ptrqc

Hi,

Recently bought a bike from an online retailer, after the frame of my older bike started to crack.

I contacted the manufacturer to get confirmation that the rear hub spacing on the bike I was planning on buying had 135mm rear hub spacing, so that I could transfer my custom higher end wheelset (DT340hubs +DT TK540 rims) to the bike: they confirmed 135mm spacing on the frame.

Big disappointment when I tried swapping out the rear wheel: frame has 130mm spacing instead of 135mm.

3 questions:

- the hubs on my wheelset are 135mm QR DTSwiss 340's (non-disc). While I'm waiting for a reply from DT, anyone can confirm that I would not be able to reduce to 130mm width ? (this is at least what Google results suggest: 240 and 350 would be convertible, but not 340)

- got of course in touch with manufcaturer customer service (who provided me with the initial wrong information), and have a feeling they might suggest forcing the 135mm hub in the 130mm spaced (steel) frame, without proper cold setting. Any thoughts (I'm thinking: chain line, damage to drop outs and paint, etc.)

- does it see reasonable that I request that manufacturer provides me with 130mm hub wheelset of same quality I have (or credit to buy one), as the error is clearly on their side, or,in case hubs can be converted, for cost of parts, labour to convert (would also imagine wheel would have to be re-dished in that case)

Will share (hopefully satisfactiry) outcome with the forum.

DiabloScott

I think that's a very unlikely outcome. The manufacturer might pay shipping on your return of the frame for a refund... or possibly credit you a small amount to keep it.

hokiefyd 

To my (limited) understanding, the only advantage you'll get by cold setting the frame is the convenience of not having to spread the rear triangle (slightly) with each wheel change. A 5mm difference is only 2.5mm on each side, which is less than 1/8" on either side. I think you could pretty easily insert the drive side axle into its dropout (while the bike is on the ground, for example) and then just spread the non-drive side 1/4" and set the dropout down on the axle end. The frame should self-center the hub; it shouldn't matter that you insert one end of the hub into the frame first.

In other words, I don't think it matters whether you cold set the frame or just use it as-is. I think you stand more chances of damaging the paint if you try to cold set it, as you typically have to spread the dropouts way beyond what your desired measurement is. Going from 130mm to 135mm might mean you need to spread them to 150mm or more so they can relax back to 135mm.

I hope someone can come behind me and confirm all of this.

zacster

I use a 130 hub in an older 126 steel frame without issue, but I wouldn't want to have to do that with a new frame. I also have a 126 aluminum C'dale bike that I wanted to try, but that was a totally different beast and isn't recommended.

If this is an American retailer I'd have them take care of it for you one way or the other. If it were a Chinese seller then it would be a little harder. There are a lot of frames you can buy from China these days really cheap.

ptrqc

clasher

I think it's a bit ripe to ask for them to buy you new wheels when the easiest and sanest fix is a simple cold set. You might want to check the alignment on the frame too. If this is a fairly standard production type frame it's likely the factory makes them in both 130 and 135 variants so something along the line just got mixed up. Especially if the frame isn't made for one of the big names like Surly or something, the specs being a little off is kind of par for the course... part of the reason that they are cheaper than buying a frame from an LBS catalogue is that it doesn't get the same amount of QC as a way to control costs.

If there's a good co-op in your area they might have the time and space to show how to do it all yourself. I know any new (or new-to-me) frame I get gets the old string check as well as a check on the dropout spacing and alignment, and sometimes I'll even tap and face the BB since our local co-op has the stuff do it.

Do you have a link to the seller's page?

Iride01 

My expectation would be that if they concede that there was an error on their part that they allow you to return the bike in accordance with their policy. Hopefully they will feel the mistake was enough theirs to help you with any of your costs in shipping it back and re-stocking fees etc.

However I'm confused who you got the information from. Is the manufacturer you got the bad info from also the online retailer?

79pmooney

What material is the frame? I hope it is steel or titanium. Carbon fiber doesn't coldset. With aluminum, very high chances of future cracks leading to failure. (I'm guessing the frame is not titanium as there are relatively few painted ti frames.) A steel frame should coldset without issue. I suppose you could get paint issues near the BB on the chainstay though I have never seen it. Any damage to paint at the dropouts will be soon masked but the general abuse to paint there from the hub and QR.

Ben

fietsbob

change the hub axle parts to reduce the width .. ?.. redish the wheel after that.

CliffordK

Is it possible the frame was spaced for 132 or 133mm? In which case either 130 or 135mm wheels should fit.

There are supposed to be DT Swiss 130mm endcaps available... somewhere. Hopefully your conversations with DT will be fruitful.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=42748

base2 

From what I gather on Jenson you have a 135 mountain hub manufacturer part number: HWRABX00S1618S

What you want is a 130 road hub manufacturer part number: HWYABX00S1631S

I would call customer service directly & see if I could buy an end cap directly.

In my (very limited) experience in with a situation similar to yours, but with a different brand, I think the drive side never changes due to freehub/cassette/derailleur considerations. I would venture a guess that only the non-drive side is not only available, but also cheap. If it were me I'd call customer service & tell them you have a road 130 mm hub & you need a road 130 hub end cap. I wouldn't elaborate unless they asked & if they did I'd claim I lost the original "I don't know where." I'd also be willing to eat the $10 mistake if it turns out I was wrong with my guess.

In today's manufacturing world it doesn't make sense to have seperate production lines foe essentially the same product. They'd go broke pretty quick. My legitimate, honest guess is the diff between 340's road & mountain is the end cap only.

Good luck.

ptrqc

ptrqc

CliffordK

That is odd...

I think Bike Friday may build their bikes to work with a couple of different hubs, so there may be different frames with different widths. Or specs could change over time. But, still odd that nobody seems to know.

