Another old Brit IGH build!
03-25-21, 07:22 PM
#1
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Another old Brit IGH build!
I'm working on a 1952 Rudge frame. It's an Aero Special, same as a Raleigh Super Lenton - 27" wheels, looooong skinnnnyyyy stays, lots of fork curvature, very laid back seat tube, Sturmey AW, 48/16 gearing, drop bars, Brooks saddle-ready, full straight-gauge 531 tubing. These bikes and many similar models were chosen by enthusiastic riders in the day, to get as close as practical to what the professionals and record holders (Lands' End to JoI'm trying to keep the original appearance - the "livery"I've been trying to weight-weenie it as I go along.
Current weight-weenying includes substituting a vintage TA 5-pin chainset for the original steel Raleigh Industries part. I had it installed TA 344 spindle (114.5mm), which is called for with doubles. But I don't think I can set up a double with a chain tensioner, and I don't want to add a claw. I could provide chainrings 44/30 or even 48/24, but I don't know how much wrap I can get - I'd like to keep the parts vintage even if the setup may not be original. So, MTB derailleurs will not be used. Other plans include Al seat pin, leather saddle with carbon rails (Selle AnAtomica), GB Al stem and rando bars, Super Champion and Wolber Super Champion Al rims 40/32 spokes, and an Al shell for an AM or FM IGH. Also trying to put together a set of matching Sturmey Archer wingnuts.
After I get the saddle set up I may exercise the priveledge to modernize the cockpit (short-reach or compact bars), to finalize fit.
The chainset is causing a problem now. I just installed the TA314 track BB - amazingly the French spindle fits perfectly into the UK BB and into the individualistic Raleigh Industries BB cups. Problem: with the spindle 4 mm narrower on teh drive side, (first I tried the 344 spindle which is 4 mm longer on the drive side). The little sprocket bolts are interfering with the BB shell. I either need a different period chainset, some lower profile nuts, spacers on the drive side, or to live with a chainline which is not aligned,
So, questions:
1. Were there any factory track variants on the Super Lenton and its Rudge and Humber identical siblings? If so, did they use the 5-pin design?
2. Were there any special "pin bolts" with very shallow heads, but still adequate strength? What aluminum square taper chainsets were on the market in the late 1940s and early 1950s? Or were all racing chainsets light, strong forged steel, like an FB, Duprat, or Magistroni? I think the Stronglight 49D was one of the first production Al chainsets, but what bolts did it use to enable BB clearance, chainline, and chainstay clearance?
Current weight-weenying includes substituting a vintage TA 5-pin chainset for the original steel Raleigh Industries part. I had it installed TA 344 spindle (114.5mm), which is called for with doubles. But I don't think I can set up a double with a chain tensioner, and I don't want to add a claw. I could provide chainrings 44/30 or even 48/24, but I don't know how much wrap I can get - I'd like to keep the parts vintage even if the setup may not be original. So, MTB derailleurs will not be used. Other plans include Al seat pin, leather saddle with carbon rails (Selle AnAtomica), GB Al stem and rando bars, Super Champion and Wolber Super Champion Al rims 40/32 spokes, and an Al shell for an AM or FM IGH. Also trying to put together a set of matching Sturmey Archer wingnuts.
After I get the saddle set up I may exercise the priveledge to modernize the cockpit (short-reach or compact bars), to finalize fit.
The chainset is causing a problem now. I just installed the TA314 track BB - amazingly the French spindle fits perfectly into the UK BB and into the individualistic Raleigh Industries BB cups. Problem: with the spindle 4 mm narrower on teh drive side, (first I tried the 344 spindle which is 4 mm longer on the drive side). The little sprocket bolts are interfering with the BB shell. I either need a different period chainset, some lower profile nuts, spacers on the drive side, or to live with a chainline which is not aligned,
So, questions:
1. Were there any factory track variants on the Super Lenton and its Rudge and Humber identical siblings? If so, did they use the 5-pin design?
2. Were there any special "pin bolts" with very shallow heads, but still adequate strength? What aluminum square taper chainsets were on the market in the late 1940s and early 1950s? Or were all racing chainsets light, strong forged steel, like an FB, Duprat, or Magistroni? I think the Stronglight 49D was one of the first production Al chainsets, but what bolts did it use to enable BB clearance, chainline, and chainstay clearance?
03-26-21, 05:40 AM
#2
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1. As far as I know, the early 50's Raleighs all had cranks made in-house, and I can't think of any that had the 5-pin crank-chainring interface. In the later 50's some of the higher end bikes had Williams cranks, but still none with 5 pins.
2. I'm not aware of any bolts with shallow heads. I believe Rene Herse had aluminum cranks quite early, and Stronglight 49-D as you say. For aluminum square taper cranks, I think that's all there was until the late 50's.
So I believe what you need to make the TA crank work is a longer spindle.
2. I'm not aware of any bolts with shallow heads. I believe Rene Herse had aluminum cranks quite early, and Stronglight 49-D as you say. For aluminum square taper cranks, I think that's all there was until the late 50's.
So I believe what you need to make the TA crank work is a longer spindle.
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03-26-21, 06:45 AM
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1. As far as I know, the early 50's Raleighs all had cranks made in-house, and I can't think of any that had the 5-pin crank-chainring interface. In the later 50's some of the higher end bikes had Williams cranks, but still none with 5 pins.
2. I'm not aware of any bolts with shallow heads. I believe Rene Herse had aluminum cranks quite early, and Stronglight 49-D as you say. For aluminum square taper cranks, I think that's all there was until the late 50's.
So I believe what you need to make the TA crank work is a longer spindle.
2. I'm not aware of any bolts with shallow heads. I believe Rene Herse had aluminum cranks quite early, and Stronglight 49-D as you say. For aluminum square taper cranks, I think that's all there was until the late 50's.
So I believe what you need to make the TA crank work is a longer spindle.
I also have a 49d and a spindle or two for it. I can give that one a try as well.
For those who may have built a few track bikes, single-speeds, or fixies, how important is the match of the front-rear chainlines? With my S/A wheel installed it is 42 mm at the rear, and it's 44 mm in the front with the TA. I'm worried about the bike throwing a chain. With the original steel Raleigh Industries chainset it was 42/42. When I regularly rode a vintage Brit 3-speed, I don't think I ever threw a chain.
I also have a chain question. The sprocket on the SA hub seems to be sized for a 3/16 chain, where the TA chainring seems to be swimming in that chain. That chainring seems to be intended to accept a ⅛" chain. Could the chain tend to climb a tooth and run off the "rails?"
03-26-21, 07:13 AM
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TA? French? As an 'upgrade'? Non, monsieur.
Chater-Lea. The answer is always Chater-Lea.
Chater-Lea. The answer is always Chater-Lea.
03-26-21, 12:30 PM
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way too pricey, and no rings bigger than 40 T!!
