Gear Question: Drop bar commuters
#27
aka Tom Reingold
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It's a good question, because it makes a big difference. I've gone through lots of handlebars, and they're all different and interesting.
If I had a commute of three miles or shorter, I would probably want to be semi-upright. This lets me look around more easily. But when it's over three miles, I want more efficiency. I use a rear view mirror on my glasses which is a huge help. I'm surprised how unpopular mirrors are on bikes, though I'm glad to see their usage finally increasing.
My main commuter bike has Nitto mustache bars. (I'm going to put the same bar on my future gravel bike, though I'm not sure I'll like it there.) The most popular way to mount this bar is to use a tall stem with a short extension, which is what I've done. It does not offer as much variety of positions as drop bars, but I'm OK with that. The variety is in reach, not height.
Speaking of varying reach, I find that flat-ish bars with extensions that reach forward are also adequate for variety. If I don't like the mustache bars on the gravel bike, I might try that setup again, though it will require different shifters.
If I had a commute of three miles or shorter, I would probably want to be semi-upright. This lets me look around more easily. But when it's over three miles, I want more efficiency. I use a rear view mirror on my glasses which is a huge help. I'm surprised how unpopular mirrors are on bikes, though I'm glad to see their usage finally increasing.
My main commuter bike has Nitto mustache bars. (I'm going to put the same bar on my future gravel bike, though I'm not sure I'll like it there.) The most popular way to mount this bar is to use a tall stem with a short extension, which is what I've done. It does not offer as much variety of positions as drop bars, but I'm OK with that. The variety is in reach, not height.
Speaking of varying reach, I find that flat-ish bars with extensions that reach forward are also adequate for variety. If I don't like the mustache bars on the gravel bike, I might try that setup again, though it will require different shifters.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#29
Virgo
Thread Starter
Since I first posted this thread, I bought another new to me vintage road bike and resurrected another from the dead with donor parts so I went from 1 bike with drop bars to 3 in 3 days. Further, they all have the same size bar. So along with my various stems I may have some opportunities for experimentation.
Back to daily commuter bike topic, one of the first iterations of the drop bar conversion was using the stock riser stem and it affected a position similar to what you describe. I was just always in the drops so it didn’t make sense to keep it that way. The hoods were actually uncomfortably high. Maybe I’ll revisit that setup in the coming days.
#30
Virgo
Thread Starter
#31
Banned
Its a Port town founded in 1811, in 208 years there have been many..
with the craft brewing surge there are over a half dozen , now running
Plus all the restaurants..
if you come out here I can start you on a pub crawl within a small radius ..
'The Chart Room' (ie Navigational charts , NOAA publishes thousands of different ones)
....
with the craft brewing surge there are over a half dozen , now running
Plus all the restaurants..
if you come out here I can start you on a pub crawl within a small radius ..
That’s too convenient. Wait, which bar?
....
Last edited by fietsbob; 05-04-19 at 06:42 PM.
#32
Senior Member
If your current vintage drop bar is too long and deep, I don’t think you’ll be happy with any of the Nitto bars being recommended. Nitto makes all of their bars with long reach and relatively deep drop. They’re pretty, but kind of old-fashioned in how they’re designed and built. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it sounds like you might want to try something different.
Modern drop bars tend to have much shorter reach and shallower drop. I would look for a “compact” bar or a newer ergonomic design. The original “ergonomic” bars had awkward flat sections with sharp bends in the middle of the bar. Newer designs retain a smooth curve while also tending to have comfortable spots to place your hands in the drops as you cruise along. Examples that come to mind are the 3T Ergonova and Deda Elementi’s RHM series. You can find less expensive alternatives from brands like Kalloy, Dimension and, to a lesser extent, Salsa. Look for reach measurements in the 75-85 mm range.
Something to keep in mind is that, having used an older bar, you may need a new stem as well. You probably have a 25.4 or 26.0 mm clamp. There may be some modern designs available in this clamp size, but most will be available only in 31.8 mm.
