mrfreezesdefy3

So I figure I'd start a new thread ,I posted an ultegra thread yesterday but I'm confused .so here goes
I'm 49 at 270lbs. Yea I know ,and I got pride ,,,,last yr I started biking to drop weight 70 lbs so far
I own an 2015 giant defy 3. It currently has 9 speed 11\32 rear cassette with an 34\50 front crank I dropped my factory wheelset and upgraded to HED belgium's with dt swiss disc ready hubs , I am now junking my Shimano sora shifters to an 6800 ultegra shifter set up with new derailers etc but here lies my problem, I ride an avg of 17 to 18 mph usually we ride 25 miles at 900 ft gain up to 36 to 65 miles at 2200 ft gain since upgrading to my hed belgium's my friends have seen the difference and also upgraded. The group bikes range from tarmac pro to defy 3 and defy 1
I'm not gonna buy a new bike but recently my buddies have gone to an 39\52 crank ,since I'm going to upgrade my shifters and up grade to an 11 speed rear cassette too, its time to make a change on my front crank as well
So I WAS thinking 39\52 or 39\53 but after doing much googling I'm thinking about a 52\36 ,,, thoughts????
My buddies all ride the big crank on most hills where as I the old man by 8 yrs drop to my small crank and spin with less effort as we approach 3\4 mark on a hill they have passed me but at 7\8 plus of the hill by the crest they are gassed an as I pass them I shift to my big crank n ease on by , I'm wanting a leg up on them mechanically. Thoughts ???? It's gotten to be more competitive than a weight loss project now , as some times I get passed my much younger guys of groups doing 70 miles at 20 mph avg ,I can hang with them on flats and small hills but I get dropped severely on big gain hills ,

I WANT IN .
Did I say pride!!!!earlier in my post ??? I used to be in the back of the pack on our group rides but now I'm in the front couple of riders I want to be #1 again , so until I upgrade to a better bike later down the rd what mechanically can I do to improve my bike while I'm spending the jack on this last upgrade , thanks in advance for your answers

simot

Ride more, work hard, eat less(?).

I don't think upgrading to a better groupset will make you any faster, dropping more weight will definitely do so, specially on the climbs. Only reason to upgrade in my opinion is if the groupset is dying/malfunctioning. 11/32 cassette is more than enough to climb anything with a 34 on the front.

Some guys in my group don't even have that range of gears running old sora/tiagra and they drop others with higher end groupsets running 105/ultegra.

Gotta get to your ideal weight first before thinking of upgrading/saving grams off the bike. Would you rather spend 500-1000 bucks to save 1kilo off the bike, or just ride more and get it off of you?

K.Katso

It doesn't sound like a bigger chainring is the answer if you are passing them on the climbs with gas left in the tank when you get to the top.

mrfreezesdefy3

I ride 300 to 400 miles a month with 15,000 to 20,000 ft gain . That's all my schedule allows for , and I'm still looking to drop 50 lbs more

mrfreezesdefy3

I agree but before I bought my new wheelset it was all I could do to stay at 15 to 16 avg
After the wheelset was put on my avg went to 17-18 .if I rode less it wasn't such a workout . I saw the difference in my wheelset ,and know gears make a difference on hills and struggling on it , I still pass them on the top but I feel spun out ,n almost gassed but I still pass them ,just looking for an advantage

Sy Reene

Then shift to a harder gear and don't spin out. The bigger chainrings are effectively just forcing you to harder gears which you can do yourself shifting the gears you have. You really only need consider a different crankset if you are losing your group on the downhills and you can't spin fast enough in your highest gear (50/11) to keep up. This would occur at somewhere north of 30mph.

mrfreezesdefy3

I guess I miss spoke ,, with my weight I have no problem going down the hills as a matter of fact I pass even the lightest riders who are faster , I'm RARELY not in 1st place on the down hill sprints it's the upwards climb that they pass me on about 5\8 of the way on . But as their on their big crank and after 5\8 of the way up I'm changing down to my 34 smaller front crank n really start spinning then usually all the while steadily dropping to an easier gear in the back , it's just their gassed at the top n I'm almost gassed but I've got enough to dig deep n switch to the big 50 in the front and roll on over past them or battle for 1st
Maybe I'm not spun out just exhausted at the crest . But it's pride
I've also stopped looking up to the hill n look straight down at my front tire n concentrate on killing my spin modeand not who's in front I'm wanting to blow by , and that has helped my crest attack lately

caloso

From your description, it doesn't seem that the differences between 50/34, 52/36, and 53/39 are going to have any effect on your climbing.

kkapdolee

It doesn't sound like you need a 53 - 11 combo as you're already #1 on downhills.
It doesn't sound like you need a 34 - 32 combo as the hills aren't super steep (other guys using a 53 front uphill).
It doesn't sound like you are in need of any missing gear ratios in between your current 50 - 11 and 34 - 32 combos so don't need a narrower range cassette.
Also, don't need a 53/39 or 52/39 crank. Unless there is some magical gear that you don't have now that fits your uphill climbing just right for your optimal cadence somehow, changing the crank or cassette won't help.

