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How large of a tubular can I fit?

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How large of a tubular can I fit?

Old 06-17-18, 01:07 PM
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How large of a tubular can I fit?

After my first experience on tubulars I woke up to this:

They are old Servizio Corse so I expected this at some point. They look to be the same size as my 700 x23 Conti GP 4 season clinchers. They measure about 21 mm or so above the rim and looks like I have another 6-7 mm to the bottom of the brake.

Do you think I can fit a 28 or should I stick with 25? I'd like to run the Veloflex Roubaix or Vlaaderen. As a side note, are these tires ever available?
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Old 06-17-18, 01:20 PM
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I don't think a 28mm tire will cause any problems. I think you could go wider than that. Finding a wider tire may be a challenge, though.

Is this your only bike? If you have another bike, one with 700c clincher tires, try fitting the other wheels with fatter tires; you'll see what the limits are.
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Old 06-17-18, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Soylent
I'd like to run the Veloflex Roubaix or Vlaaderen. As a side note, are these tires ever available?
+1000 for the Vlaanderen. They are beautiful tires. I did the 90 mile route at Eroica CA on them, without a lick of trouble. Classic looks, and at 60 psi front, 70 rear, they're like rolling on clouds. Probikekit.com used to have good prices on them, but it looks like they stopped carrying the veloflex tubulars.
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Old 06-17-18, 02:40 PM
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Looks like you've got plenty of clearance for 28 mm tires. I'd probably stick with 25c though, because those are modern rims and the radius is probably more appropriate for 21-25c tires than fat old style rough road tubies.

25c was the defacto standard size when i raced. Still the best compromise IMO for general road riding for a mid weight rider.
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Old 06-17-18, 02:41 PM
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merlincycles.com has the Veloflex Roubaix for $68, the Arenberg for 73, the Vlaaderen for 91. Not exactly cheap but you aren't likely to find cheaper unless you get lucky on ebay. When you first open site you may see prices quoted in pounds sterling, when you get to the tires you'll see $$ and note that prices include shipping. Or they include shipping if you meet minimum order of 50 pounds, which is currently about one Veloflex Roubaix.

The Servizio Corse, if you have the 3/$50 version, work a lot better for lighter riders. Since they are narrow you have to pump them pretty high. If you are heavy and need over 120psi (or over 140psi) they won't take it for long.
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Old 06-18-18, 01:21 AM
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Thanks for the help everyone. I ordered the Roubaix tires from Merlin with free shipping. I have a set of Mavic Paris Robaix wheels so I could try the Vlaanderens later if I decide to switch to the c-record groupo.
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Old 06-18-18, 03:48 AM
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The problem is not so much with the tire size as the clearance with the back of the seat tube. Also the chain stay bridge. Even with vertical dropouts you may have to let the air out of the tire to remove or install the rear wheel.

I had that problem with my 83 Colnago Super and 700x25c tires.



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Old 06-18-18, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
The problem is no so much with the tire size as the clearance with the back of the seat tube. Even with vertical dropouts you may have to let the air out of the tire to remove or install the rear wheel
Good point. I didn't think about that. However it does look like I still have quite a bit of space left with the 23s mounted. But yes, when sliding the wheel forward to remove it may be tight?

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Old 06-18-18, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
The problem is no so much with the tire size as the clearance with the back of the seat tube. Even with vertical dropouts you may have to let the air out of the tire to remove or install the rear wheel.

I had that problem with my 83 Colnago Super and 700x25c tires.



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I was thinking the same. Crossing fingers that the OP can get 28's to fit.
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Old 06-18-18, 02:25 PM
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Builders have pressed in indentations and used curved seat tubes, to shorten the chainstays ..
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Old 06-18-18, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
I was thinking the same. Crossing fingers that the OP can get 28's to fit.
I played it safe and ordered the Roubaix 25s. Then go from there.
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Old 06-18-18, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Soylent
I played it safe and ordered the Roubaix 25s. Then go from there.
I didn't go with tubulars on it, but I recently got done building up a 1977 Argos that had plenty of width in the fork, and I was contemplating ordering 32's. In fact, had the ones I wanted been available, I would have gotten them, so I settled for 28's. As it is, the 28's are about all that it will take.

I think 25's or 26's are a good call on your machine.
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Old 06-18-18, 07:10 PM
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Rear Wheel Clearance

It's not only clearance with the back of the seat tube but I've seen problems with the tire hitting the chain stay bridge too. The issue isn't limited to frames from the 70's and 80's either.

