1st hand experience from a doper...
#51
My idea of fun
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,920
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times
in
36 Posts
I believe the story. I had a teammate and we shared a room for a stage race. He brought along a box full of unmarked bottles and started to put them out on the counter. I asked him what they were and his response was don't worry about it....here try some glutamine. The dude was incredibly strong and got that way in a short period of time. He was only a cat 3, so I can imagine that at the cat 1 level it's even more prevalent.
#52
Banned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Hi,
When I was racing mucho Cat 3 races in the 1980s there were guys taking all kinds of over the counter things in broad daylight to help their performance. I always thought, if this is what they do in public, what do they do in private?
Me, I tend to believe what was written on the other forum. The guy wrote it like he was speaking it and the words flowed too well for him to be making it up. Just MHO.
When I was racing mucho Cat 3 races in the 1980s there were guys taking all kinds of over the counter things in broad daylight to help their performance. I always thought, if this is what they do in public, what do they do in private?
Me, I tend to believe what was written on the other forum. The guy wrote it like he was speaking it and the words flowed too well for him to be making it up. Just MHO.
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,910
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 327 Times
in
161 Posts
Hi,
When I was racing mucho Cat 3 races in the 1980s there were guys taking all kinds of over the counter things in broad daylight to help their performance. I always thought, if this is what they do in public, what do they do in private?
Me, I tend to believe what was written on the other forum. The guy wrote it like he was speaking it and the words flowed too well for him to be making it up. Just MHO.
When I was racing mucho Cat 3 races in the 1980s there were guys taking all kinds of over the counter things in broad daylight to help their performance. I always thought, if this is what they do in public, what do they do in private?
Me, I tend to believe what was written on the other forum. The guy wrote it like he was speaking it and the words flowed too well for him to be making it up. Just MHO.
For what it is worth, I tend to believe the guy admitting to the EPO use.
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: depends on weather
Posts: 1,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
"BY THE WAY.....in my opinion their is nothing differnet between using an altilude tent to get your crit up to 48-50% and using epo to do the same thing. BOTH methods offer an unfair advantage. Not everyone can afford an altitude tent...so it's unfair.
ALSO, altitude tents have MORE side effects than epo use so long as you don't push your crit too high with the epo use. Alitude tents make you feel tired all the time as you are sleeping in a hypoxic environment mimicing 12,000 plus feet in order to push your crit high enough to do anything."
wow. I don't agree with this statement at all. There's a big difference between an oxygen tent and blood doping. I really don't have a problem with people using oxygen tents. A pro mtb buddy uses one, and it's a pretty hilarious sight.
ALSO, altitude tents have MORE side effects than epo use so long as you don't push your crit too high with the epo use. Alitude tents make you feel tired all the time as you are sleeping in a hypoxic environment mimicing 12,000 plus feet in order to push your crit high enough to do anything."
wow. I don't agree with this statement at all. There's a big difference between an oxygen tent and blood doping. I really don't have a problem with people using oxygen tents. A pro mtb buddy uses one, and it's a pretty hilarious sight.
__________________
FOR SALE:
CAT-2-O-METER: 100%
FOR SALE:
CAT-2-O-METER: 100%
#55
Old & Getting Older Racer
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,343
Bikes: Bicycle Transportation: 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric, 2019 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
5 Posts
Just because someone uses over the counter legal supplements in public doesn't mean they would take illegal supplements privatlely. Do you think all the people that take optygen and admit it in a BF poll also take EPO?
For what it is worth, I tend to believe the guy admitting to the EPO use.
For what it is worth, I tend to believe the guy admitting to the EPO use.
Over the counter doesn't necessarily mean legal. These guys were taking cold medicines and analgesics that I'm sure had banned substances (at that time) in them. Also No-Doz was a favorite and for a while there were (I'm not sure if there are still) limits on how much caffeine you could have in your system.
I didn't mean to imply that people who take LEGAL supplements also take illegal supplements. My point was that here were a bunch of very amateur guys taking stuff (in a very open way) that was easy to get and legal by law, yet with illegal (by sanctioning body) stuff in it. I suspect that some of them (remember that they were Cat 3) were doing more than that in private.
Finally, at this level of competition there weren't and still aren't any drug tests. So you can be flying at many amateur levels of this sport, including Masters, and not have to worry about anyone checking your chemistry.
As I've noted earlier, my personal thinking is that I'm so slow that taking drugs wouldn't get me much closer to the front of the peloton.
__________________
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
Visit my blog at https://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: https://www.lightningvelo.org/
Learn about our Green Dream Home at https://www.lawville.org/
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
Visit my blog at https://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: https://www.lightningvelo.org/
Learn about our Green Dream Home at https://www.lawville.org/
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,910
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 327 Times
in
161 Posts
Hi,
Over the counter doesn't necessarily mean legal. These guys were taking cold medicines and analgesics that I'm sure had banned substances (at that time) in them. Also No-Doz was a favorite and for a while there were (I'm not sure if there are still) limits on how much caffeine you could have in your system.