It might be worth getting back on the horn with the frame supplier, and perhaps an exchange if other frames are built to 135.

Of course, it depends. For a road application and rim brakes, I'd probably prefer 130mm. Disc brakes, or Cross... not sure.

Iride01 

That wasn't my question.....but I'll take that to imply the manufacturer was not also the online retailer. In that case it's absolutely not the retailers problem that you bought the wrong bike. IMO.... You are left with whatever their return policy is and/or whatever good will they wish to bestow on you for your mistake. It's certainly not their fault someone else told you wrong.

IMHO.

ptrqc

Iride01 

It is curious though......so let us know if you find out if its a one off thing, or does the retailer reconfigure the bike from the mfrs standard. But It won't be the first time I've gotten or seen other get misinformation from the mfr or their website. But admittedly it is rare.

ptrqc

That was my first thought, but after measuring it is clearly 130mm, and the manufacturer confirmed it should be 135mm


Send them an email last weekend, but still waiting for their reply. Am I correct in assuming that, it the hub can be adjusted, I will also need a short axle as the axle in the 135mm spaced hub would be too long ?

hokiefyd 

If your hub can be adjusted down, you'll most likely need a new axle, as your current axle would likely protrude past the dropouts and not allow sufficient (or any!) clamping force. I say "likely" because it's hard to know for sure. Your 135mm hub probably has a 141-143mm axle in it. If you have particularly thick dropouts, I guess it's possible that the outside measurement of the dropouts is greater than 141-143mm, in which case you may not need a shorter axle, but I doubt it.

Check the frame to be sure. If it's already a true 130mm spacing as is, see if you can measure outside-to-outside of the dropout clamping faces without squeezing or spreading them. I'd reckon they're about 136-138mm or so...but that's just a wild guess.

ptrqc

Getting closer: mfr is now stating that model changed from 130mm to 135mm spacing mid-season and that I would have gotten a "old" model year frame with the "new" model year specs....
However, my understanding is that the model changed from V-brake (130mm spaced) to disc brake (135mm spacing) from one to the other model year. Mfr tells me their current V-brake model still has 130mm spacing.
So getting close to confirmation that the mfr provided me with the wrong information to begin with...

Still waiting for a solution, but at least mfr is now close admitting I got the wrong information to start with...

Steve B.

Bike Gremlin

One idea (apart from choosing a 130 mm hub).

People who build metal parts in great precision, not sure of the English term. They can make the left hand side adapter of the hub to be shorter by 2.5 mm - which would make the hub have 132.5 mm wide, and fit the frame. I've done it with cup and cone type hubs, as well as with a DT swiss cartridge bearing hub that has a through axle. For cup and cone it's easier, one can often find old thinner/wider spacers and locknuts, but with the through axle cartridge bearing one, it was necessary to have the "attachment" made.

Going shorter by just 2.5 mm, means it will be just over 1 mm more to the sides - if the DT swiss hub is made so that the axle can be "moved" to sit in the middle, once the left hand side spacing is reduced.

Quick release skewers often have a deeper mid section, that the axle can fit in. Like in the ones pic I've added to this post. This means, that even if the axle ends up going a bit outside the dropouts, the QR will still get a good grip on the frame. You might need to remove the springs from both sides of the QR skewer though. Depending on the depth of the groove, I'd say the axle protruding for that amount, minus 0.5 (or more) mm is good. With a 1.25 mm hub width reduction at each side (relative to the axle, you are practically doing it all on the left, since making it shorter on the right hand side might cause the chain to rub the chainstays when on the smallest sprocket), you are very likely to have the axle end almost flush with the dropouts, not protruding out of them.

If it all fits, you will stil need to redish the wheel, moving the rim to the right. It will to a degree compromise the wheel's strength, especially to the loads coming from the right hand side. If the rim can take more (total) spoke tension, I'd do the dishing by tightening the right hand side spokes, without loosening the left hand side ones (to prevent them from coming loose from too little tension). Rim will have to move 1.25 mm to the right to be dead center. When building such "compromised" wheels, since the total dishing error acceptable tollerance is 0.5 mm to each side, I deliberately let the wheel stay a bit more to the left - just making sure it doesn't go by more than 0.5 mm to the left. This makes it less weakened, while still not causing problems for the bikes ballance.

QR skewer pic:

ptrqc

Just thought I would report on the final outcome of this.

Lot of back and forth emails with the manufacturers customer service and warranty department:
- they finally (reluctantly) admitted they "might" have provided me with the wrong information;
- then they let me know they were working on a solution with DTSwiss
- after that: complete radio silence (even not replying to my emails)
- finally wrote to the CEO of the company
- then their customer service got back in touch
- but then stopped communcating again
- then wrote again to CEO
- finally they credited me the cost of a new DT Swiss hub that I ordered in the mean time.

Positive outcome, painful customer experience (took 80 days, +20 emails).

Next step: rebuild my wheel with the new hub.

cpach

Wow, that sounds like so much more work than cold setting the frame. I would've pressed for a credit for the shop charge for a proper cold setting (with frame alignment and dropout alignment), but I guess you get a second good hub out of it?

mirfi

Hello,

I didn't want to open a new thread with numerous other threads already on the subject.
My story.

I bought a Catrike rear wheel to fit my Mercier Mini Velo.

Added the cassette, drilled the rim for a schrader tube, put a 100 psi tire/tube on(no small feat).

Then spent 45 frustrating minutes thinking why TF doesn't this wheel go on the bike**********

Covered in grease and sweat I stopped.

Cleaned up, consulted the bike forums and Sheldon Brown.

Took measurements, ta-da.... 135mm hub, 130mm frame.

Sorry, I just need to tell someone who might understand.

BTW I'm on the forth stage of grief (acceptance)