As for whether a particular drop bar might be better for commuting, versus other uses, I don’t know. I haven’t had a dedicated commuter bike in some time, when I’ve had a bike commute I’ve used my road or cyclocross racing bikes and they both work fine. I do think a lot of people prefer to have their head up a bit when commuting to make it easier to see in traffic. I’m so used to a racing position at this point that I don’t care, but I remember feeling the difference before. But that’s going to be a function mostlly of reach and bar height rather than bar style per de. A modern bar will have a shorter reach and that will sit you up a bit.
I know some are recommending significantly increasing the height of your handlebar. I’m more hesitant to suggest this for a couple of reasons. First, most road bikes aren’t designed for such high handlebars and it can negatively affect handling in my opinion. Not in a dangerous way, just in a less pleasant and confident way. Second, it’s not well understood that a higher handlebar has to be considerably closer in order for you to reach it comfortably. Take a look at the horizontal distance between saddle and bars on an upright city bike (like a Dutch-style bike for example) to see what I mean. The more upright the fit a frame is intended for, the shorter the top tube must be. A road frame with a super-high drop handlebar means uncomfortably straight elbows and, again in my opinion, further compromised handling. I know some people like this, and that’s fine, but it wouldn’t be the first thing I tried. Drop bars really aren’t made for that kind of position.
Modern drop bars tend to have much shorter reach and shallower drop. I would look for a “compact” bar or a newer ergonomic design. The original “ergonomic” bars had awkward flat sections with sharp bends in the middle of the bar. Newer designs retain a smooth curve while also tending to have comfortable spots to place your hands in the drops as you cruise along. Examples that come to mind are the 3T Ergonova and Deda Elementi’s RHM series. You can find less expensive alternatives from brands like Kalloy, Dimension and, to a lesser extent, Salsa. Look for reach measurements in the 75-85 mm range.
Something to keep in mind is that, having used an older bar, you may need a new stem as well. You probably have a 25.4 or 26.0 mm clamp. There may be some modern designs available in this clamp size, but most will be available only in 31.8 mm.
As for whether a particular drop bar might be better for commuting, versus other uses, I don’t know. I haven’t had a dedicated commuter bike in some time, when I’ve had a bike commute I’ve used my road or cyclocross racing bikes and they both work fine. I do think a lot of people prefer to have their head up a bit when commuting to make it easier to see in traffic. I’m so used to a racing position at this point that I don’t care, but I remember feeling the difference before. But that’s going to be a function mostlly of reach and bar height rather than bar style per de. A modern bar will have a shorter reach and that will sit you up a bit.
I know some are recommending significantly increasing the height of your handlebar. I’m more hesitant to suggest this for a couple of reasons. First, most road bikes aren’t designed for such high handlebars and it can negatively affect handling in my opinion. Not in a dangerous way, just in a less pleasant and confident way. Second, it’s not well understood that a higher handlebar has to be considerably closer in order for you to reach it comfortably. Take a look at the horizontal distance between saddle and bars on an upright city bike (like a Dutch-style bike for example) to see what I mean. The more upright the fit a frame is intended for, the shorter the top tube must be. A road frame with a super-high drop handlebar means uncomfortably straight elbows and, again in my opinion, further compromised handling. I know some people like this, and that’s fine, but it wouldn’t be the first thing I tried. Drop bars really aren’t made for that kind of position.
#33
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Sorry I'm a little late to the dance.
Most of my commutes are on vintage road bikes, so drop bars with older (read bigger) dimensions in terms of drop. When I converted one of them to newer components, I picked up a pretty cheap set of Deda bars in their RHM (Rapid Hand Movement) setup. I guess they are similar to modern compact drops from other brands, but I don't really know. In any case, I like the dimensions MUCH better. Riding on the drops doesn't feel nearly as far from the tops/bends as it does on my older style bars, so it encourages me to do it more often.
I recommend giving them a shot, especially since they are so cheap.
If you take a look at what Valverde is doing lately, you will see how right you are...