If your cranks and cassettes are Sora, switching to 5800 or 6800 with the same gears may very slightly increase your speed due to slightly lighter weight.
If the change of wheels had that much effect on your average speed, perhaps switching to an even lighter set of wheels might give you the most advantage but given that you just switched wheels, you probably don't want to buy another set.

Sounds like you have come a long way losing 70lbs and coming from the back of the group to #1 or 2. Congrats on that. As much as I wish there was an easy solution for you right now, I think the best you can do is just continue your hard work. Continue losing weight will definitely help in uphills.

Homebrew01

Get the gearing that fits your needs: Lowest needed for the hills, and highest desired for downhill. If you never use your lowest gears, then get a tighter cassette when it's time to change.
But overall, it's not about the equipment. It's motivation, learning to ride efficiently, diet etc ...

andr0id

Crazy how that works....

I was riding Ultegra shifters in Feb. I put on Dura Ace shifters in Aug.
I compared my Aug speed to my Feb speed and I was faster.
Conclusion: Must have been the shifters, certainly couldn't have been all the hours I'd ridden between Feb and Aug.

Wilfred Laurier

Changing to lightweight carbon wheels is probably one of the only changes you can make that will give a measurable advantage. Changing shifters and derailleurs will not make any difference whatsoever unless your current stuff is damaged or worn out, and the change you are suggesting for your gear ratios are likely to be a net negative. From the way you describe it, unless your rides end half way up the hill, you have more suitable equipment (and/or are using it in a smarter way) than your riding buddies.

hochflynn

First of all, if you are going to switch to an 11 speed, you'll need to change many of the other components (can't simply mix and match components with an 11 speed). Check out Ribble (English site), they have amazingly low prices for a groupo. Delivery should be around 2 weeks or less.
Regarding crank and cassette, like others have mentioned, the weight loss will be much more of a factor in getting uphill than the components, assuming you have the right gearing. If you aren't currently going into your easiest gears when the going gets tough, a 52/36 should work fine, as might an 11/28. IMHO, health and fitness should come first, and getting better competitively will follow naturally. As you continue to lose weight you should be able to rely a bit less and less on your easier gears over time.

rms13

This. I want to say I spin out in 50/11 somewhere around 37-38 mph on descendents. Also at OP weight he should be flying past group on downhils. I have a friend about the same size and he flies past everyone on descents because of his weight

Personally I had a bike with 53/39 and 11/28 and climbing sucked and I found I stayed in the 39 ring a lot of the time on flats. I would stick with compact crank unless in a completely flat area or if you are an extremely fit racer

Sy Reene

Indeed maybe the OP could consider installing a CX crankset of 36/46. He seems to lament having to switch out of the big ring. Not sure a 46 big ring would do the trick though.

Dan333SP

How tall are you?

Even though the HED wheels you switched to are great wheels, they aren't the reason you went from averaging 15ish to 17ish, it was your conditioning and weight loss. The only way the old wheels cost you that much time is if they were so flexy with your weight that they were rubbing hard on the brakes every time you got out of the saddle or something.

Just do a search on this forum about the marginal performance gains for various upgrades. If you want a new group, great, the shift feel is excellent, but it's not going to make you any faster unless you need a lower or taller gear than what you have now and it sounds like that isn't an issue.

I don't see the point in going to a standard or mid-compact crank. Compacts are IMO fine for 95% of riders. I've never spun out with a 50/34 and a 12-26, even with hilly races that involve long descents. I can spin up to around 38mph, but I'm getting into an aero tuck and letting gravity do its work above 35 or so anyway, and I've never encountered a situation where I have to bridge to another group at 40+ mph which is where a 53/11 would be useful.

