Troop250

Hi, I have been tasked with finding out some information on a friend's vintage bike that has been hanging in the garage for many years since her partner passed away. It has been powder coated white so there are no badges or anything. The brakes are Mafac and the bottom bracket is Bayliss Wiley and Campagnolo hubs. It's five speed and has a Milremo saddle. I've had a look around at the lugwork patterns and have found ones that look the same on a Mal Rees frame and also on a Raphael Geminiani.

Below are some pics, hopefully someone may have an idea what it could be:

RacerNo.7

I do recognize Nervex lugs and wrap around seat stays. I would guess it's built buy some smaller British framebuilder. I assume tubing is Reynolds, 501 most likely.

What would help the most is some pictures of bottom bracket, brake bridge, wrap around seat stays and dropouts.

Troop250

Thank you RacerNo.7, Mal Rees was a small British frame builder, he was also very local to us which got me thinking it might be one of his. I'll try and get some better pics over the weekend of the other bits.

repechage

Yes, British.
Nervex Pro lugs were used a lot and considered top tier by many, this bike includes a Nervex Bottom bracket shell and fork crown.
My guess from the 60's. Maybe before, but not much earlier.
The top tube cable routing, the finishing of the seat stays and the termination of the stays and blades at the dropouts are probably the best help to identify it. This is one for Norris Lockley I think. He used to participate in the ClassicRendezvous mailing list, an email should come up if you do a bit of searching on bikelist.org. (only archives now and not intuitive to work)

juvela

a third vote for the u.k. in the 1960's. the one thing that is not british looking is the seat binder collar. this is made in italy, probably by agrati. one does not often see this type of seat binder arrangement on a british frame.

she is quite an interesting cycle. thank you for posting.

Troop250

Thanks everyone, some interesting details for me to check out here!

juvela

one detail you may wish to check is the stem to bar fit. note that bar is externally sleeved which tends to imply a non-french origin while the french pivo stem may have a 25.0 mm clamp size. suggest measuring diameter of bar where it is clamped to make sure it is made to fit with clamp of stem.

iirc pivo made their 22.2 mm stems with a 25.4 mm clamp size in which case all will be copacetic. a moment to measure is an excellent investment against to possibility of a stem or bar failure...

zukahn1 

Well based on the older style Nervex Pro lugs it was built before the mid 60's The relatively high end 5speed setup would tend to indicate this bike was a mid 50's to early 60's club racer. As others have said it looks to be of British small or lesser origin.

Troop250

Thanks Zukahn1 I won't be able to get there to take more pics until latter part of this week, bear with me and I'll get some better pics of the bits mentioned above and measure the stem.

Troop250

Hi Sorry for the delay, I've only just managed to get there and take some more (much better) photos:

juvela

WOW!

thanks very much for these additional pictures Troop250. she is indeed a very finely done artisanal frame. had not realised from first group of pictures that rear hub is d/s. gotta luv that seat binder arrangement. could well be an identifier...

please keep thread going as you commence lavandation.

look forward to the next installment.

lostarchitect 

Very cool. To me this looks English and early 60's, or maybe late 50's.

Troop250

Thank you! My friend, who owns the bike, is enjoying retirement and has kept the bike for a decade since her partner passed away but she realises that it should be ridden and back on the road now. Where to start on a value – does anyone have any suggestions on how to value it please?

zukahn1 

I would say at least $250-300 even in current rough condition the frame and vintage Campy flips flop hubs and frame should be worth that much or more to the right buyer.

Troop250

Thank you Zukahn1, it would be great to see it restored.

Chombi

I thought Reynolds 501 tubesets did not come out till about right before the mid 80's for use by manufacturers for mid level bikes??
Did you mean "531" instead??

zukahn1 

I would think this bike would have 531 medium strait guage tubing based on age and lugs.

juvela

hello Troop250,

once you have the machine to hand you can measure the pillar; it may even be marked.

27.2mm = db, 26.4mm = pg

i'm thinking the work and materials too fine for pg. time will tell...

looking forward to the next reportage.

findude

Very pretty frame with exquisite details. Have you found out anything new since the last post?

Scooper

The Nervex bottom bracket shells had coded tube angles, diameters, and spacing sizes cast into them, but there's too much dirt, grease, and grime over the numbers to see them. Could you please try to wipe it with a clean rag and take a close-up photo? Thanks.

Based on the early Nervex Professional lugs and other details, I'm guessing mid-fifties to early sixties with butted 531 tubing.

Troop250

Hi, sorry I haven't been back to see the bike for a while. I don't think there's anything actually stamped on the bottom like the photo though. Thank you for the further comments I will try to get over and have another look.

Scooper

The beginning of the numbers is clearly visible in the area not covered by grime.

zukahn1 

Yes while a little obscured by the grimm and paint the Nervex details are there. If nicely cleaned up, with a good photo we should be able to make out the Nervex logo and details which would give a lot of info on the frame. Based on the style of Nervex logo and geomtry details, it is likely possible to ID the approx year, likely tubing and type of frame sport/recreational, light touring or racing.

Lee mal rees

Your bike is most certainly a bill Hurlow mal rees. Your fork crown detail is identical to mine and the rest of the ornate lugs are only slightly different, almost identical.

rhm

Bikeforums comes though again, not even four years late