I didn't mean to imply that people who take LEGAL supplements also take illegal supplements. My point was that here were a bunch of very amateur guys taking stuff (in a very open way) that was easy to get and legal by law, yet with illegal (by sanctioning body) stuff in it. I suspect that some of them (remember that they were Cat 3) were doing more than that in private.
Finally, at this level of competition there weren't and still aren't any drug tests. So you can be flying at many amateur levels of this sport, including Masters, and not have to worry about anyone checking your chemistry.
As I've noted earlier, my personal thinking is that I'm so slow that taking drugs wouldn't get me much closer to the front of the peloton.
Over the counter doesn't necessarily mean legal. These guys were taking cold medicines and analgesics that I'm sure had banned substances (at that time) in them. Also No-Doz was a favorite and for a while there were (I'm not sure if there are still) limits on how much caffeine you could have in your system.
I didn't mean to imply that people who take LEGAL supplements also take illegal supplements. My point was that here were a bunch of very amateur guys taking stuff (in a very open way) that was easy to get and legal by law, yet with illegal (by sanctioning body) stuff in it. I suspect that some of them (remember that they were Cat 3) were doing more than that in private.
Finally, at this level of competition there weren't and still aren't any drug tests. So you can be flying at many amateur levels of this sport, including Masters, and not have to worry about anyone checking your chemistry.
As I've noted earlier, my personal thinking is that I'm so slow that taking drugs wouldn't get me much closer to the front of the peloton.
OK - I am with you. I was picturing over the counter legal stuff like sport legs, optygen, protien powders etc. It is really sad that anyone would use illegal and unhealthy stuff in cat 3 and Masters races. Those people really are missing the point, in my opinion.
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Precious little is said about the long-term imapct of taking these drugs. Hair loss and clots are only the beginning. Lots of people who have used Testosterone have long term problems with everything from hearing to walking up stairs. Pride goeth before the fall.
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,941
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12182 Post(s)
Liked 1,490 Times
in
1,103 Posts
I have had prescribed steroids a couple times when I had pneumonia.
I understand now.
Let me explain, there was this guy, bodybuilder, got using steroids. It kicked into diabetes. But he was addicted and tried to keep up the bodybuilding AND the juice.
He lost one leg, then the other. But he was still on the juice, and of couse, died.
I was half dead from pneumonia. I am not exaggerrating here. Pneumonia used to
be called the gentle death.
I started taking the steroids and the next thing I know I am calling my Doc on the phone asking if I can go to the gym and work out. I was on fire. I fetl good, and I wanted to do something. If it could involve punching somebody's face in..
so much the better.
When I stopped.... I felt 80. My joints ached, I had no energy. I felt ready for a retirement home.
And all I took was a moderate dose for a short period of time. I can't imagine the withdrawal from big doses.
I still feel the temptation. Dangerous, dangerous stuff.
I understand now.
Let me explain, there was this guy, bodybuilder, got using steroids. It kicked into diabetes. But he was addicted and tried to keep up the bodybuilding AND the juice.
He lost one leg, then the other. But he was still on the juice, and of couse, died.
I was half dead from pneumonia. I am not exaggerrating here. Pneumonia used to
be called the gentle death.
I started taking the steroids and the next thing I know I am calling my Doc on the phone asking if I can go to the gym and work out. I was on fire. I fetl good, and I wanted to do something. If it could involve punching somebody's face in..
so much the better.
When I stopped.... I felt 80. My joints ached, I had no energy. I felt ready for a retirement home.
And all I took was a moderate dose for a short period of time. I can't imagine the withdrawal from big doses.
I still feel the temptation. Dangerous, dangerous stuff.
#60
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
612 Posts
A couple of things:
(a) interesting when he stated that testosterone causes hair loss. Someone a while ago brought up the fact that a disproportionate number of riders seemed to have significant thinning of their hair or went bald at quite a young age. I thought nothing of it at the time, but...
.
(a) interesting when he stated that testosterone causes hair loss. Someone a while ago brought up the fact that a disproportionate number of riders seemed to have significant thinning of their hair or went bald at quite a young age. I thought nothing of it at the time, but...
.
#61
Banned
Join Date: May 2005
Location: GA
Posts: 5,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
"BY THE WAY.....in my opinion their is nothing differnet between using an altilude tent to get your crit up to 48-50% and using epo to do the same thing. BOTH methods offer an unfair advantage. Not everyone can afford an altitude tent...so it's unfair.
ALSO, altitude tents have MORE side effects than epo use so long as you don't push your crit too high with the epo use. Alitude tents make you feel tired all the time as you are sleeping in a hypoxic environment mimicing 12,000 plus feet in order to push your crit high enough to do anything."
ALSO, altitude tents have MORE side effects than epo use so long as you don't push your crit too high with the epo use. Alitude tents make you feel tired all the time as you are sleeping in a hypoxic environment mimicing 12,000 plus feet in order to push your crit high enough to do anything."
Can you really not see how one of these is a legitimate training tool just like rollers and the other is a chemical aid?
#62
Blast from the Past
An altitude tent completely simulates the experience of training and living at altitude with all the benefits and drawbacks that that entails. Higher hemocrit but less recovery and therefore less ability to train hard especially at first. EPO goes inside cells and effects what they do counteracting ones bodies natural chemistry without any performance drawbacks.