My all original 1967 Peugeot PX-10 barn bike came with 2 sets of wheels - sewups and clinchers. The tubular rims needed a major overhaul and polishing. The clinchers had some very dead 25mm tires. I threw a pair of 32mm Paselas on. The front wheel just barely cleared, the rear wheel wouldn't go at all. Had to go with 28mm Paselas and deflate the rear tire.



BTW, I fixed the problem on the Colnago by filing about 3-4mm off of the front of the dropouts. I probably wouldn't do this on a NICE bike like the OP's De Rosa ...but I bought this "Nag" frame for a rider.



@Soylent The 3 for $50 Servizio Corsa tires from Yellow Jersey were only made for 90-100 psi. I've been riding those on several bikes for 7-8 years. Aside from some of them looked like a snake that swallowed a rat, no problems. Run em on the rear!



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Old 08-05-18, 11:35 AM
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The 25mm Paris Roubaix fit no problem. I think I can easily go to 28mm next time if I want to.


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Old 08-05-18, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
It's not only clearance with the back of the seat tube...




verktyg
My late 1974 Harry Quinn with impossibly short chain stays had this trick by Mr. Quinn from the get go. Really allowed easier rear wheel removal that way.
Wheelbase on that bike? 37.25". toe clip overlap? Lots. 11" high bottom bracket. A terrific criterium bike.
Only a guy with a Schroder could pedal through the corners with me.
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Old 08-05-18, 12:11 PM
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Looks like lots of room there.

25's on my Tommy Quick clear the FD clamp by a whole 1/16th of an inch.

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Old 08-05-18, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
It's not only clearance with the back of the seat tube but I've seen problems with the tire hitting the chain stay bridge too. The issue isn't limited to frames from the 70's and 80's either.

My all original 1967 Peugeot PX-10 barn bike came with 2 sets of wheels - sewups and clinchers. The tubular rims needed a major overhaul and polishing. The clinchers had some very dead 25mm tires. I threw a pair of 32mm Paselas on. The front wheel just barely cleared, the rear wheel wouldn't go at all. Had to go with 28mm Paselas and deflate the rear tire.



BTW, I fixed the problem on the Colnago by filing about 3-4mm off of the front of the dropouts. I probably wouldn't do this on a NICE bike like the OP's De Rosa ...but I bought this "Nag" frame for a rider.



@Soylent The 3 for $50 Servizio Corsa tires from Yellow Jersey were only made for 90-100 psi. I've been riding those on several bikes for 7-8 years. Aside from some of them looked like a snake that swallowed a rat, no problems. Run em on the rear!



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huh, I might try filing like that on a couple bikes....
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Old 08-05-18, 01:28 PM
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Short Chainstays

Originally Posted by repechage
My late 1974 Harry Quinn with impossibly short chain stays had this trick by Mr. Quinn from the get go. Really allowed easier rear wheel removal that way.
Wheelbase on that bike? 37.25". toe clip overlap? Lots. 11" high bottom bracket. A terrific criterium bike.
Only a guy with a Schroder could pedal through the corners with me.
Our shop was doing a lot of wholesale business with Gus Betat out of New Orleans. In early 1975 I decided that I needed a custom frame and had those folks build me one. The workmanship was great.

I was quite a masher back then and I told them that I wanted a frame that was "stiff" and wouldn't ghost shift when I was climbing. I also wanted it to be smooth riding plus I needed a short top tube because I was having some neck problems.


The frame had a 38" wheelbase with 71° angles and a 53cm top tube. The chain stays were about 16" (405cm). It climbed great and rode smooth but the handling was wonky and toe clip overlap was severe.

I built it as mostly a Campy free zone except for hubs and seatpost bolt. I got some of the first Suntour Cyclone derailleurs to hit the States in 1975, same with Weinmann Carrera brakes. Went with Stronglight 93 cranks because I could get a 38T small chainring and the sharp pointed teeth shifted better than Campy's with the chains that were available back then.

I rode big 30mm Clement Paris-Roubaix sewups and had to deflate the rear one to get any wheel in and out. There was just about 10mm of clearance with the 71° seat tube and as you can see in the picture, very little clearance between the front tire and down tube.

Notice the aluminum rail Brooks Pro hybrid saddle. We had 2 trashed saddles in our junk collection and I melded Brooks leather onto Ideale rails.