Edit: Just read grobly's post above and it looks like he has very good advice. He also mentioned the RHM bars from Deda, which start at like $20 on some websites. If you are worried about compatibility, you can buy a simple quill stem converter (like the one I'm using below):
Most of my commutes are on vintage road bikes, so drop bars with older (read bigger) dimensions in terms of drop. When I converted one of them to newer components, I picked up a pretty cheap set of Deda bars in their RHM (Rapid Hand Movement) setup. I guess they are similar to modern compact drops from other brands, but I don't really know. In any case, I like the dimensions MUCH better. Riding on the drops doesn't feel nearly as far from the tops/bends as it does on my older style bars, so it encourages me to do it more often.
I recommend giving them a shot, especially since they are so cheap.
Edit: Just read grobly's post above and it looks like he has very good advice. He also mentioned the RHM bars from Deda, which start at like $20 on some websites. If you are worried about compatibility, you can buy a simple quill stem converter (like the one I'm using below):
Last edited by robertorolfo; 04-18-19 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Content
#34
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I don't care for drop bars on my commuter because of the need for sudden movements to avoid pot holes, debris in the road, pedestrians who walk into the street while staring straight down at their phones, etc....
I find the flat bar gives me more control on those jerky motions than a drop bar.
But that's me.
I find the flat bar gives me more control on those jerky motions than a drop bar.
But that's me.
#37
Virgo
Thread Starter
#38
Virgo
Thread Starter
Note on above photo, the perspective is weird, the tops of the bars were more or less level with the saddle in that setup.
#39
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@robertofolfo, yes thanks. I think those bars look comfortable. And they don’t look out of place on a classic frame.
This is the bike I’d be putting them on, I don’t remember if I mentioned it earlier, been a minute since I revisited this thread.
This is the bike I’d be putting them on, I don’t remember if I mentioned it earlier, been a minute since I revisited this thread.
Those bars are TTT or one of the many Japanese copies of those TTTs. I raced a Fuji Pro in the '70s with that bend and put the TTT version on my Mooney where it stayed for decades. I've had several more copies since. There are also a number of pista (track) and semi-pista bars with similar rounds and "sloped shoulders" that I also like. (When they are deep I can sprint from a light in the drops and not bruise my forearms on those "shoulders".)
All my bikes have traditional drop bars. Wouldn't change it for commuting. I like both knowing exactly where my bike/body ends and that the package is narrow. Not fitting into a gap between cars (chosen by me or otherwise) is one of those "what ifs" I never want to research.
Ben
#40
Virgo
Thread Starter
I like those bars! And the levers (along with their placement on the bars. But I'd rotate the bars down to close to horizontal drops.
Those bars are TTT or one of the many Japanese copies of those TTTs. I raced a Fuji Pro in the '70s with that bend and put the TTT version on my Mooney where it stayed for decades. I've had several more copies since. There are also a number of pista (track) and semi-pista bars with similar rounds and "sloped shoulders" that I also like. (When they are deep I can sprint from a light in the drops and not bruise my forearms on those "shoulders".)
All my bikes have traditional drop bars. Wouldn't change it for commuting. I like both knowing exactly where my bike/body ends and that the package is narrow. Not fitting into a gap between cars (chosen by me or otherwise) is one of those "what ifs" I never want to research.
Ben
Those bars are TTT or one of the many Japanese copies of those TTTs. I raced a Fuji Pro in the '70s with that bend and put the TTT version on my Mooney where it stayed for decades. I've had several more copies since. There are also a number of pista (track) and semi-pista bars with similar rounds and "sloped shoulders" that I also like. (When they are deep I can sprint from a light in the drops and not bruise my forearms on those "shoulders".)
All my bikes have traditional drop bars. Wouldn't change it for commuting. I like both knowing exactly where my bike/body ends and that the package is narrow. Not fitting into a gap between cars (chosen by me or otherwise) is one of those "what ifs" I never want to research.
Ben
Joseph
#41
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Do you generally ride on the hoods in those setups? I really don't like riding on the hoods with vintage levers, and I don't particularly like it on modern brifters either.