Can you really not see how one of these is a legitimate training tool just like rollers and the other is a chemical aid?
Can you really not see how one of these is a legitimate training tool just like rollers and the other is a chemical aid?
Hypothetical; someone come up with a way to electrically stimulate a specific area in the brain, producing the same result, Is that fair game or not?
#63
Burning Matches.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,714
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4077 Post(s)
Liked 1,002 Times
in
676 Posts
The major difference I see between an altitude tent and EPO is that a tent is legal under the competition's rules. So is training at altitude, or living at altitude.
#64
Blast from the Past
I agree that one is not "cheating" and the other is, my question was why? You are gaining an advantage by tricking your physiology, in one case using a tent and in the other a chemical.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Californ-aye-ay
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ahem, *okay*...all this doping talk has been eating away at me...making me feel more and more guilty! i guess it's time I spill the beans about my own doping experiences:
It seemed innocent enough..I was at my friend Cliff's house just shootin the breeze when he breaks out this big honkin BONG! I scowl.."is this legal" and he says "dont worry about it!"..he throws in some herb and we dust a few bowls....Gawd! I know it was wrong, but the pressure of competition is just so intense...at the CAT5 ranks, any edge can mean going from a nobody to not-quite-a-nobody....It's just so hard to explain.....curiously, my performance has not improved one bit..Dang!
It seemed innocent enough..I was at my friend Cliff's house just shootin the breeze when he breaks out this big honkin BONG! I scowl.."is this legal" and he says "dont worry about it!"..he throws in some herb and we dust a few bowls....Gawd! I know it was wrong, but the pressure of competition is just so intense...at the CAT5 ranks, any edge can mean going from a nobody to not-quite-a-nobody....It's just so hard to explain.....curiously, my performance has not improved one bit..Dang!
Last edited by cacatfish; 08-03-07 at 07:13 PM.
#66
Burning Matches.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,714
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4077 Post(s)
Liked 1,002 Times
in
676 Posts
Rider safety. Fan support. Laws in the majority of developed countries. How's that?
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
In my opinion it comes down to safety, availability to all competitors and 'naturalness'. Since a tent simulates living at altitude, it's possible to do naturally.
#68
Blast from the Past
Originally Posted by tfro
Couldn't you say that riding your bike is tricking (or maybe changing is a better word) your physiology?
In my opinion it comes down to safety, availability to all competitors and 'naturalness'. Since a tent simulates living at altitude, it's possible to do naturally.
In my opinion it comes down to safety, availability to all competitors and 'naturalness'. Since a tent simulates living at altitude, it's possible to do naturally.
Last edited by Voodoo76; 08-03-07 at 09:21 PM. Reason: fixed quote
#69
SilentRider
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,383
Bikes: Trek Madone SLR 7, Giant TCR Advanced Pro, Trek Domane SLR, Trek Emonda SLR Project One (x2), custom Bingham Built Titanium road bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
fascinating stuff
#70
cracked
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Middletown, CT, USA
Posts: 68
Bikes: 07 Felt F5C, 93 Bridgeston MB-3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
hmmm... i thought cycling was a for-profit sport, just like u.s. and euro football, etc.
so, follow the money to see why there are certain rules.
or am i just cynical?
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 539
Bikes: No bike at the moment; In process of building it.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've shot up massive amounts of EPO...
...But I was on dialysis.
So THERE!
...But I was on dialysis.
So THERE!
#73
Beyawwww
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northeast
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Doping is stupidity. I can understand that the true pros might be tempted because their dreams and goals revolve around being the fatest and quickest. I'm sure it's devastating to give it 110% and still fail. However, if you're racing in the amateur ranks, it's just dumb. I live and breathe biking, but there is no way in hell I would ever consider doping.
#74
Banned
Join Date: May 2005
Location: GA
Posts: 5,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I struggle to see the difference here, artificial means is artificial means. So I use a machine to trick my body chemistry rather than a chemical. In either case I'm not using training or hard work to improve my performance.
Hypothetical; someone come up with a way to electrically stimulate a specific area in the brain, producing the same result, Is that fair game or not?
Hypothetical; someone come up with a way to electrically stimulate a specific area in the brain, producing the same result, Is that fair game or not?
By contrast the EPO just alters your natural chemistry so you can carry more blood. No hard work, no training.
Is this really so hard to understand? You've never been in an altitude tent have you? Have you ever even spend time at altitude? It's just like that.
#75
elitist jerk
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Blow - hio
Posts: 4,187
Bikes: CAAD9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The vast majority of the "rednecks" (farmers, crop scientists, professors) in C-U are most certainly not white trash.
There is PLENTY of white trash in urban areas. Are they then rednecks by the associative property, despite not having the red neck (sunburn from long hours toiling in fields) necessary to be deemed a proper redneck?
There is PLENTY of white trash in urban areas. Are they then rednecks by the associative property, despite not having the red neck (sunburn from long hours toiling in fields) necessary to be deemed a proper redneck?
Last edited by daytonian; 08-05-07 at 02:31 PM.