After riding the bike that way for a while, I partially rebuilt the rear triangle to lengthen the chain stays and change the head tube angle plus I put in Campy vertical dropouts which fixed the rear wheel clearance problems. I also re-raked the fork to improve handling.

I sold it in 1976 when I started building frames. This was it's replacement but I modified geometry for touring: 106cm wheelbase, 75° seat tube, 73° head tube, 53cm top tube. It rides and handles perfectly. No wheel clearance issues here!



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Old 08-05-18, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
Our shop was doing a lot of wholesale business with Gus Betat out of New Orleans. In early 1975 I decided that I needed a custom frame and had those folks build me one. The workmanship was great.

I was quite a masher back then and I told them that I wanted a frame that was "stiff" and wouldn't ghost shift when I was climbing. I also wanted it to be smooth riding plus I needed a short top tube because I was having some neck problems.


The frame had a 38" wheelbase with 71° angles and a 53cm top tube. The chain stays were about 16" (405cm). It climbed great and rode smooth but the handling was wonky and toe clip overlap was severe.

I built it as mostly a Campy free zone except for hubs and seatpost bolt. I got some of the first Suntour Cyclone derailleurs to hit the States in 1975, same with Weinmann Carrera brakes. Went with Stronglight 93 cranks because I could get a 38T small chainring and the sharp pointed teeth shifted better than Campy's with the chains that were available back then.

I rode big 30mm Clement Paris-Roubaix sewups and had to deflate the rear one to get any wheel in and out. There was just about 10mm of clearance with the 71° seat tube and as you can see in the picture, very little clearance between the front tire and down tube.

Notice the aluminum rail Brooks Pro hybrid saddle. We had 2 trashed saddles in our junk collection and I melded Brooks leather onto Ideale rails.



After riding the bike that way for a while, I partially rebuilt the rear triangle to lengthen the chain stays and change the head tube angle plus I put in Campy vertical dropouts which fixed the rear wheel clearance problems. I also re-raked the fork to improve handling.

I sold it in 1976 when I started building frames. This was it's replacement but I modified geometry for touring: 106cm wheelbase, 75° seat tube, 73° head tube, 53cm top tube. It rides and handles perfectly. No wheel clearance issues here!



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Should I coment on the Colour or should I just be quiet?
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Old 08-05-18, 09:16 PM
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Harry Quinn would build what you wanted- almost no questions asked.
A co-worker ordered a time trial bike. He wanted ultimate short chain stays- he drafted the frame up full scale even.
frame ordered and Quinn did inquire do you REALLY want chain stays with vertical dropouts THAT short?
Yes.
the frame fit only Clement 220 Criterium setas, and they had to be perfect. 195's had a casing too big, so did everything else save Clement No 3 seta track tires.
Last I knew the frame was wall hanging as he devised a way to crimp the seat tube to gain some clearance.
Bike was pretty mind you.

He did acknowledge that he must have measured the tire he made the design from at a tight region of the casing, should have considered tolerances.
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Old 08-06-18, 01:17 AM
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DayGlo NOT Neon!

Originally Posted by Wileyone
Should I coment on the Colour or should I just be quiet?
Some friends at a LBS used to say "Chas. friends don't let friends ride NEON"!

It's DayGlo... IT'S NOT NEON!



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Old 08-06-18, 04:38 AM
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@verktyg --- DayGlo paint--- I had forgotten all about DayGlo! Quite the interesting history at this link. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
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Old 08-06-18, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone
Should I coment on the Colour or should I just be quiet?
Such a picture of the times - fantastic French drivetrain!

It's my size ...
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Old 08-06-18, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
Some friends at a LBS used to say "Chas. friends don't let friends ride NEON"!

It's DayGlo... IT'S NOT NEON!



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Album cover art!
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Old 08-06-18, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Soylent
After my first experience on tubulars I woke up to this:

They are old Servizio Corse so I expected this at some point. They look to be the same size as my 700 x23 Conti GP 4 season clinchers. They measure about 21 mm or so above the rim and looks like I have another 6-7 mm to the bottom of the brake.

Do you think I can fit a 28 or should I stick with 25? I'd like to run the Veloflex Roubaix or Vlaaderen. As a side note, are these tires ever available?

I agree with RHM - you should be able to fit 28 mm. I had 27 mm Challenge Parigi-Roubaix tubulars on a Mondonico for a while, no fit issues! For availability, check out World Class Cycles in Long Island, I think. The Servizio Corse have had essentially continuous availability for a long time - I'd think Yellow Jersey is as easy to order from as ever.
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