeM

People that like cycling will still like it. Those who don't care for cycling will shake their heads for a minute, maybe tweet something about it, and go back to not caring about it.

PepeM

She wasn't really punished. She was allowed to keep the gap she had on the peloton when the race restarted. She also wouldn't have gained any advantage by joining the men's peloton, since that peloton was moving slower than the women's peloton.

jefnvk

Mixed classes is fine, if the event is set up that way to begin with. It would be no different than @TimothyH's gravel races, where everyone is racing together from the get-go and everyone understands that to be the case. Thing is, this race wasn't set up like that, mixing them would have resulted in some minority number in both being affected, either positively or negatively.

HAD you let her race with the men, and she placed highly, then the results would have likely been protested by other competitors (at least, I presume protesting results is a thing in bike racing too).

PepeM

That wouldn't have happened though. Had no race neutralization occurred, she would have been stuck trying to ride around all of the team cars, motorcycle support, etc. Even if she made it to the men's peloton without being hit by a motorized vehicle, then she would have been stuck at the back end of a 100+ group that was moving slowly. Then, 90 seconds later, the women's peloton would've caught up to the men's peloton. What then? Have them race around the cars/motorcycles? Let both pelotons (and their respective support vehicles) merge? Surely everyone who has ever watched a bicycle race sees the complete absurdity of this, right?

CliffordK

I've heard the same complaints about basketball.

Men's (collegiate) basketball is all about strategy. Essentially playing "keep-away", and running down the clock.

Women's (collegiate) basketball is running the ball down the court and putting it in the hoop. I think they may also have a shot clock that keeps them moving.

SJM205

Sport is so much more interesting when something unusual happens. Tyler Hamilton's breakaway with a broken collarbone, Michael Schumacher winning a race with only 4th gear, a barefoot marathoner, Cubs World Series...

The only reason we even heard of this race is because of what happened. The directors saw what was developing and could have radioed the mens' teams to tell them to pick up the pace. Maybe the threat of losing their support vehicles and being passed by a girl would embarrass them into action. Sure, her breakaway would probably fail, but the beauty of sport is to hope "what if?"

CliffordK

Ok, here's a bird's eye view of the neutralization per Strava. I put a few links into the race in Post #88

I don't have a Strava upload for Nicole Hanselmann, so one has to assume she is somewhere in the gap between the women and the men. There may be other riders not reporting on Strava, including potentially more stragglers behind the men.

The women did very well in general on those descending rollers (MP15 through MP25). The men had some of their slowest pace of the race through that section.



The races continue together until mile 37, at the end of the plateau above, then the two separate. The last segment is shared between races, but the women finised long before the men came through.

chicagogal

She got 74th place out of 141 starters in a 123km professional bike race with many of the best female professional cyclists in the world.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/oml...-2019/results/

CliffordK

True...

Threaten the men with disqualification if they get passed (or any of the women got within 50 yards/meters of them), and one might have seen quite a horse-race.

My guess is the gap would have naturally widened on the next hill after the neutralization point anyway, but could have closed once again on the plateau above.

The support vehicles could easily have dropped 5 minutes back for the next 10 miles, and then caught up later. Flat tire or crash ==> Neutralization?

Perhaps get some TV crews mixed into the Women's race.

Stadjer

That's a good thing, because it can help women's cycling to attract their own crowd.

It is a different sport though. I'm not the world's biggest cycling watcher either, but you have to take a sport as it is. I like F1 better, but there are always 'F1 fans' complaining that they don't go full throttle the whole race and there should be lots of overtakes. No, that's not F1, it's not a sprint race but because of it's distance a semi endurance race and overtaking should be hard. If you don't like it, don't watch. Same with men's cycling, there is an endurance element to it, which allows for successfull early escapes and failing attempt, but also for a few boring hours of legs saving. That's why all the Tour de France reporters get 'the castle book". It's slow TV leading up to a short climax most often, also for the one day spring races in Belgium like this.

It works for the Belgian fans, and I truly don't know any sports fans more genuine than Belgian cycling fans. It works for practical reasons to, a lot of races and most big tour's stages are on workdays, and most fans will have finished work just in time to watch the final of the race. When they have days or weeks off they take it as slow tv just listening while doing somethin else or they listen cycling radio until something happens. Not my cup of tea most of the time, but not my call either.

Same with the women's race on the same day. The incident was discussed in a Belgian cycling show yesterday and all the guests including Tom Boone agreed it helped women's cycling to join the men's event and have their race at the same day. They were all male btw, but I don't doubt they all mean well for women's cycling.

CliffordK

One can't speculate on the alternative outcome. Nicole Hanselmann got an early lead. At some point she would have seen the men's entourage ahead and decided to close the gap. There were some long straight stretches where they may have been visible on the horizon, even a few miles ahead.

My guess is that she would have continued to pound the course another 10 or 15 miles until MP37 or so, the bottom of the descent after the men/women separated.

At that point, the race might depend a bit on how much of a gap had formed.

There were a couple of chasers ahead of the peloton. They quickly fell back into the peloton, but that may have been a team decision rather than a personal choice. If enough of a gap had opened up, a 3-person breakaway could have been supportable.

Of course, there was a lot of road and a lot of hills ahead.

CliffordK

I'm sure it gets a much greater audience when one group passes, then 10 minutes later the next group passes.

It likely helped PR a lot when the women actually caught up with the men, even just for a moment.