kensuf

Pathetic.

El Diablo Rojo

Sadly I it believe too.

cmh

Just because someone uses over the counter legal supplements in public doesn't mean they would take illegal supplements privatlely. Do you think all the people that take optygen and admit it in a BF poll also take EPO?

For what it is worth, I tend to believe the guy admitting to the EPO use.

brianallan

"BY THE WAY.....in my opinion their is nothing differnet between using an altilude tent to get your crit up to 48-50% and using epo to do the same thing. BOTH methods offer an unfair advantage. Not everyone can afford an altitude tent...so it's unfair.
ALSO, altitude tents have MORE side effects than epo use so long as you don't push your crit too high with the epo use. Alitude tents make you feel tired all the time as you are sleeping in a hypoxic environment mimicing 12,000 plus feet in order to push your crit high enough to do anything."

wow. I don't agree with this statement at all. There's a big difference between an oxygen tent and blood doping. I really don't have a problem with people using oxygen tents. A pro mtb buddy uses one, and it's a pretty hilarious sight.

Cleave

Hi,

Over the counter doesn't necessarily mean legal. These guys were taking cold medicines and analgesics that I'm sure had banned substances (at that time) in them. Also No-Doz was a favorite and for a while there were (I'm not sure if there are still) limits on how much caffeine you could have in your system.

I didn't mean to imply that people who take LEGAL supplements also take illegal supplements. My point was that here were a bunch of very amateur guys taking stuff (in a very open way) that was easy to get and legal by law, yet with illegal (by sanctioning body) stuff in it. I suspect that some of them (remember that they were Cat 3) were doing more than that in private.

Finally, at this level of competition there weren't and still aren't any drug tests. So you can be flying at many amateur levels of this sport, including Masters, and not have to worry about anyone checking your chemistry.

As I've noted earlier, my personal thinking is that I'm so slow that taking drugs wouldn't get me much closer to the front of the peloton.

ggg300

"Bros" that looks like a lot of this


funny

cmh

OK - I am with you. I was picturing over the counter legal stuff like sport legs, optygen, protien powders etc. It is really sad that anyone would use illegal and unhealthy stuff in cat 3 and Masters races. Those people really are missing the point, in my opinion.

ri_us

Precious little is said about the long-term imapct of taking these drugs. Hair loss and clots are only the beginning. Lots of people who have used Testosterone have long term problems with everything from hearing to walking up stairs. Pride goeth before the fall.

late

I have had prescribed steroids a couple times when I had pneumonia.
I understand now.

Let me explain, there was this guy, bodybuilder, got using steroids. It kicked into diabetes. But he was addicted and tried to keep up the bodybuilding AND the juice.
He lost one leg, then the other. But he was still on the juice, and of couse, died.

I was half dead from pneumonia. I am not exaggerrating here. Pneumonia used to
be called the gentle death.

I started taking the steroids and the next thing I know I am calling my Doc on the phone asking if I can go to the gym and work out. I was on fire. I fetl good, and I wanted to do something. If it could involve punching somebody's face in..
so much the better.

When I stopped.... I felt 80. My joints ached, I had no energy. I felt ready for a retirement home.

And all I took was a moderate dose for a short period of time. I can't imagine the withdrawal from big doses.

I still feel the temptation. Dangerous, dangerous stuff.

Homebrew01

My hair started thinning when I was in my late 20s. I may be a dope, but I'm not a doper !! Maybe too much riding causes hair loss !!

dutret

An altitude tent completely simulates the experience of training and living at altitude with all the benefits and drawbacks that that entails. Higher hemocrit but less recovery and therefore less ability to train hard especially at first. EPO goes inside cells and effects what they do counteracting ones bodies natural chemistry without any performance drawbacks.

Can you really not see how one of these is a legitimate training tool just like rollers and the other is a chemical aid?

Voodoo76

I struggle to see the difference here, artificial means is artificial means. So I use a machine to trick my body chemistry rather than a chemical. In either case I'm not using training or hard work to improve my performance.

Hypothetical; someone come up with a way to electrically stimulate a specific area in the brain, producing the same result, Is that fair game or not?

ElJamoquio

The major difference I see between an altitude tent and EPO is that a tent is legal under the competition's rules. So is training at altitude, or living at altitude.

Voodoo76

I agree that one is not "cheating" and the other is, my question was why? You are gaining an advantage by tricking your physiology, in one case using a tent and in the other a chemical.

cacatfish

Ahem, *okay*...all this doping talk has been eating away at me...making me feel more and more guilty! i guess it's time I spill the beans about my own doping experiences:

It seemed innocent enough..I was at my friend Cliff's house just shootin the breeze when he breaks out this big honkin BONG! I scowl.."is this legal" and he says "dont worry about it!"..he throws in some herb and we dust a few bowls....Gawd! I know it was wrong, but the pressure of competition is just so intense...at the CAT5 ranks, any edge can mean going from a nobody to not-quite-a-nobody....It's just so hard to explain.....curiously, my performance has not improved one bit..Dang!

ElJamoquio

You might as well ask - Why are the rules the rules?

Rider safety. Fan support. Laws in the majority of developed countries. How's that?

tfro

Couldn't you say that riding your bike is tricking (or maybe changing is a better word) your physiology?

In my opinion it comes down to safety, availability to all competitors and 'naturalness'. Since a tent simulates living at altitude, it's possible to do naturally.

Voodoo76

Yea I always ask why are the rules the rules. To do otherwise is un-american

Yes, but by riding it is thru your own hard work not some artificial means (physical or chemical). Available to all competitors? What if I have a naturally low hematocrit, or test level? I work just as hard as my competitors but the results arn't as "available" to me.

FrankBattle 

fascinating stuff

musician

hmmm... i thought cycling was a for-profit sport, just like u.s. and euro football, etc.

so, follow the money to see why there are certain rules.

or am i just cynical?

Briareos

I've shot up massive amounts of EPO...

...But I was on dialysis.

So THERE!

ElJamoquio

I.e., fan support. A lot of fans, myself included, would be turned off if there wasn't any doping controls.

yetti

Doping is stupidity. I can understand that the true pros might be tempted because their dreams and goals revolve around being the fatest and quickest. I'm sure it's devastating to give it 110% and still fail. However, if you're racing in the amateur ranks, it's just dumb. I live and breathe biking, but there is no way in hell I would ever consider doping.

dutret

the altitude test is equivalent to someone who lives in alaska using a trainer indoors instead of riding outside. They are mimicing the training they would be doing in a warmer clime through mechanical means. There is nothing artificial about there training though. Same with the tent all the pain, hard work and cost of training at altitude are perfectly recreated just in a different local without changing your basic chemistry. That's what you confused as a "side effect".

By contrast the EPO just alters your natural chemistry so you can carry more blood. No hard work, no training.

Is this really so hard to understand? You've never been in an altitude tent have you? Have you ever even spend time at altitude? It's just like that.

daytonian

The state of Ohio is exempt from this statement.