#42
Virgo
Thread Starter
No, I don’t ride the hoods really at all. That’s what got me to thinking about a different bar, a modern one that’s better designed to work with ergo levers for riding on the hoods. Whatever the top part of the bar is called that slopes toward the hoods - ramps? - usually my hands are there, but sometimes on the tops and sometimes in the drops. But it really was an improvement in comfort to rotate them down. Counterintuitively for me I guess. I’m not sold on using the Tektros on this bike, they’re just better than what was on there when I got it. I think I’m gonna try the bar rotated for a few more days. It’s hard to explain, the position felt very natural on this bike. I’ve tried it on other bikes before and didn’t like it. Best I can figure is generally I’d fit a 100mm or longer stem, this bike came with an 80 and I left it on.
#43
Virgo
Thread Starter
Here’s where they ended up today after tweaking. After rotating, they seemed like they’d feel better if I lowered them a bit so I did and they did.
#44
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No, I don’t ride the hoods really at all. That’s what got me to thinking about a different bar, a modern one that’s better designed to work with ergo levers for riding on the hoods. Whatever the top part of the bar is called that slopes toward the hoods - ramps? - usually my hands are there, but sometimes on the tops and sometimes in the drops...
Anyway, I don't feel comfortable on the hoods, even bigger modern hoods, because I feel like that shifts the weight to a point that's closer to being between my thumb and index finger than my palm.
#45
GATC
I just use the dropbars my bikes have come with.
I bought the top left ones, I think they are Nitto B135. The bottom right ones are too narrow, will replace them sooner than later, but still working through general fit. The hoods farther out work better for me with the shorter top tube on that bike.
I am more choosy about flat/riser bars.
I bought the top left ones, I think they are Nitto B135. The bottom right ones are too narrow, will replace them sooner than later, but still working through general fit. The hoods farther out work better for me with the shorter top tube on that bike.
I am more choosy about flat/riser bars.
Last edited by HardyWeinberg; 05-07-19 at 12:55 PM.
#46
Intrepid Bicycle Commuter
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When I rebuilt my Motobecane Grand Jubile last year, I pretty much scrapped the entire cockpit and started over. I went with a Nitto Technomic stem, Nitto Noodle handlebar and Tektro RL341 brake levers. While I was at it, I added some Tektro RL720 cross levers for city traffic. It worked out well, but I often found myself not resting on the hoods while riding, instead using the flats or just behind the hoods, indicating that the hoods were too far out in front of me. So over the winter, I tore it all back down and installed a shorter Nitto Technomic stem. That last change made all the difference. I naturally grab for the hoods now, but can sit upright and use the cross levers when traffic gets heavy.
My largest takeaway from this was that handlebar changes aren't always necessary. A simple stem change can make a huge difference.
My largest takeaway from this was that handlebar changes aren't always necessary. A simple stem change can make a huge difference.
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#47
Virgo
Thread Starter
@AlmostGreenGuy, thanks for the info and pics, and that's a handsome bike. IIRC the hoods on those Tektros are over 1" longer than a "standard" vintage lever, so if riding the hoods is your starting/reference point then yeah it makes sense that a shorter stem would help to achieve that.
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#48
Junior Member
I find that once the bars are shoulder width, drop becomes largely irrelevant. I do prefer bars with a tighter bend and longer reach from tops to levers, as this provides more positions. I then select a stem length/height/angle that produces a comfortable aggregate riding position, as I spend time in the drops, and on the levers and tops. Some may find that bars with larger drops promote a wider variance between positions, which may be more comfortable to them, but has not been a concern to me.
#49
Virgo
Thread Starter
I find that once the bars are shoulder width, drop becomes largely irrelevant. I do prefer bars with a tighter bend and longer reach from tops to levers, as this provides more positions. I then select a stem length/height/angle that produces a comfortable aggregate riding position, as I spend time in the drops, and on the levers and tops. Some may find that bars with larger drops promote a wider variance between positions, which may be more comfortable to them, but has not been a concern to me.
The more time I spend on this bike, and the more I’ve gotten the saddle and feet dialed in, the more I like this particular bar, deep drops and long reach and all.
I’m not sure yet why it wasn’t working for me on my last bike.
Thanks for the info!
#50
Banned
I'm a little surprised by the lack of adjustable stems on these ride to really dial them in.