It will be nice to eventually switch to disc brakes for you if that's the intent, though. If you're doing 40mph descents at 270 lbs you are putting a lot of heat into the rims when you slow. They're not carbon so they aren't going to spontaneously de-laminate, but I still think discs would give you a more secure and consistent braking feel. Keep that switch in mind if you do change shifters, you'd need specific hydro levers to go with your calipers.

UnfilteredDregs

If they're on the "Big Crank," then you ain't really riding hills.

...and congrats on the weight loss.

simot

Your best course right now is to save your money, keep working out and you'll get better in no time. Once you loose all the extra weight, you can reward yourself with a nicer groupset. Who knows, maybe a whole next level bike?

You'll get disappointed if you buy the good, expensive stuff and still see the same numbers.

mrfreezesdefy3

im 6' 1" I usually get to 34 to 41 mph on down hills , I dont regret getting off the big crank when I need to, bought
ultegra 6800 shifters with new derailers an 11 speed 11\32 cassette and ultegra 36\52t crank be here mon

rm -rf

Sounds like you are doing okay right now. I'd say the other riders aren't climbing optimally in their big ring. Some riders don't like to shift the front.

Gearing options
One or two of the local riders don't have the typical low gears that are standard these days. They have a close racing cluster on the back, maybe 11-23. They have a very low cadence on climbs, since they can't spin. That's a good setup for flat areas, not so good for steeper hill climbs.

Your info shows you live in Georgia. I assume you'll do hilly rides at times.

You have 50/34 and 9 speed 11-32 on the back. That's a nice setup for steep climbing, but that means a lot bigger jumps between gears in the middle.



If I'm trying to stay with a fast group ride, I like to have small shifts at our usual road speeds, so I can get just the right cadence. Some cassettes have closer gaps in the 15 to 20 mph range (Shimano 11-28), and large gaps between 20 and 25. Others (Sram 11-28) are the opposite.

You probably have 11 12 14 16 18 21 24 28 32 cogs.
From Mike Sherman's Gear Calculator with your setup:



The 9 speed 12-27 is a little better.



Upgrading to 11-speed Shimano
All these Mike Sherman Gear Calculator links pop up a notice that the URL has the settings, so you can bookmark that combination. And all the charts change on the fly as you change gear or cadences.

A lot depends on your typical fast group ride speeds, and what kind of hills you ride.

You have two choices on the typical 11-28 cassette:
11 12 13 14 15 17 19 21 23 25 28 Shimano (better at 15-20 mph).
The Mike Sherman setup for Shimano 11-28

11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 22 25 28 Sram (better at 20-25 mph).
The Mike Sherman setup for Sram 11-28.

If you rarely do any fairly steep climbs, the 12-25 is very nice on flat rides. It includes a straight block from 12-19. Lots of close gears from 17 to 25 mph. I'd love to use this, but I have too many hills.
12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25 Shimano
The Mike Sherman setup for 12-25.


UPDATE-- I see you ordered already. Why ask for help then? You can always get a second cassette for different conditions. You'll need a cassette tool and a chain whip to change them out.

Here's the new 36/52 11-32 to compare. You get lower gears for steep hills but lose the closer gear shifts on the flats.

The 52/36 chainrings move your shift points up by about a half shift. That's useful for some riders to avoid an occasional front shift by extending the top range a little.

(I edited your post for readability. Paragraph breaks and punctuation help a lot. Good job on the weight loss, that's hard.)

K.Katso

Don't try to be a hero by going 53/39 just because the numbers are bigger. It sounds like a compact is good for you, and climbing faster is way more important than looking cooler. At least to most serious riders anyway. Spend your money somewhere else and keep training.

caloso

OP: You might find this helpful: HTML5 Gear Calculator
Plug in your current set up and compare it to the others you're considering.

Dan333SP

He picked his gears already. Enjoy the new parts! 52/36 and 11/32 gives you a pretty huge range so you'll be fine.

Dan333SP

I know you've lost a ton of weight already and congrats, that must have taken a ton of hard work. That said, if you're 6'1" IMO you shouldn't "just" shoot for 220 and call it a day, given enough time you could get well below 200 and still be at a healthy weight, plus you'd rocket past your same friends on the climb. No need to get to pro-level skinny, but it never hurts to set lofty goals. I'm 6'3" and have floated between 170 and 180 for the last 5 years, I'm thin but no one would say I'm unhealthy looking (except my wife when she's making fun of cyclists), and it's remarkable how much easier climbing is when you drop just 5 lbs.

Just my 2 cents, no matter what you've already made great progress and you'll love the new parts.

fietsbob

11t makes even a 48t chainring high enough .. 4.36:1