Electric Citi Bike Brake Issues?
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Electric Citi Bike Brake Issues?
(I did a search for this and nothing came up, so my apologies if this is being discussed elsewhere)
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/04/...under-the-bus/
So it looks like all of the electric Citi Bikes have been pulled for safety reasons. Personally I wasn't surprised to read this, having seen more than a few of them in the wild, but these cited "brake issues" are baffling to me. Does anyone know any specifics? I assume that the brakes themselves are fine, and the issue is around the center of gravity for the bike design, but I really don't know.
I did witness an electric Citi bike rider very nearly go over the bars after a pedestrian walked out in front of him, but he was going rather fast and my first thought was that he was a little over-zealous and clumsy with his brake application.
I know that @noglider has ridden these bikes quite a bit, so I'd be curious to hear his thoughts.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/04/...under-the-bus/
So it looks like all of the electric Citi Bikes have been pulled for safety reasons. Personally I wasn't surprised to read this, having seen more than a few of them in the wild, but these cited "brake issues" are baffling to me. Does anyone know any specifics? I assume that the brakes themselves are fine, and the issue is around the center of gravity for the bike design, but I really don't know.
I did witness an electric Citi bike rider very nearly go over the bars after a pedestrian walked out in front of him, but he was going rather fast and my first thought was that he was a little over-zealous and clumsy with his brake application.
I know that @noglider has ridden these bikes quite a bit, so I'd be curious to hear his thoughts.
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So it looks like all of the electric Citi Bikes have been pulled for safety reasons. Personally I wasn't surprised to read this, having seen more than a few of them in the wild, but these cited "brake issues" are baffling to me. Does anyone know any specifics? I assume that the brakes themselves are fine, and the issue is around the center of gravity for the bike design, but I really don't know.
In short, the roller brake is well (manual) and historically (all over the net) documented to require being paired with a hub with "power modulator" clutch capability to avoid excessive braking; but the chosen hub motor didn't have that manufacturer-required capability for use with a roller brake.
Last edited by UniChris; 06-24-19 at 09:24 PM.
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I think I only rode the Cit-E-Bike four or five times. I didn't experience the problem. It only happened to people a few times, certainly enough to pull them off the streets. I think it was a mistake to provide a front-hub motor. I hope they don't do it again.
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I don't ride my bicycle on sidewalks public paths etc. Citi bike threw 1000 ebikes out there and there was a brake problem. The learning curve on a first time user had to be part of the problem. I couldn't find a detailed description or picture that explained the problem.
What exactly was the problem with a front hub motor?
I think I only rode the Cit-E-Bike four or five times. I didn't experience the problem. It only happened to people a few times, certainly enough to pull them off the streets. I think it was a mistake to provide a front-hub motor. I hope they don't do it again.
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This was pretty much all covered in the existing citibike thread linked above, especially the specific brake incompatibly of the hub motor that lead to them being removed from service.
Last edited by UniChris; 06-25-19 at 01:20 PM.
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This was pretty much all covered in the existing citibike thread linked above, especially the specific brake incompatibly of the hub motor that lead to them being removed from service.
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You assume incorrectly. Details of the incompatibility of roller brake and front hub motor previously covered here: https://www.bikeforums.net/northeast...tarted-30.html
In short, the roller brake is well (manual) and historically (all over the net) documented to require being paired with a hub with "power modulator" clutch capability to avoid excessive braking; but the chosen hub motor didn't have that manufacturer-required capability for use with a roller brake.
In short, the roller brake is well (manual) and historically (all over the net) documented to require being paired with a hub with "power modulator" clutch capability to avoid excessive braking; but the chosen hub motor didn't have that manufacturer-required capability for use with a roller brake.
I read the entire thread, and the only thing is what you just mentioned: some "power modulator" that essentially acts as super simple anti-lock mechanism. So people were locking up the brakes, and essentially they are blaming the brakes as being too powerful?
I wonder what percentage of the electric Citi Bike riders had ever hit 18mph on a Citi Bike before (when not going downhill)? I wonder what percentage had practiced (or even contemplated) panic stops from 18mph? Seems like user error was just as much to blame here, and Citi Bike (or lyft, or motivate, or whomever runs the service) simply shot themselves in the foot by calling it a technical problem, thus opening themselves up to lawsuits.
As you stated before, govern the assist to 10-12 mph and all of the issues basically go away.
But, I will just add, that all of the naysayers were right in this case. The program didn't even last a month before they had to pull the bikes. So perhaps all those comparing the electric Citi Bike criticism to that of the program before it rolled out (in 2013), should offer up an apology?
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Apparently a roller drum brake in contrast to other types just makes it too easy to unintentionally over-brake; while a highly skilled rider very in tune with their gear might be okay, the manufacturer doesn't want you running one without a modulator even on a personal bike, and these were share bikes targeted at an often inexperienced pool of riders and putting even experienced riders in a position of being unfamiliar with the unique feel of the particular example they would be getting on.
Seems like user error was just as much to blame here
Citi Bike (or lyft, or motivate, or whomever runs the service) simply shot themselves in the foot by calling it a technical problem, thus opening themselves up to lawsuits.
As you stated before, govern the assist to 10-12 mph and all of the issues basically go away.
Last edited by UniChris; 06-25-19 at 06:39 PM.
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Apparently a roller drum brake in contrast to other types just makes it too easy to unintentionally over-brake; while a highly skilled rider very in tune with their gear might be okay, the manufacturer doesn't want you running one without a modulator even on a personal bike, and these were share bikes targeted at an often inexperienced pool of riders and putting even experienced riders in a position of being unfamiliar with the unique feel of the particular example they would be getting on.
Some of the crashes were cyclists of long experience
Actually they held out and were silent about the issue until that became untenable.