PolishPostal

Ok. I sorted of asked this question previously but I would like to get much more detail.

I'm a CAT 5 trying to find a training program that will produce the best results. I've been riding for about 16 months. I did my first race 4 months ago and plan to do at least 9 races this coming year to upgrade to CAT 4. Up to about a month ago I have not trained with any real plan, I've just rode easy days and hard days.

For the past month I've been following the training schedule that I developed from Joe Friel's Cyclist Training Bible. I'm in Base 2 right now. I think so far I'm seeing decent results with the base training. I am thinking ahead to next year. With this base training I'm losing my "top end". Would I be better off next year to repeat this process or try to maintain the gains?

It seems that one of my limiters is recovery after hard efforts (near MHR efforts). If I don't back off considerable following these efforts my HR sort of hangs and doesn't drop. I hope that makes sense. I don't know if there are certain workouts that I can do to improve this or if that is just how it is going to be.

I'm very intersted to hear what other more experienced racers are doing with training. What methods have you seen that produce the best results for you?

I know.... "you need to get a coach". I'm too cheap for that. I have a family, 2 small kids and #3 due in April so I can't justify $100 + per month for a coach.

Thanks.

zakk

lots of things.

Are you doing muscle endruance stuff? Things to get that deep muscle power? Its more then just easy & hard. Its effectively pushing your body and allowing it to adapt to it.

It is totally normal to lose your 'snap' or 'kick' during the off season. Its 'off' for a number of reasons.

I personally do not perscribe to the Zone 2 for winter BS. my coach does and doesn't, but I definately have my kicks. Attacking on a group ride, going hard on a hill, etc. break the boring 5 hour winter rides into something less mind numbing.

Doing things like 2x20' @ LT in a 3 hour ride will help, as will spin drills, strength drills, long seated climbs, etc.

Active recovery days should be in there, too. Spin days, X-training, etc. its the off season.

jfmckenna

Following Friel's schedule is a good way to get into shape. But if you're like me and probably a lot of others here it took me 3 seasons before I finally learned how to race, get strong, and meet some of my goals. So looking ahead to next year is good but looking ahead a few years might be a good thing too.

alison_in_oh

Yeah, the way I see it almost ANYTHING will cause you to make leaps and bounds in fitness, and RACING is going to be the biggest payoff because you'll learn to RACE better.

So for my money, life's too short to follow stringent training schedules. In particular, I don't want to peak too soon, so I'm just dinking around trying to maintain fitness till February; then I'll kick it up a notch and work out a more complicated schedule as the season approaches.

merlinextraligh

You need to be laying a base now. It's more than just maintaining general fitness. In addition to just putting in base miles, I do some drills designed to improve spin (fast pedals), and power (power starts, muscle tensions, and one legged pedals , which actually do both).
If you haven't trained for a number of years, I think it's even more important to go back and build your base now.
I understand your desire not to follow a rigid schedule, however if you really want to improve, and like most of us have limited time, I think a well though out structured plan really does help.
I've been using Carmichael training systems for 2 years, and it really has helped me. And if you buy one of the more comprehensive plans your coach can make the schedule accomodate your life, so it isn't so rigid.

YMCA

Friel is waaayyy to rigid. Forget periodization. You haven't even learned to race yet. Find every race you can enter and ride aggressively. If there is no race, get to the fastest hammerfest you can find. Trial and error on your own terms is the only way to learn quickly. Science coaches only bring burnout and confusion to beginners in an already complicated, yet simple sport. Get it? Let your fire burn and your instincts take over. Only then will you truly understand racing. Don't trust me, ask any "real" pro.

Warblade

Well what exactly are your goals this coming season? Because if its to just upgrade to a CAT 4 you don't need to do much. But if your looking at winning a couple races or upgrading to a CAT 3 its a whole different story.

Warblade

It's true, very true. You don't want to over work yourself to the point where you burn yourself out.

PolishPostal

Oh... I definitely want to win some races. I want to do at the least 9 races this year which as a minimum would upgrade me to CAT 4. Obviously I would love to be successful enough with finishes to go from a 5 to a 3 this year.

Warblade

I actually think its ten mass start races for a CAT 4 upgrade. At least thats how it is in Washington State.

PolishPostal

Correct, 10 mass starts. As I mentioned above, I already had one start this past year so 9 next year would put me at 10.

sjjone

Uh, I don't mean to highjack the thread, but I have 24 races on the preliminary schedule, 7 are collegiate so they don't count for points/upgrade, but the college women are better than the USCF racers in this area, so it'll be better race training for me. Is that too much? I have most of May off (no races for 3 weeks) and I was planning on a week off the bike in June to visit a friend in Greece and lose the tan lines.

Warblade

From what cat to what cat?

sjjone

4-3, but women have no cat 5. Also, many races will be combined 1-4, plus there's at least one girl in this collegiate division who regularly beats T-mobile and Quark women. I don't really see how Cats are relevant, except for the state BAR, they award a women's 4.

Duke of Kent

Do what I'm doing: keep a resume of how you do in your races this spring. Send it to the USCF guy/gal in your area who is in charge of upgrades, asking to be moved up. I'll have 30+ races this spring as an A, and I sure as hell want credit for it.

Assuming you WANT to get credit for those college races...

YMCA

Unless you are racing 100+ times a year, you don't have to worry about "over racing". Racing is the best training and those who race a lot, learn faster and give themselves lots more chances for success. If you only raced 10x in a year, the pressure on your self to be "on" each race would be overwhelming. Race 30-50x a year or more and you'll be able to relax a bit if things don't go well at some races (flat tires, crashes, team tactics, etc).

Phatman

I'm not so sure that I agree w/ the "race all the time" approach. I race 2x a weekend this past spring for my first race season. Every weekend from March until May I raced. I was definitely burned out, with one of my problems being that I didn’t really have time to work on my longer rides, because I was always recovering from races. By May, I was getting pretty tired in the longer races.

I decided I needed a break from road cycling, just a week or two around may to recover to peak again later in the season. I'm certain it would've worked had I not broken my wrist mountain biking.

I think that something that a lot of people don’t take into account is the recovery needed after a race. Racing too much = burnout.

I think a far better course would be to hook up w/ a club. A lot of clubs have coach-like people (usually ex-pros) that help out riders for free, or low cost. Generally, they can help out and give you an idea of the type of workouts you need to do, and what frequency to do them in. In addition, you can usually get them to ride w/ you or come to races you do, so that they can observe your strengths and weaknesses.

2Rodies

This is why a coach is so important. Yes Friel is ridged, and most coaches use a veriaiton of Freils program, but periodization is best way to peak for your goal races. You don't want to burn out but a good coach will keep that from happening. This is why I hired a coach, I would train so hard that I would be to tired to race. I now ride less and I am fitter, faster and putting out more power than when I rode 8-10 more hours per week.

Now several of my teamates are coached by the same guy and a couple of them are on a really loose schedule. I happen to like waking up and knowing exactly what I have to do for that days workout. I can schedule my time with my wife and kids, knowing exactly the kind of workout and how long it's going to take. I do nice mixture of riding and weight training and I can see the results on my PowerTap.

As for "real pro's" I talked with Kevin Livingston (I'd consider him a real pro) and CTS before hiring my current coach and all three had very simular programs. I picked Sean because he and I hit it off and our personalities were very simular.

YMCA

Why did you need to work on your longer rides? And why couldn't you just add miles after a race sometimes. For the person "really" interested in racing bicycles, racing should be their main focus, not training. If specific work or extra endurance work is needed in the midst of a big racing period, then make the most of the weeks you don't have a race and go for some long ones.

Also, taking a break now and then from racing is great, but that doesn't mean someone should avoid racing to go training, it means they should be taking a break mentally and just head out for some mod endurance rides until they are ready to hit it again.

YMCA

Yes, but Kevin Livingston and many pros are paid for peak performances. When weekend warriors try to hit peaks, they usually miss out on all kinds of chances at success because they decided to train through race after race, just so they could "try" to be on for the big money/prestige event that everyone else wants to win too.

Instead I proposition that cat 2-3-4's race often and without any major goals, other than to try and compete every time they toe the line. If I win a few $200 crits but lose the Championship, at least I will have won something, while the other guys never even gave themselves a chance in their quest to be good on one day.

Let me humbly give you my favorite quote from Jacques Michaud when he was a director at Swiss Post (also a former pro rider and now sport director with Phonak);

"Don't be unwilling to give it 100% because you are thinking of the next day. If you think too much in cycling, you've had it. When you have to give it your all, you have to give it your all, end of story. Get used to the idea of not calculating and economizing so much. If you want to progress, you have got to suffer. If you only go well when you have good legs, then you will only go well four or five days a year".

A brutal, but effective take on the sport.

2Rodies

But you miss the essential point that you can't be at peak or near peak all season. What you end up with is a season that is hit and miss. I don't know what the racing is like in your neck of the woods but here in Central Texas there are "big" races most every weekend, all season long. I've picked my A races and my B races and I plan on being at my top form for the A races. If other guys are at their top level at those races then the best (read smartest) racer wins. But to go to race after race tired and below form is not just pointless but very discouraging. At some point if race after race you don't get results or make improvements then you will wonder why you are putting yourself through all of this torture.

This is just a personal thing but I'd rather know that I'm hitting the start line in top form with a shot at winning than just going out there and hoping for the best. If the other works for you great I just know it doesn't work for me.

redal

I agree with 2Rodies. I have raced since 1988. I took three years off, but that is 15 seasons of racing. I posted a similar answer in a different thread. The last two seasons I raced full time (before the three years off), I used a coach to make sure I didn't quit before I reached my potential. I wished I had used one earlier. After returning to racing a few years ago, I did my own programs and kind of went with the flow. After a really good season last year, I am using a coach again to maximize my time on the bike. I tried to follow Friel's book, but decided to let someone else set up my program. A coach takes a lot of the guesswork out and in my situation can make you the little bit better that means the difference between going home from nationals with a medal and/or a jersey or going home empty handed but knowing you had a good time. It is also easy to have your rides scripted for you. They can still be fun.

DannoXYZ 

Don't worry about it. Once you add about a month or two of real speedwork in the spring with intervals and sprints, you'll get a tonne of speed and improve your recovery-rate significantly. You'll be able to do an all-out sprint at 100% to complete exhaustion, then can hop back into the pack and be fully-recovered ready to do it all again.

DannoXYZ 

I think you should be fine. You've already got the endurance to finish all your races, so now it's just a matter of speed and tactics. Mental-burnout is a bigger concern and a couple of victories is always a great way to get motivation. I did 40+ collegiate races my 1st season along with 25 USCF races during the summer, so your body can handle it physically if you're getting enough rest and not overtraining. Have fun in Greece! You can always run on the beach and do sprints to develop a killer finish.

redal

I meant to add the same thoughts to my 1st post as well. You don't need top end right now and you shouldn't have it while you are in the Base period.